Episode 7: DISC Helps w/ Gatekeepers during Cold Calls.

 

John

Welcome to the show everyone. On this episode we talked about gatekeepers. And be aware, this is a Friday night episode. So we are drinking not water in these cups if you’re watching us on YouTube. The thing that I love so much about this episode is you really hear how different the D, the I, the S, and the C deal with gatekeepers. And sometimes it’s not about getting past them. It’s about relating to them, making them part of your sales process. Things I want you to take away. Listen to how Nan talks about how she treats gatekeepers, because it’s radically different from how Clint and Al deal with them, and really even how I deal with them. Because if you’re listening really closely, you’re going to see me slide to that S quadrant. That way, I can have the best percentage possible about working with the gatekeeper to get to the decision maker. Picking any value out of this, please share it with someone who’s struggling with gatekeepers. Follow us on social media. Everything is at Sales Throwdown. If you’re watching us on YouTube, click that subscribe button. You’re welcome.

Announcer

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main event. In the D corner we have Clint The Cleaver Bigelow. In the I corner, we have Al The Gambler, Daniel. In the corner, we have Nan the Promoter Fallman in the C corner. We have John Small Mountain Hill.

Let’s get ready to Throwdown!

John

Welcome to the show everybody

Al

Welcome back.

John

I’m already laughing because we kind of we kind of started before we started.

Clint

Our pregame.

Nannette

We’ve been talking for an hour, an hour.

John

Let’s talk about why we’re here tonight. Okay, talking about how to get or deal with gatekeepers.

Nannette

What are gatekeepers?

John

Alright, so let’s talk about that, right? Because I already love the fact that Clint is talking about how you have to get past them. Right as like an obstacle move around, right? My approach is different. I’m sure Nan’s approach is different. And the gatekeeper is the person who is at that front desk, who the barrier between you and the decision maker.

Al

Or, you know, the Secretary to the C suite. And that’s probably the wrong word to use the administrative assistant, I’m already in trouble. We’re going to talk about that a little bit.

John

Because there’s a difference between the the admin and the right hand person in the gatekeeper who’s just there to like, push you away. For today only be good because you have an admin, Al, who’s your right hand person? If they don’t make nice with Melissa, who’s your admin? They’re never getting the you? Probably not? Yeah,

Clint

Yeah, sure. We often talk about decision makers being at the top of the food chain, sometimes, for sure. They’re right at the bottom, and they’re the first person you deal with, first step in the roadblock there.

John

Yeah. So I’m curious from from Al’s point of view, because he has a gatekeeper. And someone who has worked with Al for a very long time, right. You know, you said on…

Al

First employee I ever hired.

Hired her before I could feed myself.

John

That’s amazing, right. I love that because…

Al

24 years.

John

I couldn’t put up with you for that long. If I’m being really honest about it.

Al

You don’t have to.

Clint

To be honest, I don’t like doing it for the two hours that we’re here.

John

And only one hour ends up on tape for everybody else.

Al

Before we go any further, I want to give a shout out to Naomi, the girl who cut my hair today.

John

Oh my god. If you’re watching this on YouTube.

Al

How good does this look, man?

Clint

Wait, did she cut your hair or hairs? I’m always confused about that.

Al

Well, you know, when she runs her fingers through it not in a sexual way. It’s bald up there.

Nannette

Alright, enough about you.

Al

Naomi works up at the Boardroom in South Lake. So if any cool cats want to run up there and get a haircut that, hit that, and um…

Clint

John needs to go tomorrow.

Al

Give a shout out for sales podcast. I don’t think you get a discount just yet. But we’re working on it anyway.

John

South Lake is in North Texas and DFW area. If you’re not from here…

Al

Get on a plane, we got an airport.

John

Bigger than the island of Manhattan, everybody. So back to gatekeepers. Talk about them a little bit. Yeah. Because Al’s gatekeeper is the anomaly, right? They are the they’re the right hand, right, you have got to show value to this person. If she’s ever going to schedule an appointment, let you talk to Al, anything else like that. That’s not the normal case, though. Al’s got something to say.

Al

But she is bought into the benefit that we don’t do it alone, right that we do need vendors, we need some outside support that we want to hear a little bit about what you have to offer that may be of benefit to us. So it’s not that she shuts everybody down. Because she interviews plenty of people. Right? It. I guess it’s kind of interesting that you brought that up because I always, when you said gatekeeper, I think about the people that I face as I go out and try to get into offices. I don’t think I have my own which is a new revolution. Like I’m sitting right here, like a light bulb went on. I’ve got one. Yeah, stumbled on that word. That was pre game coming out. But yeah, you’re right. I do have a gatekeeper. And she does a damn good job. She always has.

John

So let me ask you this question. So how long was it until she was good at letting the right people through?

Al

So there’s an interesting story. So this is when we had a clinic, she’s sitting at the front desk, I’m back there doing some notes, I’d seen a patient or two and straight hallway back to different areas where you could see patients or do x rays do all that kind of stuff. And I here at the front desk, hey, you can’t go back there. And then I hear a man’s voice. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. And I realized somebody has just marched right past her. So I step out into the singular hallway that leads back to the front door in the waiting room. And there’s a guy coming up, and I say, Hey, MF, you better get out of this office before I get to you. And he turns and runs, runs, I forgot all about this, runs with something is in his hand. And Melissa’s eyes are this big like saucers, I I’m walking, I’m not running, but he’s running. I’m walking. So he beats me to the front door and out the door he goes. And she meets me and she goes, that was just a sales guy. I’m like, I mean, I think I mean, yeah, I did.

John

How long ago was this if you had to ballpark it?

Al

21 years ago, 21 years ago. Yeah, I was much younger and a little, little, a little more reckless. Now I’m still reckless.

Yeah, that’s still.

Nannette

Complete reckless.

John

So Melissa is the outlier there, right? You know, if you’re dealing with the executive suite, you might run into people like Melissa, who you got to make nice with you got to show them some value, right? They know the pains, those pain points that you’re trying to address with the eventual decision maker. What we’re really trying to talk about is the other type of gatekeeper right and Melissa is not even really a gatekeeper.

Al

Not any longer, but she was at one time.

John

You know, the average gatekeeper. And this is an important point. They’re not there to turn you away for forever. They’re, they’re there to turn you away for today. And that’s an important point to talk about. Clint is rolling his eyes. Oh, man, that never happens.

Clint

I got some shit today about it. Nah, good point.

John

So in my world, I don’t have to deal with gatekeepers very often anymore. When I when I worked for Al, I had to deal with a lot of gatekeepers, right. That front desk of Yeah, sure. If you want to bring in lunch, just go ahead and write when you want to come in. We’re booked for the next seven months. So just go ahead and put it on the calendar. Hope you were remember kind of thing. But I don’t really have to do that deal with that very much anymore. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on it. But I’m curious for Nan specifically, how do you deal with gatekeeper?

Nannette

Why Nan specifically?

John

Well, because you deal with it the most probably.

Nannette

Okay, so it’s gonna sound so S but that’s okay. I just really listening to y’all. I think now why it sounds to me that y’all think this person is less than I am. And I’m thinking when there’s just the same they’re a person doing their job just like I am. And I and I carry that on, even to the doctors I’m calling on even the neurosurgeon, you know, the big guys, because I, I’m not better than them. And I know this sounds so blooming corny, but I’m just, I’m not better than them. They have a mood. I need to look at their mood. First of all, I need to come in with a good mood. It doesn’t matter if, sorry, John, but it doesn’t matter if my dog died.

Clint

Oh my god, too soon!

Picking at an open wound.

Nannette

I’m sorry, baby. I’m sorry…

Clint

More like hashtag TeamD.

Nannette

I’m just saying, you know, bad things happen to everyone. So quit acting like you are like walking in there like all hoity toity, and you’re all wonderful. They have a life too that they’ve had to deal with.

Al

Wait, wait a second. But ok, now fair enough. But what about the stupid bitch that’s just like in your face and you’re like, look? How about a conversation instead of you before you throw me out the front door?

Nannette

So I’m going to address that.

Al

Like your business doesn’t deal with anybody but internal people? I mean, stop.

Clint

Can I say that? My thought is that, that’s probably…

Nannette

I got shut down for niceness.

John

I don’t think you got shut down. I think…

Nannette

And I really feel this way.

Clint

That’s your first sell. Right? It’s a sell of many to get through the door. If that’s truly a gatekeeper that has been probably instructed by the C-level people to close you out as a outside sales rep. To come in that door. I would say most of them are are instructed to say okay, if they don’t have an appointment, if they didn’t call ahead, if we’re not aware, those people get turned away.

Nannette

Thank you, Clint. So my point was before, I know y’all didn’t get to hear it, because somebody interjected his emotion. But my point is that everyone has feelings. And everyone is there’s something going on in everyone’s life. And if you go in, and just act like you’re all that, do you think that’s going to get you anywhere? And are you going to walk down the hall going, I don’t need to listen to you. And then that How did that work? That guy? So you’ve got to be you have to be mindful of what’s going on with the other person that you’re dealing with?

Al

Can I ask you a question?

Nannette

Please do, sir.

Al

So you just naturally bring your personal life to your job to create misery for other people? Oh, no, sorry, I’m having a bad day. So I need to like f your day up too. Let’s just spread this ill will. Let’s just spread this discontent.

Nannette

You’ve got to let me share this. No, but okay, so if you walk in with anger, frustration, irritation.

Al

I won’t be irritated if you’re irritated. I woke up in a happy mood. I usually do.

Nannette

That doesn’t make any sense. Dr. Daniel, okay, so you really can you can predict what that person’s gonna do?

Al

I can’t predict anything.

Nannette

Exactly. So quit talking for just a moment. And all I’m trying to tell you is there is actually you will create whatever you bring to that person. If you go in with a freakin attitude, you will get attitude back.

John

Yeah, I love that actually.

Clint

I do too. Thanks for interrupting hashtagTeam I there for 20 minutes just to prove that point.

John

Absolutely. If you’re watching on on YouTube, check out these sweet cups. They got our logo on the front. They got our teams on the back. TeamC, best team.

John

Yeah, ice water. you know because I don’t think that anybody other than D’s and Clint see gatekeepers as…

Nannette

D’s and Clint? That’s the same thing.

John

Exactly. Right. Well, I’m kinda I’m eliminating, right.

Clint

I’m probably a little bit higher than then the rest of the D’s.

John

Why is it always a competition?

Clint

Cuz you got to, I don’t know, it’s just my nature.

John

Because like when I started in b2b for Al, I didn’t. I was like, oh, man, gatekeepers. Okay, cool. I can I can work with this. I can figure this out. And then eventually, it became the frustration and it eventually became this thing keeping me between me and my task. Yeah. And so that’s where my…

Clint

Imagine that, you put it in your process.

John

Of course I did.

Al

Okay, here’s, here’s my thought on that, because they have a struggle too, they have a task too. So you said they keep me between me and my tasks. We know what their task is.

Clint

To block you out.

Yeah. Well, not as… No, hold on. But they also have other things that they do, they answer phones a lot of times.

Clint

They’re the busiest people in the office.

Al

A lot of times they are.

Nannette

I don’t think that, everyone’s busy.

John

Oh, hold on. Hold on.

Clint

Did you really think that one through?

Nannette

I really do think that.

Al

They don’t do anything?

Nannette

No, I think they do, I think…

Al

Except wait for salesman to come in and like agitate them?

Nannette

I think everyone is doing a lot of crap. That’s why I laugh when people go, I’m really too busy. I’m like, so is everyone.

Clint

Let me walk you through my office at 230 on a Friday.

John

Is there anybody there?

Clint

No!

John

This is slightly off topic. But when I’m out networking, and someone is just talking about how busy they are, all I’m looking, all I’m thinking is just this is a failure of you being able to plan accordingly.

Clint

I agree. You did nothing preemptive. Absolutely. Right. This is this is literally a cold call in person.

John

Yeah, you over sold yourself, you’ve done something, your processes are terrible.

Clint

You want to put yourself in the hottest situation that you’re going to get as a salesperson, drive into a parking lot of somebody you’ve never done anything, research on, preemptive strikes, and you go knock on the door and you run into the secretary. Good luck, buddy. Oh, I mean, good luck. But that’s what we’re talking about. How do we navigate that? Because that because some people have to do that. Some people’s quotas.

Al

They just, like repetition, go knock on 60 doors.

Nannette

How is anyone successful doing that? Just ridiculous.

Clint

People are, right, people are.

And they’re professionals at navigating this topic right here.

John

Oh, absolutely. There are people out there that can do that. But to Nan’s point, the people that do that really, really well are the people who can empathize make it about that gatekeeper. Because I’ll tell you what, I agree with that. When I started the I know, you don’t know when you made that abundantly clear numbers numerous times. But when I started to kind of go down this path of like, Man, I’m frustrated, I’m not getting any better. By myself. Like, let me see if I can find someone who’s better than me. And I’ll go sit at their feet for you know, the metaphor there. The first thing they told me was like make it about them, right because they get, for lack a better term, shit on by everybody else. So if I can show up and pay them a little bit of attention, right and say, Hey, I know the doctor’s busy. If you were me, yeah, when would you come back? I’m involving them in the conversation.

Nannette

Thank you, another person!

Clint

This is as uncomfortable for you as it is for me. I’m showing up unannounced, I apologize for that.

John

I love that as a pattern interrupt. Yeah. Such a good one.

Clint

Kind of slipping that back on yourself letting her say you know what, I have some compassion for you a little bit because I understand this is this is awkward for me. I hate this part of my job. Because I would guess that most of them do. They don’t want to. They don’t want to be I think your other day. Yeah. So if you can kind of like you said pattern interrupt and say, Hey, this is really awkward for me. I saw the sign on the door, it sounded like something that the business that I’m in, I’m just trying to figure out what you guys do. You know, not what they do, what you do, because you’re a part of that team.

John

Acknowledge the elephant in the room. Yeah, yeah, I showed up unannounced. Yeah. I’m you don’t know who the hell I am. And I don’t even know if you’re the person I should talk to you. Right?

Nannette

You’ve got to benefit people.

Clint

Before we go on with a bunch of theories. I mean, me personally, I think that there’s three ways to navigate this problem. Okay. Or I don’t know if problems the right word but this situation you can sell around it. There’s ways to do that you can sell right around a gatekeeper. It’s not easy.

Al

Wait at the back door until lunch.

John

Or in Al’s world, you show up in the hospital in the halls. Absolutely. Oh, Doc strange to see you here.

Clint

I’ve got a great story about how I sold around a gatekeeper. Got a great story. I’ll go into that here in a second. Number two option.

Leave, go to lunch, find another place. Do some research find another customer. Two is you sell through them.

John

You mean three?

Clint

Yeah, three.

Lost count, stuff had to take my boots off. Pregame. number three is that you sell through them, you use them as a part of your process. They’re your first sale, we mentioned that earlier. You sell to them first. They agree to introduce you. But sometimes guys, that’s not in the same conversation. It might be fourth conversation. Fifth conversation.

John

Can I add a point there because a lot of people talk about this idea that you’re supposed to overwhelm the gatekeeper with like facts and features and benefits.

Nannette

That’s exactly what I was about to say! You are not selling to them, or you are only getting the next step.

Clint

If you listen to my three options, take that hip pocket and go with number two and turn the fuck around.

John

I agree, right? Because one of the things that I have found to be super successful for for myself, which is not comfortable, is to be vulnerable. Right? Because when you’re a little bit vulnerable, you’re approachable.

Al

Well, you see, you told me you cried earlier today.

You can be vulnerable.

John

Oh god, really? We’re gonna put this on here?

Al

No, we’re not going to. I’m just simply saying everybody can. So you do have empathy.

John

I do so right. I do. But that’s different. Because I’m around my family.

Al

No, I understand. what I’m saying is and that was tongue in cheek.

John

In my role, you give me a goal. I want to work to, I want to work to get to that goal.

Al

And that’s where you slide away, like we talked about.

John

Hey, C’s cry, man, it happens.

Clint

I have tears.

Nannette

Everyone cries.

Clint

Tears of the red, white and blue.

John

When the spreadsheets don’t work.

Al

A little verklempt.

Clint

Freedom.

Nannette

He’s a Marine, we love him. And we love America.

John

This idea that you’re supposed to overwhelm the gatekeeper. And and, and they’re just going to give up eventually. I don’t find that to be sustainable and scalable.

Clint

That’s a way. you’re right. It’s not efficient. efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.

John

Of course, Al’s got something to say.

Al

I was gonna say, so you go and you have a bad experience with the gatekeeper. Right? And you know, you got to go back into that office. And maybe it’s a big target. It’s not something you can write off as a pretend like, I got to get in there. So I, I can see where you eventually, if the first time is a bad experience, because I’ve had this happen to the point where it’s happened two ways, where I come back in and I’m like, me again. Right.

And I almost have that written on my face.

Clint

Great. Yeah. What a great way.

Al

Yeah, I mean, because…

Clint

Because that would work for me.

Nannette

I’m back.

Al

Cuz you can see it in their face when you you know, the tenseness begins to tense up again. And I’m like, this woman, I think may hate me for no apparent reason. I haven’t got very far. But then I’ve had the other ones that showed me sympathy. But if you guys can see this, but as I hand my literature, or I try to get something to make the next move, they just sort of almost have compassion, because they’re like, they’re not going to let me get in this time either, right.

John

They know as soon as you walk out that shit’s going in the trash.

Al

Right? And I know it too! Right. And it’s just a lose, lose, right?

Nannette

Okay, so that is true, you will completely get shut down by I don’t know why. Why do we say gatekeeper, from that front?

Clint

What would you like to call it?

John

Hold on, hold on this is an important point. It’s not always the executive assistant or the front desk admin.

Clint

And I can tell you a million other people in this industry.

Al

Call it someone. you say gatekeeper it’s an analogy for the person.

Clint

Sometimes I deal with an estimator, 25 year vet estimator in a company, and he’s my gatekeeper, because I can’t get past him to the decision maker. But I’m turning bids into that guy, he’s a gatekeeper.

John

So for the sake of this conversation, a decision makers is anyone who can tell you a no, but cannot tell you. Yes, that’s right. That’s…

Nannette

They block you. If they have any way of doing that.

John

That’s your nugget for this episode. If you are if you’re if you’re spending time, too much time with people who can only give you a no without giving you a yes, you need to reevaluate how you are…

Clint

Not to put you on the spot but did you just come up with that?

Al

That’s beautiful.

Clint

It was.

John

I mean, I’ll bask in it.

Nannette

John, just say it one more time.

John

Don’t spend time with people who can’t give you a yes.

Al

I think everybody heard the first time but we appreciate it.

John

I’m complying with the request of the S.

Al

There’s the reverse. She’s only 25%, she’s not the majority.

Nannette

Thank you for giving me that, John.

John

Alright, so Nan, as because I don’t think Al’s got to deal with too many gatekeepers anymore. I don’t think Clint has got to deal with too many gatekeepers, I think I think of the four of us, you have to deal with them the most.

Nannette

Okay, so reality. I just try to find a way. And I’m truly trying to be genuine, that I can relate with them. I’m not just treating them like they’re just some silly person sitting there in a chair. I want to get to know them. And by them getting to know me in the same so I know them, they get to know me. And I know y’all are like, oh god, I don’t know. But it I’m telling you, it truly matters, because they don’t ever get any kind of special behavior going on in their life, in the office.

John

So here’s a potential nugget. If you’re not building rapport with that front desk person, how much rapport are you building with the decision maker, when you finally get past that person. Because rapport, as we all know, is super important. If you’re not, if you’re not seeking out if they’re a D I S or C. You are working in the dark, because I can’t sell to Al the same way that I would sell to you, Nannette, or to Clint as the D. So if you’re not if you’re not taking that opportunity to build some rapport with someone who is low hanging fruit, because call it what you will, they’re there. They’re easy to talk to. So where are they on this, on this scale? Because that’s super important to figure out.

Clint

What’s the expectation? I think that’s key for me, as if you go in with this expectation that they’re going to lead you down this golden hallway into the golden gates of the C-level. First of all, you’re you’re not i’m not saying it’s yours. I’m saying recognize your expectation and what you’re trying to get at this meeting. You’re trying to get some information, period.

John

So let’s talk about one thing we’ve not talked about, right yet yet in an enterprise sale, right? In a huge company. And there’s multiple people, you got to cultivate internal champions, right people who will, who will work on your behalf to sell you to people up the chain and things like that. Because if you’re dealing with like a, like a huge mega company, and there’s and there’s thousands of people in it, if you’re just the only guys pulling for you, you’re never making it because politics will ruin you.

Al

So I deal with hospitals now. Right? Absolutely. And frontline clinics. So you go to a hospital and everybody’s like that. It’s the greatest put off? Well, I’ve got to talk to so and so and meaning their boss or claim to be their boss…

Nannette

You were telling that story last night.

Al

The point is, is that they they they have an out, right, because of the bigness of the project. Oh, yeah. Right. And well, I’ve got to check with this department.

John

This is above my pay grade.

Al

As well, or they, they, they accept that they have a conversation with you. Right? And that they will then differ. You guys are laughing because why?

John

I’m laughing at Nan, because she finds us so funny. But I’m not laughing at you inherently but keep going.

Al

Well, where I’m going with this is you have to then turn that person into a champion to help you get to that next level for so you have you then you begin the empathy of Oh, man. Okay. And and whatever that verbiage is that comes out should bond the two of you. Right. So that when, you know they work now for you. So make them your employee, they are on your payroll at that point, in my opinion. And I and I clearly see it that way. I’m like, now it’s us.

John

But you have to be careful about that, though, right? Because here’s the downside of that. Me personally, I don’t ever want to put someone else in a position is not a salesperson, they’ve got to sell me to their boss.

Al

No, but I didn’t say they do the sales work.

John

I want you to like me and see value and introduce me and then work out…

Al

Hold on. They if they bring a great project up the ladder, and you win, and if they believe this, then, then you don’t screw it up. Because they can only help you and you can only hurt them. So think about it that way.

John

But here’s the deal, right? Your right hand, gatekeeper, whatever you want to call her, Melissa, employee number one, is a D.

Al

I think she’s a C.

Clint

God bless her.

John

C? She’s not a C. She’s absolutely not.

Nannette

She’s definitely not a C. She’s a D.

John

Right. So at that point, excuse me, you have to be able to deal with her a little bit different than someone who is the traditional gatekeepers gonna be more along the lines of Nan. Right, that S, okay. Right. So..

Al

I’m not seeing that out there either, but it’s way harder.

John

It’s someone way harder to get someone like Clint and, Melissa, who’s your gatekeeper to get fired up about this idea, man, you gotta meet, John. He’s awesome.

Al

I didn’t say that.

John

What’d I miss?

Al

You incorporate, because they hold the keys to the kingdom. Sure. Right. So you make them there? You’re confidant, right? I don’t know if this works or doesn’t work. I don’t know if this makes sense. Or does it make sense?

John

How hard is it to make Clint your confidant? He doesn’t care about you.

Al

I’m sorry, I’m confused. Now. If I’m talking to a gatekeeper who you guys say is a D, or maybe an S, what I’m looking for? No, not an S. There’s no way Melissa, I didn’t say that I’m talking in general. Or whoever you’re speaking to, okay, is somebody that you have to get in on your side? Sure to move the project up to the next level? Because all they can say is no, they can’t say yes, absolutely said. So that I prefer to not hear the no. So I have to figure out how to make them. Team I, right? I have to get them on my side. I’m going to see them over and over again. Because they’re my funnel. I’m not, I’ll actually get a little nervous if they’re not there.

John

Right. One of the things you told me whenever I first started was you should build these relationships to a point where you can just walk straight past that front desk, and they know you’re coming in. And you have cart blanche. That doesn’t happen if you treat them like crap the first five times.

Nannette

I think I really, I’m listening, John, I’m going Whoa, no, I really, I think of all my gatekeepers, and all my gate keepers are my friends. They’re like people I go. So you know how I talk about their life, I talk about, I don’t, I tell them a little bit about my life. I don’t think of them as this. I feel like y’all are acting like this person is I think of them as a genuine person, like I try to understand who they are. And then when the next time I see em, we’re talking a little more about who they are, and that I’ve built this bond. And then but there’s a fine line, because you have to be very careful with, you have the gatekeeper, then you have, you know, it’s like a daisy chain. And eventually you get to the one person, there’s like 1-2-3 people that are most important, but the can never feel like they’re subservient to, you know, you in this gatekeeper best friends. And now, you know, I don’t does that make any sense to any of y’all? Probably not. Okay. All right.

John

I get it.

Clint

I get it, I get it. And that’s for all compassionate people out there. I think that works. So what happens when, so you’re talking about tools in your toolbox? That that’s fantastic. I don’t have those tools.

Nannette

So how do you do it, then?

Clint

Well, I’m going to drop a bombshell on this conversation.

I’m a gatekeeper.

John

What?

Nannette

In what way? Explain.

Clint

I’m a gatekeeper because vendors think, because of my position in my company, that I influence my people to buy a certain way.

John

But don’t you?

Clint

I do. So therefore, I’m a gatekeeper. Right. So I have a lot of people, a lot of vendors that love to try to take me out on venues and try to sell me so that I sell to my group to buy from them happens every single day.

John

Can I interrupt for just a, because that would make me feel uncomfortable. As that as you’re taking me out, you’re showing me a good time. And now I you know, for lack of better term I gotta put out now, right, which means I got to introduce you to someone above me.

Clint

So I typically don’t, unless I truly buy in on what they’re saying. So I’m going to give you a little insight being a gatekeeper myself. Because I’m everything.

But here listen, I truly am a gatekeeper in my company. You sometimes because if you piss me off the wrong way, I can totally influence them to never buy from you.

Nannette

That is a gatekeeper.

John

Can you give them a yes?

Clint

No, I can’t. But I’m an influencer. Oh, perfect, perfect example of a gatekeeper here. Okay. I’m an influencer. I can give you an A Yes, but I can. I can give you a goddang no. So what happens to me a lot is people try to woo schmooze me. Let’s go on this guided hunt out in Africa. Let’s go to Argentina. Let’s go dove hunting. Let’s go down to the Bahamas. Happens all the time. I’m not saying I don’t take all of these.

Al

Why am I still in the Metroplex?

John

Can I be your plus one? Damn.

Clint

Gatekeepers don’t have it so bad.

Nannette

Like hello, who are we to you?

Clint

No, I will tell you that it, it, it comes down to me as a D as a gatekeeper. It is very factual. It has to be there. What you’re providing?

John

What is it? What do you mean by it?

Clint

I have a problem or company has a spot that needs improvement. It needs help. And you’re the solution to that. Speak to that. Resonates?

Nannette

I don’t think that’s different than what an S is doing.

Clint

I didn’t say that; what I’m saying is that, that whatever they’re…

Al

You’re just saying holding hands with them?

Clint

Well, fuuu

John

Yeah, if you have a good solution, are you willing to to listen to someone who can improve your solution?

Clint

Absolutely, but I want them, I want them to have done research before. Because I may not have known that I have a problem or a weak spot. So somebody approaches, me this doesn’t happen real often. But if somebody approaches me and says, Hey, I know you’re using this other company to do that, did you know that they don’t actually carry that line? They buy it for me? This happens a lot. Oh, really? That’s interesting. Let’s talk about that.

JOhn

So questions. If someone shits on your current provider, your current solution provider, does that help you? Or does that make you want to talk to them or listen to them?

Clint

It doesn’t hurt.

John

Really?

Clint

And I’m not talking like you trash, you come in and you trash somebody that I’ve done business with for a while, or or that I’m, you know, that I see a successful help us be successful. I’m not listening to you, because you’re an idiot.

Truly.

Al

But, but so sometimes they understand they come in with enough knowledge, knowing you’re unhappy. That’s what I’m saying. They’ve heard some research to the rumor mill, that things aren’t going well in that company. They may not know how it directly influences you, right? But they know that they did business with you. And the vultures are circling.

Clint

99% of the time if you done your homework, and you said exactly what doc Al just said, you come to me and you say those things I say, Well, you know, I’m not the right guy. But I know a guy. And here’s who you need to talk to. That works very well with me, one, because I’m a D, and I want you out of my office. And how can I push this on, but I also see value. I’m strategic, I’m deliberate. So I’m going to…

Al

But you have your own agenda that you’re trying to accomplish. You’re trying to, because money in his pocket, but it helps the company that he currently makes money with, right?

Clint

That’s right, and I can’t if I can’t be successful with the company behind me, we’ve talked about this prior. If my company back there behind me is not successful in what I do, then I’m not successful. I can’t sell the next thing. So this person is helping me help my company be successful that I sell more, it happens.

John

But so for me, right? If I’m trying to project myself into a gatekeeper role, you better have your shit straight. Right? You better you better bring your facts you bet you better be really, really, really good. I’m not I’m not I’m not saying that anyone should bash the current incumbent or anything like that. I don’t I don’t agree with that.

Clint

That’s weak sauce.

Al

But you’re a decision maker, you said as a gatekeeper. But we just said throwing facts at a gatekeeper…

John

Hold on, hold on though right? Because I because I think that what we’re really talking about is this person who I think is more in line with what your gatekeeper is out as this right hand person who you gotta, you gotta sell to her before you can sell to you.

Al

Okay, let’s call it what it is. It is the emissary or the guy who’s gonna or the gal that’s going to connect you with the Yes, right?

John

Yeah, pretty sure.

Nannette

Or next step, I don’t know about yes.

Clint

You run into a gatekeeper, they have just become your liaison and your way to the company.

Al

Better, better than what I was saying. The liaison…

John

As a C, you got to have those facts straight. right for me, right? If you come to me, and I’m and I’m this person in charge of right, because Hold on, you’re going to get the whole spectrum, right? You might get a D who’s a decision or I’m sorry, who is a gatekeeper right hand person, which is your situation, you might get someone like me, who’s a C. So if you show up and you’re spouting all these big facts and everything else that are not backed up and easily proven. No.

Al

Why would you be spouting facts to somebody whose being made, who can’t make the decision?

And we should call that wrong?

Clint

John? Has people asked you to do that because that’s unlike you to spew facts.

Al

To somebody who can’t say yes, because it’s okay. Because like I said, if you got a D, you can have a D and all they know that they can say no. And they’re there. They got it loaded in the gun, right. It’s like a single shot shotgun and the trigger’s back.. I’m waiting for my POW. No, POW, no.

John

I’m just saying be aware that not everyone’s going to be an S like Nannette is.

Clint

I don’t think most of them are to be honest with you.

John

Okay. What do you think the majority of them are?

Clint

C/Ds?

John

You think the majority of gatekeepers are C/D’s?

Nannette

I think D’s for sure.

Clint

I mean, ones I’ve run into their harsh, they’re cutthroat. And in…

Nannette

That’s why they’re at the front because they’re trying to stop.

Al

Almost like why are you here? We’re not…

Clint

Okay, hold on, we’re not talking about in a successful business. You’re not. Some people put a pretty face out there. Male, female, doesn’t matter. They put a pretty face out there so that you’re feel welcome in your company, those people, but hear me out here because those people aren’t your gatekeepers, you can get past those guys real easy.

Nannette

I was gonna say I, I don’t think they do that.

Clint

The next person that they’re going to introduce you is probably your gatekeeper. And most companies that I deal with those gatekeepers, aren’t that pretty face sitting out there like oh, yeah, go on back. He’s waiting for you. That’s not what we’re talking about I think that depends upon how you prospect. If you’re cold calling or cold walking in, you’re dealing with that front desk, group. But what I’m saying is I don’t think that that is a majority problem, because those people are easy to navigate.

Nannette

Okay, so we’ve added no shine, we’re identifying who the gatekeepers, maybe belabor it a bit.

John

If you’ve not noticed Clint and I are really good at arguing with each other.

Nannette

And so I think we Ok, so now have we identified what we’re going to do with that person? Anybody? Yeah, I’ve got think I have. Al, so how do you deal with a datekeeper? Date?

Al

Is pregame catching up to you?

Nannette

Gatekeeper.

John

Nannette has had too much water.

Clint

No, I was gonna say edibles. But go ahead.

Al

We wish.

John

So Al, right. You know, it’s been a while. What? Right? Mostly relationships are tried and true, right? You know, you you’ve been, you’ve been around the block for a while. So knowing I don’t think you knew as much as you know now.

Al

I think ignorance is bliss, right? When you first get into a sales role.

Clint

That might to be, not to interrupt you, but that’s probably the best statement in the gatekeeper thing. Ignorance is bliss. Yeah. Play that fucking card.

Al

Well, okay to play the card. But you play it really well, when you first get started in any organization, or you first get into sales, right? And then you get a little swag, because you’ve made your successful, right, sure. And you walk in, and maybe you know, the doctor, not well enough to just walk through the door. But you’re, you know, you met him at a conference or you’ve got some kind of Common Ground that’s connected you, but you want a face to face with them? Because you really haven’t gone through your sales routine.

John

Oh, for sure.

Clint

That’s interesting, because that ups your percentages. 100%. A common connection. Oh, for sure. Because, let me I’m not cutting you off. Totally segue that. Because if I go to a conference, and I meet bill, from Asr, plumbing, or whatever the hell we’re talking about. And we made a connection there, but we didn’t agree to any next steps. If I happen to drive by that place six weeks later, one thing you can do, and what you’re talking about is I can walk into that front desk person or that gatekeeper and say, hey, look, I’m, I just happen to be in town today, I’m in the area. I know, Bill We met at a conference, that’s a whole different conversation than walking in cold, for sure. You just upped your percentages.

Nannette

Okay, so what I would like to share at this point, with that statement, that is so true, ultimately, and not that I should pat myself on the back. But ultimately, you need to get to the point that you say hi to the gatekeeper. Hope you’re doing great. Talk about that little subject y’all may be talked about at some point, but you walk right by them, because ultimately, you don’t have so right now I know we’re just learning how to get in front of the gatekeeper what to do with it. But ultimately, you will get, I promise, y’all, you get to a point where you don’t even have to.

John

How do you gauge that though? Now me me as the process guy…

Al

When you grab the handle and it doesn’t turn, right? Because if…

Clint

You look back over your shoulder.

Nannette

I just want to give that hope to our listeners that…

Al

Hope left the building.

Nannette

That it is the coolest thing…

Clint

I want to go back to doc was pushing a point for nice segue to…

Al

Yeah, my mind. Sorry, memory’s so small. That was…

Clint

You were you were talking about…

Al

That… Oh, that. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. We’ll get back to the guys. We’re gonna be around for a while. So…

John

That old-timers kicks in early.

Al

The tremors are next.

John

I was okay with my joke. I’m not okay with your joke.

Nannette

I know, that’s terrible.

John

So Nannette, right. I mean, if you’re if you’re visiting an office, right, it’s a brand new office, you never been there before. You have a goal in mind about what?

Nannette

I had four those calls today. And I literally was just like, Yay, because I just like, I love it.

John

You’re the only person that gets excited about that.

Nannette

Yeah, it just is so good. That’s, I really love it.

Al

So tell me what good means when you say it’s so good, define that.

Nannette

Good is that I can literally go Okay, where am I going to go next? And then I figure it out. And then I go there. I’ve never been in this office before. And I walk in and I look around the room and I look at the girls. It’s usually a girl…

Al

And she says beehives are back.

Nannette

I am so sorry. girl. I don’t have that. I don’t have that. And that’s why I want to…

Clint

I love you.

Nannette

that I don’t have that?

Al

No. Okay. I’m only saying that as a joke, right.

Nannette

I love it. I love I like making, so, it’s, okay.

Al

And she does, she’s honest in general here So no, I’m not taking anything away from that other than…

Nannette

I’m gonna I don’t want to talk the whole time. So I just know the mood of the room the mood of the girl the it’s usually girl Sorry, I keep saying girls but it know the mood of the person that you’re going to talk to. And if they’re having a bad day go man. You know, I mean, just genuinely relate with the people you’re talking to. It sounds so gay. I know that.

Al

You said that there’s something wrong with being gay?

Nannette

No. I just don’t know if that’s an appropriate word.

Al

Gay as in happy or gay as in homosexual?

Nannette

Gay as in happy.

Clint

Because it’s, because I want to, I want to go back to what we said earlier, most people that we’re dealing with, I think we agreed, John, you didn’t. But most of these people are C/Ds,

Nannette

But it doesn’t matter.

Clint

But it does, it so does.

John

C/D’s? They’re mercenaries.

Nannette

Okay, so, okay, let’s… Okay. So you’re, you’re assuming that I’m walking into a D going “Hi, isn’t it beautiful?” No, I’m not doing that.

Clint

What I’m trying to say is that the upper end of the spectrum that has no care for people.

John

I think, honestly, I’m going to argue with you.

Clint

That’s a turnoff.

John

I think that you are dealing with a very subsegment of gatekeepers.

Clint

You mean the right segment, but yeah.

Nannette

And I know, okay, so I think I said this last time, so I’m sorry for the redundancy. But Clint, what’s your name?

Al

Too much pregame!

Clint

See what happens when girls say Clint first? Forget everybody else.

Nannette

John and I were laughing so hard, because Clint was like, if you say blue is the best color in America, he’s like, I hate blue. I don’t ever want to see blue, it’s just like the weirdest thing how you are…

John

What’s very interesting, to your point, D’s don’t like generalizations. Right. And I’s love to speak in generalizations. Right? Right. It happens all the time. Yeah. Al, you ar,e you’re giving me this hard look right now.

Al

Am I the king of that? Or him?

John

You are the…

Clint

Obviously you’re the king of that!

Al

I need to quit then.

John

You can’t be the VP?

Al

VP? What’s VP?

John

Vice President? You can’t be somewhere on the ladder. You got to be the best?

Al

No, no, I want to be nothing of that.

So how did I get where I’m at if all I did was speak in generalities?

John

Because we’re talking about your, your comfort zone of speaking in generalities versus…

Nannette

That is so true. Good point.

Al

Guys, this is my lesson.

Nannette

That is true. You are so kind to everyone. Yeah, you really are. Like, you’re I feel like if you’re not watching the I’m not. I’m not pointing to Clint.

John

She’s not pointing to Clint who’s never been kind to anybody.

Nannette

You are totally me when you’re working. You’re very kind to everyone.

Al

Absolutely. I am.

Nannette

And you never ever throw people under the bus. You never do anything.

Al

Nobody should ever throw anybody under the bus.

But don’t, there’s no self gratification because I don’t need to throw somebody under the bus to get back to talk to. And I don’t wish any harm towards the gatekeeper. I get frustrated with them sometimes. Who doesn’t? Yeah, I mean, that’s a normal with anybody.

John

As the S, do you ever get frustrated?

Nannette

Well, I don’t know. I don’t I really don’t like when people are just rude, they have no reason to be rude and they do throw you under the bus.

John

Do you call them out when they are rude? I bet that’s hard for you.

Nannette

Yeah, I just kind of walk away.

John

Would not be hard for Clint because he’s got this smile on his face.

Al

Biting his tongue.

Clint

Well, I want to go back to the question you asked. Or you were talking about is why why do you get mad at the gatekeeper? They’re literally doing what they’re instructed to do.

John

You don’t get mad at gatekeepers?

Clint

Why would I? they’re doing exactly what somebody told me to do I have to navigate that.

John

But they’re keeping you there keeping you away from your goal, your task.

Al

That’s on you, not them.

John

Absolutely right. But here’s the deal when you get frustrated, that’s about us.

Clint

Yeah, but it’s not on them.

John

Absolutely right. This is…

Al

They have a hard job.

Clint

Hardest job on the planet.

I don’t want that job. Yeah, I don’t want anything to do with it.

Nannette

Big people master their mood.

Al

When you say that he has a valid point of and I agree with it. How are you upset with them and I, but I still do get upset, because they own, okay but the reason I should be upset I should be upset because they owned me and I didn’t get past them.

John

How many people have an ego that is malleable enough that they can admit you know what I’m mad at you right now but really that’s on me okay, but it didn’t happen very often.

Clint

It doesn’t and most people don’t. most people don’t. my challenge is that when you walk away pissed off because you got turned away by a gatekeeper do exactly what John saying be malleable check that ego Exactly. Because that is…

Al

Exactly that’s on you guys, not on the gatekeeper. Pull your big boy panties up, because your bitch ass just got slapped.

Nannette

That is the biggest takeaway from this.

Clint

She’s but she or he that the gatekeeper is not. You can’t hate the company and you can’t hate the process. You can’t hate her personally or professionally. They are, it’s an obstacle we were talking about jumping over the obstacle working around it or not.

John

As the D, you go into a very cold interaction right? You don’t know anybody there and you gotta you gotta do the standard think of the cold drop in right, the cold call. Yes. And the gatekeeper shuts you down cold. You’re not mad?

You don’t have that moment of being…

Al

You should be at yourself.

John

Absolutely. Right. It’s misdirected, I can absolutely admit to that.

Right. I have I really, I get furious…

Al

I get the emotion.

John

I get emotional.

Al

But put it where it belongs.

John

Clint, right as the D as the as the person who’s willing to burn down a relationship. If you feel it’s time to do so. Yeah. You don’t say You know what? I should be better.

Clint

You got to go kill yourself.

Man, look, I gotta be honest with you here because I I don’t get mad at that situation. What I get mad at is the fact that somebody set a precedence long before us. Oh, for sure. That’s what I get mad at. Absolutely.

Al

Those douchebags. Like, yeah, that have come in. I mean,

Clint

That’s what but that’s what clicks instantly in my head look, you know, you know, Jack or Felicia, whatever

Nannette

Or the guy that walked beyond Melissa.

Al

Yeah, well, that’s the wrong thing to do. But…

Clint

But when I see that person and they say, look, you don’t have an appointment, you gotta leave. You can’t be in this space. I’m sorry. We have customers, please move out of the way. Does that piss me off? Yeah, it makes me upset. But I’m upset a little bit more deeper down the road and I’m pissed off as somebody set that precedent.

Al

Okay, so I get no we’re not interested right or and you come back with so you’ve, you are deciding not to do business with my company.

John

Do you say that? As the I?

Al

I’ve said it before? Yeah.

John

Really?

Nannette

He’s told me to say that before.

John

How did that go?

Al

Um, they they’re just mystified so it doesn’t really work on the gatekeeper very well, it works better when you’re talking to the decision maker, right? He responds appropriately. She looks very confused. I guess. So let me ask you this. So guys, when you walk in, and they just ignore you, right? or pretend to not see you? Because that happens to we’ve all had that like, you’re invisible. So let’s run through that. So you walk in and you’re sort of there but this is going on? And you’re just looking for how do I introduce me?

Clint

Play dummy.

John

What do you mean? Give me an example. An example, I cannot talk today.

Clint

If I walk in if somebody is ignoring me, like, Okay, I see I see this person, I’m sitting behind my desk, I see this person walking around in my lobby. I don’t know what they’re doing. They’re trying to probably they’re going to come talk to me and oh God and they’re already gauging this shit up. Right? And you’ve already, first of all, you’ve already probably…

Al

So, you’re the gatekeeper?

Clint

No, I’m saying that if somebody is a gatekeeper, and they’re watching the salesperson walk through their lobby for the first trip. Yeah. So but don’t give them. I approach this with quick jabs. Because if you let them marinate too long on the fact that you’re walking around their lobby, they’re building a defense or building. Sure. So what you can do to kind of counteract that, in my mind is to walk over and say, hey, look, man, I think I might be lost. I don’t know if you’re…

Al

I love it.

John

How hard is that for you as the D right? Because you hate being wrong?

Clint

No, this guy can play that. I’ve seen it happen. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I should do it more.

Al

Not at all.

John

Is that so? So hold on real quick, because we’re talking about this before the show. Is that because you were so good at flipping to an I.

Clint

No, it’s because I’m flipping towards, I have an endgame in mind. You’re part of my game.

John

Right. I love it. I love that.

Al

Hold on you’re…

Clint

I don’t know, we say manipulative. That’s a negative connotation on a word. I’m being manipulative. A dummy.

Nannette

We’re at war.

Clint

How about you’re playing a game.

No, if I have to be put in that situation I am being manipulative, manipulative to get through the door.

Al

They’re playing the same damn game. It’s a dance.

John

One of the things that we all know, right is you either run your game or you run their game, right? Yeah. So if you don’t interrupt that pattern, we talked about pattern interrupts in the beginning of this thing. And that is super important. If you don’t put them back on their heels to use a martial arts metaphor. If you don’t put them back on the hills and get them off of their game. You don’t ever have the chance to run your game. And I am 100% more successful when I run my game, then if I let you run your game.

Clint

Why would you ever let that person run their game on you? If you’re a true salesperson, and you have a process as…

Al

God I suck.

John

Well, it’s the difference between being a salesperson and being a sales professional.

Clint

Okay, that’s good point.

Al

I guess I’m still a salesperson, so, unfortunately, but I’m learning. Hey, that’s why show up every week.

Clint

Look, that’s what we already knew. That’s front page news.

Al

Thanks for that. So Clint.

Clint

Hey, as we’re as we’re winding down here talking bow down to the team.

John

I almost spit whatever was in my cup.

Clint

Hashtag TeamD.

I want to start a little movement here on this podcast. Not me personally. But us.

Al

Back there. Team Paul.

Producer back there.

Nannette

Team Paul!

John

He’s making the magic happen.

Clint

So if you guys are resonating with us and you’re on my side. And instead these other assholes. You know, throw out in the comments section on our social media hashtag team D get support. Let’s get that rolling hashtag team I, S, or C over there. Hey, if you like…

Al

I’s, we didn’t represent very well today, but we’re here.

Clint

If you’re that closet guy that doesn’t like to be seen and you like team producer back there.

Al

Hey, we couldn’t do it without them.

Absolutely, we couldn’t do it without the haircuts. The clean shaves. The glasses that see.

Clint

Paul did my makeup today.

John

Finish your point.

Clint

So anyway, on track? Yeah. So back on track, winding this thing down? Right. So we’re talking about navigating the gatekeeper. We have a couple different ways. I actually have a really good story I want to share with you guys on working around a gatekeeper. And it’s manipulative. It’s reconnaissance. Yep, three, go. So here’s what here’s what’s happened. I walked into a plant. It’s a fenced in, it’s got C wire at the top. I’ve been wanting to work at this plant for years. Everybody tells me you’re not going to get past that lady at the front. You’re not going to do she’s tough. She won’t even look at you. You pull your car in the wrong spot in the parking lot. She’s going to come out with a couple people and you’re going to move your car. I’ve been told this for years. Sounds like a challenge. Now and I have no business because I can go to a million other places and work and do this thing. But now I want to because I want to experience I want to know what it’s like to deal with that person. I want to know if I punched in the face but maybe but I want to know if I can do it better than everybody that’s failed. that’s a that’s a pretty D trait.

John

Yeah, that is that is D encapsulated right there.

Clint

So I literally pulled in the parking lot. I parked in a handicapped spot.

Al

Nice.

Clint

I did it for a reason, I sit in my car. Instantly she came she comes out. And she gives me the line. Sir Excuse me.

Al

You You’re not Andy.

Clint

One you’re not handicapped. She didn’t say that. She said you need to leave your, you don’t have the right sticker because they all have stickers for the plant. I said, you know, I’m sorry. I just, I was, I was looking through my I’m actually looking for this plant. I don’t think I’m in the right spot. And I and I named the plant. She’s like, no, you’re actually you’re here. I said, Oh man, that’s great. I was actually looking for this guy can’t remember his name. Man. He was, you know, he was, he’s an engineer here. I can’t remember his name. He does mechanical work. And I was trying to fish and she said, Look, sir, I know what you’re doing.

And I just need you to leave the premises. And I thought damn.

No wonder nobody makes this shit..

So let me tell you, I knew this guy’s name. I knew who I was looking for. I social media the shit out of this guy. And I got like nine commonalities on pictures and what this guy look like. And I put together a portfolio in my head of what this guy mind drive. What he might look like on today. It’s Tuesday. It’s not wearing a suit. It’s a plant is your only wearing some jeans.

John

You are living this lie so hard.

Clint

I love this. This makes me feel so good. Because I will tell you for the next six hours, folks, I sit outside that parking lot outside the fence across the street. And I waited and I shit you not about the last five cars that left on shift change. There was a guy came out of his car. This could be luck.

Nannette

Or stalking.

Clint

So?

Nannette

I know, I’m just teasing.

John

If it wins, who cares?

Clint

I did win.

Let me get to that if you’re ready, because this guy got in his car and he drove home and you know what he does every day on his way home at four o’clock. He stops by the local pub. And he has a shot. And then he goes home. That’s what he does. And guess what?

John

Your recon level is next level.

Clint

Look man, bring it with you. If this is the tools in your chest, use it. And I don’t mean to run timeout but I followed that guy there. I said to two barstools down, I let them go. I let them have a shot. I ordered a beer and I said Hey, buddy, what do you do? says, Man, I’m an engineer. What kind of engineer mechanical? What do you do? I work over here. That’s fantastic. I build stuff that you design. That’s awesome. Cool. Man. I’ve always wanted to get in there. I just want to take a tour of that place. That is so cool that you work there. Come by next Tuesday. And I walked in past I will call her Felicia. I love that name. I walked the last past Felicia with a big ass smile on my face three days later, like gotcha bitch. And I’ll tell you…

Al

It is Friday, love it. Love it

Clint

But let me tell you, I did $3- $4 million with with em that year.

Al

Come on, guys. That’s what we’re talking about. That’s dedication folks.

Nannette

For an S, what that is, is investigate, figure it out.

John

How uncomfortable does that make you as an S?

Nannette

It actually doesn’t make me uncomfortable, which is not appropriate. I think you’ve got to figure out you have to have a plan. And you have to have action after the plans.

John

You gotta trust the plan, first of all.

Al

He did nothing illegal, nothing undermined. He did recon?

Clint

You know, for the first time I wasn’t even uncouth.

Al

He moved his car, went outside the gate. But he knew what his objective was. And he stayed with the program, even though he got like…

Clint

My point to the story is how hungry are you? How bad do you want it? What lengths are you willing to go to? Because if you’re willing to walk out with your tail tucked, and that bother you forever, and never take a second chance or never do anything to go past that point, then folks, you you are struggling.

John

That’s a good point. Go ahead.

Al

And maybe this isn’t the game for you, for sure. I mean, it may be part of this should be guy sales isn’t for everybody. And if it’s not your game, then then go find your game.

Clint

That’s that’s one point. Sometimes it’s, you know, it doesn’t have to be that elaborate, right? That’s, that’s a pretty elaborate story. I was gonna say that’s pretty deep on you know, I’ve had it, I’m going to defeat the shit because everybody told me I can’t get past this lady and I just did. So F you guys, I’m in the plant now. And you’re not how’d you get past that? Or? Well, let me tell you a story. I love telling the story.

Nannette

But I think the issue is, is not figuring out your game plan. I mean, that’s his game plan. My game plan is just trying to really care about people. And I really do.

Al

You said not figuring out your game plan? It is figuring your game plan.

Nannette

No, if you don’t figure out your game plan, you will not succeed if you have action…

Clint

So what drove me through all that scenario was passion, and drive.

John

Well, someone told you that you couldn’t do something.

Clint

Dedication, that’s what I’m saying. But so even the Nan’s point, right? So even not to go that she does it a different way. But you still have to to have drive. You still have to have passion for what you want and an end game. You have to have those.

John

Bet you can’t sell $5 million for my business.

Clint

Well, that’s…

I would typically say Challenge accepted if that had anything to do with me making money.

John

Alright, so so with gatekeepers, it sounds like Clint strategy is to stalk. Right.

Al

I think that was an example of overcoming…

John

I’m making a joke. Right? If you’re a D and you’re dealing with a gatekeeper. What’s one piece of advice you give to the person who’s listening right now, as a D.

Clint

So use the tools in your tool chest, use your strengths you have everybody has some. They may not work for traditional sales. But that’s not what we’re talking about. So if you if you have drive, and you know that your endgame is through that person, sell that person, that person is step one, I believe strongly that and make it swift, don’t don’t sit there and and be a be memorable. Say, Look, Hey, I know that I can’t just come in here, and, and drop off all this stuff. And it’s going to work, I’m not expecting that. I do believe that I add value to your company. I’ve done a little research. Here’s a little bit of information, if you could just please pass this on to the next person. I’d really appreciate that. Boom, you’re out. That’s the what I typically do with a gatekeeper. It doesn’t always work. But folks, we’re up in our percentages. 100% we’re not looking for a silver bullet. If that’s your if that’s your typical day to day driver that you have to go do that. Yeah, you’re going to have to develop a little bit different process than what I said, but if that’s my 10% I’m only dealing with gatekeepers 10% of the time, and I just up my percentage, just one nugget. Now I was receiving I’m I’m moving forward in my pocket.

John

Okay. Nan Nan has a point, she put up her finger.

Nannette

Oh, no, I’m just time wise. And I just think what you said is important.

Al

Why is time an issue?

Nannette

Okay, it’s not.

John

Alright, so so let’s continue down the path, right? I, if you’re dealing with the gatekeeper.

Al

I look for I look to use some charisma and common ground. Right?

John

Explain how common ground shows up in your world, right? Because you are of the four of us, I think probably the most removed from a gatekeeper as far as…

Clint

A common ground and knowledge.

Al

And knowledge of the structure of the office, knowledge of the, the equation and knowing somebody behind the scenes.

Clint

Is this one instance, you’re talking about being removed from common ground? Is this one instance, as a doctor yourself?

John

No, I think.. Hold on.

Al

I never used title.

John

I’m going to speak to this point, right? Because I’ve seen Al in an office, he never talks about him being a doctor.

Al

I never used title.

John

He talks about the fact of human knows so much about how these offices work, right? Who’s your first assist? Right? Who’s your Who’s your nurse prac? Right? All of this stuff, right? So he’s willing to climb that ladder and do it the right way? Because man, that’s a big nugget. patience. Patience, right? If you understand that structure. Right? It might not make sense to call on the president or the CEO might be the CTO, the CIO.

Al

Because when the back office, or the person behind them goes, Oh, that’s Dr. Daniel or Oh, we work with him and they pull right past them. It’s such a win, right? And then I was polite to you. I didn’t use title. I didn’t use the…

Clint

And I think your expectation before you walk in the doors is that I’m probably not going to get through this person.

Al

Or that I’m going to have they don’t know who I am. And so I’m not going to tell them.

Clint

But I think the expectation is really important when you walk through the door that I’m not going to close this deal date if by have happen that happens. Geez, that’s fantastic. That’s the best outcome that could ever happen.

John

Absolutely. But that’s the home run. What’s the base hit?

Nannette

You always think you’re gonna…

Clint

Even better what’s the taking the three-two pitch for a walk? Absolutely true. That’s that’s what your game is. So your expectation is not don’t need to hit a home run sell this today. You’re trying to get one step closer to selling.

Al

Here’s the honest truth. I want to get one step closer and not make her mad not have her think poorly or him think poorly.

John

Is that an I thing? Or is that a medical device medical thing?

Al

I thing and a medical device thing. It’s just been my winning recipe. I mean, everybody’s going to have a recipe but isn’t I don’t want make anybody mad cuz I gotta see yours. You don’t. And if glaring at me, because I heard her feelings, I’m going to know that I did that. And it’s going to feel bad. Now I can walk past it for the sake of the dollar and the sale.

Clint

I gotta be honest, team D, if you’re listening out there taking nugget of this. I’m writing this shit down mentally, too.

Al

Yeah. But at the end of the day, I want everybody feeling good about themselves walking out the back door that I wasn’t a dick or something like that to him. But I’m going to speak with authority. I’m going to know what I’m talking about. And then I’m going to let the back of the house come to me. That makes sense.

Clint

Yes. That’s fantastic. That’s patience. That’s man. I agree. I mean, that that’s the best case scenario for me.

John

I love that idea. So Nannette, moving on along the train as an S. How? If you’re give one nugget, one…

Nannette

I think we can all say the exact same thing I don’t think you need to ask anyone. It’s our strength. You take your strength, and you…

Al

Define your strength.

Nannette

Ok. So the D strength is…

John

No, no , no, your strength.

Al

Talk about you.

Nannette

Just being patient and really caring about someone.

Al

Patience.

Clint

Believe passion?

Nannette

I just really care about the people. I’m not faking, that I’m talking.

Al

So when you care, that makes them do what?

Nannette

It makes them feel comfortable and needed like that. It’s not just about me, people get sick of everyone is so self consumed. It’s always about who…

Clint

So, so I think to kind of, maybe I don’t want to put words in your mouth. But you’re you’re passionate about your cause moving forward. So this, you’re relaying the message to the gatekeeper that hey, I have a passion about a cause to make everything better. Sure. I want you to pass this forward.

Nannette

Yes.

John

Okay. I love that idea. I’m going to buck the trend a little bit.

Clint

No shit, you are.

John

Of course I am. As a C, you’ve got all the knowledge and all the facts. That doesn’t help you. When you’re when you’re dealing with the gatekeeper. Make it about them. Right, I cannot tell you how..

Nannette

I think that’s what we’ve all said.

John

But here’s the deal. Like as the C, right, we’re talking about relying on our own strengths.

Al

He’s bucking his own trend, to spew facts.

John

Don’t overwhelm them, don’t treat them like crap. Everyone else has already done that. And it has not been too successful. So show up, make it about them. My life changed completely when I stopped making it about me and making it about them. If you are me, and you were trying to try to talk to this person, whoever that is, when would you call?

Clint

What would they do?

Al

He did that in a great way.

John

They are so part of the conversation at that point and actually making it about them when the last 50 people who have called have not, man, and this is me sliding to an S right. So let’s let’s illuminate that. Because it’s not comfortable for a C.

Nannette

It’s not, it is the most important factor of life across the board.

Al

What is?

Nannette

Making the other person important other than yourself, it just not throw enough on them.

Al

And I’m not I didn’t make this up. I’m borrowing from somebody else. Sure. That’s that permission? marketing, right? Absolutely. You’re right, you’re you’re seeking their permission to move forward by their sympathy, by their engagement.

John

I was working for you, Al. And as I was friends with Geof, who was the person that I worked with after you, and I was like, Man, I’m struggling. I don’t know, I don’t know how to get past these gatekeepers. And he said, make it about them, said go in there and say, absolutely. If you were me, right, like, I’m not even making this up, right? This is exactly from Geof’s mouth. And I’m sure it’s probably from other people as well. And he’s like, make it about them, right? Because they get for lack of better term shit on by everyone else who walks in the door. Because Because treat them as a swim move, I gotta get past this person to get to my goal. And I’ve seen that. And if you make it about them, they love you. Because no one else is doing that. If you were me, and you were trying to get on this guy’s calendar, when would you call?

Al

And this is where women, and I’m going to say this, beat the hell out of men, you know, one day at that front door. And it’s not because they’re prettier, or they know they know more than we know. They are more compassionate in general. And their egos don’t get in the way in general, and they’re not as brass and they’re not as abrupt and they’re not trying to be as cool.

John

For sure. I’m willing to bet on a woman is in a sales role. Hell yeah. If she can get past all the limiting things about being a woman in a sales role, about being assertive.

Clint

Which is what?

John

Well, being assertive.

Hold on. Now, hold on. This is important, right? If you are a woman in a sales role, and you are assertive, good for you. Right? It is absolutely necessary. Don’t let anyone tell you that you’re being a bitch or unapproachable or anything else like that. You’re doing your job and you’re doing it well. Because when you mix that with the empathy.

Al

And the kindness, yeah.

John

You crush, you absolutely crush, right.

Al

That’s the recipe.

So because we can’t take our genitals off and be. So I mean, and I’m saying that politely for sure. But everybody understands what I’m saying. Yeah, yeah.

John

The mindset’s different. So, in wrapping up, right, I think all of us have gave, have given some nuggets, right? anybody, anybody else have anything else to add? Before we launch or before we wrap this up.

Nannette

I think the takeaway is, think of someone other than yourself?

John

For sure. Right? It’s not about getting past this person and treating them as less than you. You can, you can act like you belong, which is important. Because if you show up and you act like you’re supposed to be there, that’ll get you there a lot.

Clint

I want to I want to take the trailer away from the truck here and say that those those people, is that too redneck?

Nannette

You might be a redneck if..

Clint

Sorry. These people that you’re talking to these gatekeepers, let me tell you, they they wear the same logo as the the decision maker. Absolutely. They are a part of a team.

John

Imagine how bad they feel if they let a bad salesperson through. That guy comes out of the office and says, You let this fucking guy through? What What the hell were you thinking?

Al

They’re gonna get yelled at.

John

Crapped on and yelled at and that sucks.

Al

Enough of those times, and hold on, and they don’t make enough to put up with that they really don’t. You’re just bringing misery into their world. Right.

Clint

I think, I think if your your your guide is to go through them, which I think is probably the best bet to sell through them, not around them not, you know.

Al

You meaning with to run through them not like…

Clint

No, no, I’m talking about, yeah, with them. So using them as a part of your process and realizing that they’re a part of the bigger step, a part of the team that you want to be a part of in partnership that you want. Yeah, if you include them in that and you let them know that. I think that that kind of speeds up a lot of stuff.

Al

Yeah. Yeah.

Figure out that arrangement.

John

They’ve got the inside lane already.

Clint

Dude, they know everything about that kind of thing.

John

Absolutely. Right. So you know, ask them.

Al

Provided they’ve been there more than a week.

John

We do a lot of stuff.

Al

But that may be, that helps too. They want some clout.

Right? That there’s a double edged sword. Right?

John

We do a lot of different things or or nows words we do soup to nuts. I’m a little bit curious. If there was one thing that you know, the decision makers had concerns about, frustrations with, what does that look like? Yeah, right ask them that question, make them part of your process as Clint is talking about. That’s what that’s how you get that rapport building that trust in we’re gonna talk a lot more about rapport and trust because I think that those are two important levers that most people don’t pay enough attention to. But, Al’s got one more thing.

Al

No, I was gonna say to wind down sales has a lot of facets to it. Right? So if you haven’t already discerned that, we hope to enlighten you on that so that you really embrace this process of the profession because I call it a real profession. Everybody is in this profession, okay, I don’t care what you do.

John

Not to like cut you off but this is super important. Sales gets treated like a stepchild, the stepchild right and it’s not yeah it’s not. If you are good at what you do, you are in demand.

Al

And here’s the deal guys you can make as much money as you can put in that bank account. it’s all electronic so it goes to the moon.

John

I’m going to flip the script a little bit because I’ve heard this said by by a number of people. Your number one prospect, or your number one client is someone else’s number one prospect, your number one salesperson is someone else’s number one higher. Yeah, so if you are not enabling them and doing the right things and everything else, they’re going to leave. So pay attention your sales people, they’re bringing everyone else in.

Nannette

So true. I just had a guy.

Al

In management, not sales, when you say that.

John

A little bit right but I’m trying to build up the sales people right because we get… right?

Al

Build them up?

Give them the tools to do the job.

John

I’ve worked I’ve worked for some big corporate entities at&t, I’ve worked for Wells Fargo over to sprint right chase BBVA Compass, right? The number third bank in the southern area. Right? Most sales and corporate entities as much of, what have you done for me lately? And that’s terrible.

Clint

Yeah, what have you done for me? And if you haven’t, get the fuck out.

John

If I have five years of crushing your quota and I have one bad year you don’t get to treat me like crap.

Al

Okay, but if they do go get another job.

John

That’s what I’m saying.

Al

Don’t get mad.

John

That’s what I’m saying.

Al

If you’re really good at sales. You go wherever you want to, you get what you want.

John

I’m saying it the nice way, Al’s saying it the mean way.

Nannette

And just last night…

John

Well, not even mean, right.

Al

But grow the nuts to go with your income if your income’s not there, you don’t have it, right.

Nannette

So many people have companies, and they are like, man, everyone wants to do the numbers. No one wants to do the sales. If you’re out there. And you want to do sales and your little part of you knows how to do it. We can teach you how to do it. I’m telling you it is a fantastic.

Al

Well, easy. It will take some guts, some fortitude, and some change on your part we’ve done it was we’ve all changed. We’ve all had to go a different way.

John

It’s simple, but it’s not easy.

Clint

No. Yeah, there’s there’s no winning recipe here. For every single person out there otherwise, or everybody would be truly successful. If you studied one art. there’s just not, you’re all different. You’re going to deal with different situations differently. You got it, you got to build your own process and your own recipe, these nuggets that we talked about today, getting past one situation and sales, one slice of the pie. Take the information and build it into your process. See what works for you build upon that right in the comments back to us what works for you and what didn’t because we’re still learning, we want to hear it. And I think that to wrap this up on the on the gatekeeper side, you were looking for as much help as we’re trying to provide for you too. So once again, yeah, provide the information. John, you want to close this out?

John

Absolutely. Right. We’re further along the path than a lot of people but we don’t have it all figured out. So if you have done more work on yourself or the people you’re talking to, respond back, right.

Nannette

Help each other.

John

Comments, reviews, all that stuff helps us get better. We’re not attached to, we’re right. We’re all just trying to improve and that’s why we’ve gotten to as far as we’ve gotten. So if you’re listening to this, follow us on social media, everything is at Sales Throwdown, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

Clint

Hashtag your team.

John

Hashtag your team. Absolutely. Put it on Twitter. Right. If you’re C, I can’t wait to hear from you. If you are on the team of our producer, Paul.

Al

Paul rocks.

John

Paul rocks, right? He gets no time camera time and no, no my time but he’s legit. We wouldn’t be here. So whatever team you’re on, D, I, S or C or Paul, put it out there on Twitter, right? Like we want to hear from that stuff, because that’s how we get better. If you like, Clint more than me. I can’t wait to read it.

Clint

Imagine that.

John

Right? So follow us on social media. If you’re watching us on YouTube, check out the cups we’re gonna be selling something similar to this very, very soon.

Al

Giving them away too.

John

And shirts, shirts if your team C and you want to rock that shirt across your chest, game on man. I’m down. Take a picture. I want to see it. So does Al.

Clint

Let’s see how far to the the ends of the earth. You can take Team D to Mount Everest, I want to see it.

John

Follow us, if you get any value out of this, if you know someone who’s struggling with gatekeepers, share this with them. If you have questions, tweet us, Facebook us, Instagram us. We want to help. We’ll see you guys very very soon. Have a great night. Good night.