Episode 19: Gap Between Yes and Getting Paid in Sales


Welcome to the show everybody. Today we are talking about the gap between the yes and actually getting paid. And the things that I want you to take away is that it’s different for everybody, but it shows up in your world in some way, shape or form, whether it’s building partnerships or relationships. However that shows up. We all have some nuggets for you here. If you know someone else who is building relationships or selling in partners or channel partners. Share this with them. There’s some good information that they can implement tomorrow. If you’re on social media, please follow us, everything is at Sales Throwdown. If you’re watching us on YouTube, please subscribe and hope you enjoy the show.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main event. In the D corner we have Clint The Cleaver Bigelow. In the I corner we have Al The Gambler Daniel. In the S corner we have Nan The Promoter Fallman. In the C corner, we have John Small Mountain Hill. Let’s get ready to throwdown!

Welcome to the show everybody. Today we are talking about kind of an interesting that happens for lots of people. If you’re selling kind of individual products, or if you’re working with partners, or if you’re working on like a relationship and things like that, there’s sometimes this gap that pops up from Yeah, we’d like to work with you on the next one. And when that next one actually starts. And of all the people here, I probably have the least experience of having to deal with is now in my current role. I know it pops up a lot for Nannette and Al and Clint, so, but this is important, you know, how do you stay top of mind whenever they’ve got established relationships and habits? Oh, I need this. I just pick up the phone and call the old contact, not the new contact. So with Clint starting kind of in a new role in a new city and stuff like that, I’m curious. How How does that work?

I think I’m on the brink of a lot of those relationships right now where it’s kind of late for me to come into a lot of the stuff that we have going because it’s new customers for me. It’s a whole new world, a whole new market. So I’m running into currently, a whole bunch of people to say, oh, man, that sounds great. I like the way you’re doing business. Let’s do it on the next one, I can get you in on this one. Or, you know how you guys, you know, you came in mid stride to this project, we had to pick somebody else. Yeah, we’ll use you on the next one, for sure. Kind of, to your point is, how do I, one, How do I get that commitment? That’s a true commitment. Not just all right, brushing me off, because that’s a lot of times people say that whether you’re, you know, selling to consumers with a product or you’re selling business to business, it’s really easy for somebody to say, you know, hey, we’ll use you on the next one, call me in six months. So, you know, sales people, we tend to, we tend to run out of that meeting with you know, We think we’re on a high, we feels great. Let’s go put this in our CRM when we do it, right.

And that happens a lot in Nannette and Al’s realm as well, sure.

But you know, specific to any conversation you have around sales or if you’re furthering a process. If you’re not on the calendar, you have nothing. Oh, I absolutely agree. Meaning and it doesn’t have to be on the calendar for any other reason, then a touch back or re-, you know, a look see or a conversation centered around, where are you? You know, can I call you back and get a gauge on how this process is going forward? But so many times we walk away thinking we have something and all we have is blue sky? Well, because you make assumptions. Oh, this guy said this thing or he’s ready to go now and and that’s on you because you didn’t get clarification on what he meant by in a little while or the next time Well, okay. When you say that Are we talking six months? Are we talking a year, first of all, get a time frame. And then after that, figure out where your checks and balances. It’s kind of like when an airplane leaves New York City going to Europe. They don’t just fly directly to their destination they get so far and they have a contingency plan. And then they get a little bit further and there’s another part of its What’s our escape route? When do we call it over and go to Greenland or Iceland to try to land this thing versus going into the ocean? And then you get to a point of no return. So all of those things should be in a sales acumen as well.

I cannot tell you how many times in the beginning I did not I was like, super excited about the yes but didn’t get the next step. You have to have steps just like what Al was saying. Just make sure you capture that because the minute I realized I need to know the next step it was boom, things just started progressing. You have to know your net like just exactly what all the guys are saying you have to know your next step always.

And when when I learned that right because I’m guilty of this, right? I mean, what I mean whenever I was working for Al, you know, when a doctor was like, yeah, we’ll take you know, we’ll take a look at using you on the next one. I’m walking to the thing, fist pumping, thinking, awesome, you know.

but not to interrupt you. But before we move, but it’s not you knowing the next step. It’s the sales process. Yeah, knowing that next way and then it’s on their calendar because you have a next step, but if you didn’t convey it, or communicate and get some feedback, and you walked out with blue sky,

It has to be mutual in your relationship, you you know what your next step is, you know, where y’all are, go what the goal is, for each of you.

So for the specifically, right, once I learned that, I’m like, Oh, this is just a question I ask now, and I have no problem asking this question. I’m sure Clint doesn’t either. Right. But for you and a little bit for Al, right if someone says yes, and you know, you need to ask this next question. Do you feel any pressure to I don’t want to ask this because it’s gonna

Not anymore because once you have failure from it, you go, oh, God did not work. You know, you they may be genuinely had. Yes, but If it’s not written down and you’ve got it on there, like Al said on the calendar, then they might forget they might be busy, someone else might come in. But once you get a commitment, people want to honor their commitment in most cases. So you’re gonna get that next step.

Let’s, let’s talk about that next step real quick, because lingo is everything, how we, how we say what we’re about to say, staying away from that traditional sales. Tonality is very tough, because this is an instance where a lot of us want to dive into that. Okay, so if I, for example, you gave me Yes. Next week, I’m going to put you on the books for Tuesday at three o’clock. Is there anything that maybe or might come up that might not… see how salesy starts to give you so, for example, a lot of the times when I have to ask that question, that’s tough for me, John, you said earlier, it might not be tough for you to ask. Well it’s only tough because I don’t want to sound salesy. And I don’t want to get out of all the good work that I just did to get to the Yes, I don’t want to ruin it over a stupid comment. So So for me, it’s a little more. It’s more like, Hey, man, I’m gonna hit you up next week. I need you to commit. Like, seriously, man, you know, like, Don’t Don’t flake out on me. You know, man, okay. And it’s like, oh, hey, man, dude, I’m not gonna flake out on you. Look, come on, man. You know, we all do that, right? It’s a little more conversational, you know, a little more… Course it’s what bonding and rapport you built with this customer? Depends on how you can ask that question, because there’s some really professional people that need that regimented. Oh, yeah.

To me, what you sound like you’re not groveling.

That’s what I’m saying. We made an agreement, don’t flake out on me.

Well but even a little less in your face for me would be what’s your schedule look like next week? Right? I mean, you should go to the assumption of you’ve said yes, we’re doing the dance. What’s next week look like for you? If you know, Tuesday mornings open, how about I give you a call then. Let’s put it on the calendar and I’ll check back in and, and that’s sort of that up, up front, you know, scenario where you are where you’re, you’re getting a commitment. And like back to what Nan said people want to honor their commitments. Professionals do.

Well most I think it’s funny because you just saw a very big shift between a high D and and high I really quickly in the same conversation saying the same damn thing, right? And so, you know most of us are going to develop a pattern of how we’re having this conversation. We should, right we should set this conversation up from start to finish in the same manners we should, you know, develop and as people start to communicate, you start to develop that speech pattern. That’s how you end it to I mean, that’s how you move forward.

He said, You better know who you’re talking to. Now, you don’t want to sound like a jerk if the person is this really kind person you’re like, okay.

But don’t worry about screwing it up, guys. At least you’re doing it at least you’re reaching out saying oh, I don’t have a firm commitment here and just let it come out of your mouth. Well how would we you know and fumble with it and they’ll help you out. You know, the other side’s not going to Sit there make you do all the work? No, I agree if you’ve gotten to that point, what makes sense as far as getting back in touch with you? I mean, there’s 10 different ways to skin that cat. Now, if you think the guy’s kind of iffy, well, maybe you need to back up and you’re trying to close this deal too soon. So obviously have some awareness that you might have not gotten done yet. Or you gotta Yes, but it really wasn’t one whenever they won’t make a firm commitment for your next conversation.

I think what you said what makes sense? I think that is a great question.

I love phrasing my questions around Hey, like, doesn’t make sense, you know, because then it’s not, I don’t need you to do this. I’m not asking you to take this leap. Like, Hey, does it make sense to work on this together? I love, I love that phrasing.

You know, for you, John and your business selling CRM management, but you actually deal with this. You say you don’t deal with this a lot, but you deal with it in a little bit different realm, in the fact that they don’t need the product every month, like a monthly renewal. So for example, in construction, you’re going to do one construction job and then you’re going to do another and you’re going to do another and another. Yeah, that’s growth. That’s business. That’s what you do for work. Right? So I want to know on the second project, I didn’t get you on the first one. But on the second one, do we have a shot? Do we have a yes? can we work together? We partners? And if not, the second, is it the third. For these guys it’s surgeries, right? Every surgery there, they can potentially bring in a new equipment line and a new rep

scripts, bracing and you know, absolutely

ancillary products, right.

So so for you, it’s more about when they’ve done and use the potential that I’ve sold them, right, you maybe they’ve grown right, maybe now they they needed 10 users, and now they need 50 because they’re growing because your product helps them grow, right?

You broaden your reach, you’re not just focused on that one.

So yours is more kind of on the upsell side of like making sure you’re staying in contact and making sure that their products are still met because they’re growing right and that and if you stay out of that, right if you if you just let it go, you’ve sold it once and, made myself.

You know, you bring up a really good point because whenever I started the business, I was I really was kind of running away from something that was just like a one time offer, which is kind of how I was viewing, you know, setting up CRM and creating a document sales process, you know, you’re only going to use this thing once. And then when I started, I did like the first four or five of them, and then people periodically would come back and be like, Okay, I need to make some adjustments. And I’m like, oh, now there’s like a monthly maintenance plan that goes along with this and stuff. And then now the offering is we get you set up, you know, if you want, we’ll manage it and send you your numbers, it’s kinda like a fractional sales manager role. And then, periodically, once or twice a year, depending upon how much volume you have going through there, we can take a deep dive into that data and try to figure out how we can make improvements and do more with less and things like that. So there are some up sells and then we do some like lead gen and some other stuff like that because I don’t like having just one offering that’s transactional and then it goes away.

But that that is what a lot of people how a lot of people sell or should be selling. You’ve got your door opener because we do in our business. I one thing from me and I’ll find 15 other things that I want to talk to you about you may not buy all of them they may not all be a fit yeah but it opens a door for further understanding about your business some of the, you get more problems that you can solve once you get that door open and you’re doing business.

That’s how you started, that one product.

I kind of compare this to the guy that sold me my last truck he’s always, he calls me.

One with the hole in the gas tank or one without.

Oh, too soon!

I’m sorry guys, that’s inside…

Well that surely wasn’t his fault.

No, but this guy calls me you know, once a month once ever, you know, especially on those hot the holidays and the birthdays and stuff he’ll call and just say Hey, man, how you still like a new truck? You still love it? You know? That’s good follow up. It is it’s good follow up. I know the reason why he’s doing it of course because I live in the world and and you’re kind of an idiot if you don’t know. Absolutely right. I know. He’s trying to get me to buy the next. The next best thing I know. He’s trying to get me to come back in and trade up. do all these things, that’s great. But if he’s really good at what he does, all he’s doing is making sure what he sold me six, six months ago, six years ago is still you know, on the same role on the same page. He’s maintaining the relationship he is maintaining, but the point of it is, is that if he doesn’t do that, when I go to buy my next truck, he doesn’t exist.

Well, because because the way that most people do it is they follow up on the on the anniversary. It’s been a year and because you haven’t called this person for it, they have no idea who the hell you are anymore. Absolutely. And why are you calling me?

Why did you do that?

At least though he’s following up with a consistent cadence so that he most people aren’t don’t have their walls up as much as you do?

Yeah, well, the cool thing about him though, is when I do buy another truck I’m I’m going to him. Absolutely, I mean, right, why else would I go anywhere else, I’ve already established relationships.

At least he gets the first right of refusal. You can’t do the deal, now maybe have to go down the road. Absolutely. But Wouldn’t you love it if all your business gave you the first look at their next item? I would have a private jet, I wouldn’t be flying commercial.

I really think I really think that some of that comes down to like, what’s your intention? Is your intention just to sell this guy and make the commission and then on to the next one or are you trying to form relationships?

Now I will give you the backside problem to some of this that happens in my industry is that don’t be the annoying mosquito either, right? Because I will sell to you. I’ll give you a chance. As a buyer, I’ll give you a chance if you’re that annoying salesperson. It’s not going to be the big one. It’s not going to be a bunch of them. It’s going to be the littlest one I have so that I got you to shut the hell up. It happens right? I would expect that happens in Doc and Nan’s business.

Why would you do that as opposed to just saying hey, look, you’re pissing me off. I’m over this


People don’t, people aren’t very few people are in your face. People pretend to be like that.

Oh, have you met Clint?

Okay. I’m saying as a generic hire.

Clint’s sliding. No, he’s talking about the vast majority of us. The truth is, you just don’t want to be a total jerk. You don’t, you know, you put up with the annoyance. And then like you said, you toss a little bone. So they go away for a little bit before they come back.

It also goes to your leadership side, your sales management guys or your business development managers, whatever you call them, setting those, I need you to go hit this guy once a week and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? So they they go and they get their quota. What they don’t realize is that they’re annoying the piss out of the customer. And when they do finally make a sale, it’s going to be very small.

In our business, it blows your relationship up. And once you piss the head guy off, because there’s only one there’s not a committee, it’s one guy and it’s called the position that you’re selling into. If you disrupt him in that way. What happens is you get silenced and it goes, you know, the line goes dead.

Yeah, when I was selling pharmaceuticals, there was a lead doctor that everyone in the Metroplex wanted. And I cannot tell you how many times that people from the big pharmaceutical companies would Get shut down out of that office, they were not allowed back there. And I got and I think I’ve told this story before this note just saying she can come in anytime she doesn’t have to go the front. And it was only because I didn’t I wasn’t obnoxious. Just what you’re talking about where you’re just like in someone’s face every week, because that’s what the big pharmaceutical companies required out there.

Because you’re not always there to make a sale. You’re there to take a pulse, build a relationship. And if you don’t give some value that’s worth giving Exactly.

a pain in the butt.

Yeah, because you’ve made that sale or you’ve got that initial contact where they bought something from you. Be back in there, but be a presence of value, not one of annoyance and know if you are and back away from that and find a different pathway or change something in yourself to where you’re not so damn annoying and driving these people to the way and you’ll know if that’s happening because you’ll have a sale, and then silence a sale. And if you’re not thinking if you just think it’s your industry Most of the time, you’re wrong.

And it comes at the end of your desperation. Right? Like you’re so desperate you would do anything for that job. And you get the sale. Yeah. And then you get so desperate six months again, you get the sale. Yeah, that’s the same cycle, right? And they’re selling to you because they know that and you’ve cut your number so much that it’s hard for them to even say no, at that point, but you have to make a sale because you’re there every day you put in all this work, you annoyed the shit out of him so bad. Like that’s the wrong way to do this after line. Right? And and for me, I will tell you as a high D, this is the worst part of my game. I mean, just to keep in contact after I sell it.

Oh, because you’re Yeah, because Yeah. Because D’s out of the box are not, we are not relationship people. We did it high five. It was successful. I’ll

We did it, high five, it was successful. I’ll talk to you later.

But as you stated earlier, you continue for the next project.

I’m just, I’m saying that it’s not easy for me. Like it’s a it’s a necessity that I know that I have to do, and I and I know that it’s got to be a part of my step. Once I you know, even let’s just say after we get a PO we do a successful construction job. It is so hard for me to keep that relationship going. Because I’m task, I’m completely task driven. And I don’t care about your emotions, and I don’t. We did good. Successful. Let’s move on. Right. And I’m very much that way. So until you have another one, why are we talking? What’s the point of this? Absolutely. But But I will tell you that because I don’t do that. I don’t do as well as I could.

So you do see the value, it’s just not built into your schematic.

Internally in my in my own mind, this is not something that’s natural. For me. That’s something that I really have to work at.

But that goes back to each one of us has one of those things. Oh, yeah. I mean, from our own dynamic, and we don’t do.

Confrontation versus relationship building. I love confrontation, but I hate that relationship.

Yeah, and I’m all about relation and I want to minimize confrontation. I mean, but it but those things happen in life, but I sometimes have Stand up to people that, you know, I’m not probably the best at it. And I have to work through that

Well, and you don’t necessarily have to do it yourself. Right? So if you have a…

I was about to say, I usually hire that out.

There’s a whole company structure, it takes it off of the person who closes the deal in and that’s why most marketing agencies have got account managers, right? They’re not they’re not closing that deal. They’re not bringing the relationship in or anything else. You have a sales team for that and then as soon as they onboard, they’re like Hey, good job, buddy. Let’s go get the next one, stop talking to this person cause you’re gonna ruin it.

And that’s, that’s good. I’m just not large enough to have a marketing and an onboarding. Nan and I work in unison on some accounts. And that’s where Nan comes into play a lot of times and I’m able to back out of the situation.

That’s a it’s a good point, though, is that you may have to sell through Nan she may be your vessel or vice versa. Right. And and that’s something that I run into a lot is it because I’m brash and harsh and upfront. I may not connect with this customer. But I have three four guys on my team that these guys match make really well. And I have to kind of cheer from the sideline to saying, hey, I need you to get this question answered, I don’t care how you do it. I don’t care whatever language you guys are speaking because it’s Chinese to me. Go out there and find the answer to this question and bring it back. I don’t have to be in the room. I don’t even care to be in the room. I’m trying to get to a common goal for the team. I’m trying to win, right. Is that?

That’s the big.

Well, but so I have two questions. Right. So before you had done this work about knowing who you are, and knowing your stuff, if you heard someone talking about how important follow up was to like relationships and stuff, how did you view that?

Well, I didn’t probably know what it was one, you know, honestly. But I also know like after action reports are huge. Yeah, come from the military side of things and especially combat like if you’re not learning from your mistakes and absolutely weaknesses and also your strengths. If you’re not categorize and all that stuff into, you know, to move forward. It’s big and also maintaining relationships, right. So you have a success. It’s just a win, right? You have a huge win with a group of people. You need to, I think you need to really let that blossom right. Because it could be something fantastic. If you let it go, it’s going to wither and die. Yeah. So I think I understand, even going back as a kid, like I understand, you know, maintaining those relationships, it just doesn’t come natural. Something I have to really dig for.

And do you struggle with letting other people like, you know, that’s. I don’t

I don’t. Really? You know, as a as a really, I don’t either, as a high D.

I mean, it makes sense to me that that you wouldn’t struggle with that. I find it kind of surprising that he’s okay saying, Okay, cool. You got the ball, you run with the ball, I think

As long as they follow my plan, right, so it’s different, right? So it’s not the only time that I really feel that I have to jump in there and get it done myself was when I feel that other people are slipping, right. Yeah. So I have to go in there and get it done.

You find some feedback that’s reflective of a poor team or somebody missed the mark.

What I’m realizing now and maybe it’s just getting a little bit older being father being a lot of bit of different things, is that I might be the guy letting it slip. There’s the other side of the coin right is maybe my team needs to take this over because I’m the I’m the roadblock excellent right?

Well but are better yet is it that you because my ripe old age, I find that I know that I don’t handle it very well. Handle what? Like gatekeepers. So Nan makes the first approach of wherever doing a joint like venture into an office. I just sometimes I get annoyed and I know it in myself and it reflects in my speech and it is you know, you have those little, little things that you just Yeah, they they don’t come out as well as they could if somebody else did it. And it’s not calling yourself weak. It’s just knowing that just that’s just not your forte for sure. And finding a way to work around it. Guys, you’re not going to be great at everything, you should be great at most things in your job, but if you know that you’re deficient, or you know something sets you on your ear and ruins the rest of the process for you, find a workaround, whether it’s a another person to listen right to the conversation, if you’re talking through the sales processes, if you bring somebody else in, they can hear things that you don’t hear. Absolutely right, and from a different perspective, so that your take is now when you come out you debrief. And you think it was one way and they said, Well, no, I kind of perceived it another way. And you’re like, well, I thought it might be okay. Thanks for telling me that right. Just food for thought.

Interesting. Because so in website world, you know, with the old company, we had moved away from just cold calling individuals and small businesses and everything and started exclude exclusively focusing on agencies, and hey, we’re not full service. We don’t do all the marketing stuff. We just we just build websites. How do you guys handle that now? Right and trying to build relationships with those people. And everyone was like, Oh, yeah, man, that sounds awesome. You know, we’ll get you on the next one. So then I’m walking around thinking, I’ve got this huge pipeline of deals, right? And then eventually, you get to that day like, that’s people who said they were going to use me you’re actually using me What is going on?

There should be a basket of next one’s right. You should show that off. Now. You really should, guys, you should have this basket. And every time you hear next one, you have this little emoji, and you throw it in there, and then show everybody who comes in and goes, how’s it going? And then you take them on the go, look how many next ones, go spin these Yeah. And then try to pay your bills at the end of the month. See how that goes.

But I think it’s important when you talk in putting stuff like this in your sales CRM, because you can get really hung up on the fact that your hit ratios and your wins are really small, because you’re putting all of these next ones in there, right? So qualifying your customers to go into your CRM and tracking devices or it’s really important for me to make sure That I have next steps accounted for. And the thing is actually real that I’m putting in because a next step of like, hey, next time, we’ll do it, and you go put that in your CRM. That’s a loss if you don’t do anything with it,

because you just brought up a good point if you’re not at least checking to see if, because let me back up. If you’re not at least saying, thanks for telling me that Clint. But a lot of times when people say I’ve got the next deal, they’re just being polite. They don’t want to tell me No, well, it’s not anything. If you don’t challenge it, then you haven’t tested what that next one means.

Yeah, no, I know why you’re raising your eyebrows a little bit over there. Because you’re talking about KPIs. Right? You’re talking about well, if I don’t track all those times that I’ve talked that’s really hard to move forward. And I understand that what I’m saying for is in your actual what’s real and what we wanted loss.

Man I’d have, I’d have to many notes, I couldn’t get back to it all.

Okay, sorry. Go ahead, finish with that.

And I understand so That is to me, and maybe I’m making this really complicated, but that’s two very different tracking things. Right? So what do you mean? So that is tracking things like that where it’s a, maybe.

Be specific, you’re talking about maybes versus what?

Actual qualified jobs that go into my pipeline. I actually

But there’s the confusion, some people lump them all. That’s the same thing. You’re saying that you Well, you do not divide them out. I do too. I so but most people don’t know I’m going to the guy who puts it all in one basket.

I brought this up because I knew it, it raises eyebrows, and I knew he’d be excited.

When I feel like if you’ve got multiple things in play, right, you got direct to your client, and then you got partnerships, everything else. Those are separate pipelines. Right. And so in website road whenever we had probably, you know, 10 to 15 different agencies throughout the US that were sending us business, right, so I kept the pipeline of how often when was the last time I got a deal from one of these people? When’s the last time I closed the deal from one of these people? Right, so that way I’m maintaining, how was this relationship actually looking? And not just like, I feel pretty good about it, because that’s a hard analytic. Exactly.

Whenever one of our partners sent us like an actual deal, okay, cool. We’re going to work together on this one, I need you to call them and everything else that would be in my direct client pipeline. Right? So it’s different, but I would call these agencies Hey, you know, how do you handle this? Oh, we hate website work. Okay. Tell me more about that, you know, blah, blah, blah. Okay, yeah, we like to use you for the next one. Okay, awesome. How often? Are you getting these kinds of deals coming in? Right, and then I’m trying to qualify around their tempo and their cadence. And then

That’s that, that’s a challenging question that I say you must ask to know whether this is a next one or really should go into that category of the pipeline, and the sale that you’re currently working on.

Right. And Clint is gonna hate the way that I phrase this question, but this, this has made me…

His arms are crossed over here directly facing you.

Exactly. His body language is already saying that he’s gonna hate it.

I’ll relax.

Hey Clint, you know, a lot of times when I’m having these conversations, I talked to people and they say yeah, we’d like to use you on the next one. When does that next one actually take place? And you know to not be the annoying salesperson, when should I follow up with you?

It actually works really well for me. Oh, really? Okay. I thought that was great. You practiced.

Oh man, the first three times I said that, it was brutal.

I got back to my point that if you don’t practices don’t look at yourself and make those mistakes that you just admitted to me we all have where you stumble and you’re like, I sound like a damn idiot. Well, you if you’re not, then you’re not growing. You’re not nobody gets this right the first go round.

See if you added one question mark in there in that like, well, maybe? You don’t like that upbeat on your tonality? you’d hate that. I would, I would have clicked. Because now I doubt you.

Hi, doggie. Yeah.

You were very direct instead of questionable, right. So okay. I mean, it just, it’s

Tonality is, I mean, That’s a big part of what it is you guys, but

I make a lot of bold statements like I’d hang up on you. Maybe I wouldn’t, I’d probably let you finish and then I just drag you on because it’s fun at this point, you know, as a buyer, but the point of it is, is that if somebody speaks to you directly, then you should speak to them directly. And vice versa, you know, if you talk about compassion, love and all this stuff, and, you know, how do you talk to those people? Right? I say love I just is a different way of saying love. Okay. The love

You say the porn version of love, right?

You know, the, the thing that I have been experimenting a lot in my calls is with kind of being vulnerable, right? Like, like not having to be perfect, you know, kind of falling on the sword, and Nannette and Al and I have talked about this recently. But the thing that I’m noticing is I can’t do any of that with Clint because at least with Clint and I don’t know this is specific to all these I’d be curious to hear Clint’s opinion on this. Any any vulnerability to kind of further the conversation like asking You’re asking the question of like, is that really important? Right? That’s kind of a vulnerable question. Because I’m kind of I’m kind of opening up around this idea that I don’t know your role as well as you do. And look at me shaking his head. He hates that. Oh,

yeah, it’s tough. It’s tough. Because you’re, you’re, you’re breaking into something that we were talking about getting something done. We’re on task. We’re on point, we’re headed that direction. And now you just asked me and I know, you know, an open ended question.

But I disagree. Because you like to teach, you’ve got things that you know a lot about sure, and you, because we’ve had these conversations outside of this room, where you’re really engaging about how that process would happen, and your analytics and things that that are important to you. So if we speak to tell me what’s important, it helped me understand. Yeah, I think it’s how you approach the individual with the same questioning.

Oh, absolutely. Right. And, and that’s where the tone comes in. Right? Because I think if I’m talking to Clint and I say, hey, help me out. Is that a lot? How does that impact the the overall picture, I’m probably going to get a decent answer. Whereas like, if I’m talking to an S or an I, I would go more vulnerable.

You can rephrase that a little bit, right? So hey help me out here. I’m already kind of like why the fuck do I have to help you out? I’m already going down a path, right versus saying, hey, just tell me how does this impact you? Okay, see what I’m saying,

So a little more direct.

Now. I’m like, Okay, well, I’ll tell you all about it. Because that’s what I do, I’ll tell you.

You’re not you’re not people driven. So you don’t really want to help me. Whereas these two.

Guys out there, listen to this, because it is not what you say. It’s what they hear that is important to get out of your own f-ing way, and know that… Right?

I can say the same question 14 different ways and they all impact 14 different people different ways,

Because you’re paying attention to who you’re talking to three. Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of people don’t do that out there. That’s what a lot of people don’t do.

So it is scripts, right. And, you know, like, I talked to Nannette about, you know, hey, let’s as a team, help me, help me here as a team, you know, really trying to build this partnership here. Can you tell me a little bit about what bothers you? keeps you up at night? That’s very different. You can’t say that to me because I’ll shut down right?

But I’ve heard you talk to Nannette and you are you’re being he’s being genuine when you say that’s how you speak to Nannette. And it’s, you know, it’s out of kindness and matching her tonality.

So, Clint, what do you want to hear that same statement, but how do you want to hear it?

Okay, but wait a second, you just spoke to Clint, the direct way and it’s not natural for you but you’ve dealt with him enough. I mean, because we’ve been around each other long enough.

Tell me exactly what you want to hear. Exactly. Okay.

You didn’t you didn’t mix words and that’s what he just said. So guys out there that was listen to that. This is how we’ve been around each other long enough. So we’ve come to know each other. But when you walk in and you are sit your first meeting someone, start picking up on their tonality, how they respond to that’s such a short is that that’s the professionalism we’re hoping you guys find.

So we are hoping you From this great

This is also why like teams, I like to go into sales conversations with teams. Did you, I missed that?

Well, I said when we go in there, she’ll hear things that I don’t hear.

Oh yeah.

I didn’t say it the same way. And I add 10 more words than you normally use, that’s what lost ya and that’s why you didn’t hear it.

But I do that a lot with you know, I’ll go into a meeting with a customer and I’ll take somebody that’s kind of opposite personality of me or different, just different. And I’ll watch the customers reactions with him and, and know like, okay, he crossed his arms, he sat back in his chair, man, he changed right in there. Why did he change? And I’ve got a process that it’s really hard to do by yourself because you’ve, you’ve got, you’re in it.

Clint’s walking by and the janitors coming out from cleaning the, hey,ome with me. Come on, we don’t have time for that. Leave the gloves on.

Put this hat on. I mean, I would.

Why not? If it would work.

But I think it does, I think it really gives you an advantage. I do, actually.

So you were gonna say something a moment ago Nannette.

We can move on.

Well, the thing that’s so important to remember, right is we have spent a lot of time together outside of this room, right? And so the way you’re, if you’re really clued in and looking for it, you see the fact that you know, then that slides to that D to talk to Clint and and will sometimes slide to the C to talk to me and stuff like that. So, so you’re seeing this happened, right?

But what you’re saying is we’ve all learned to deal with each other because absolutely because we tried to to be to make this a success or what we vision, or envision is a success.

The first four times meeting Clint, I was like man, this guy’s a dick.

And I never though, people are just different. And you go into these offices or these clients and you identify, and it’s way easier than you think it’s just a matter of that’s why bringing someone with you so you can Kind of teaming up is really important role playing is really important.

Let me throw something back at you though because you say we’ve we spent a lot of time together. We spent hours together.

I was, I would not as much as…

In depth, we’ve only known each other maybe six months. And let me tell you in my sale cycle, that’s half.

No, come on, man. Really?

I mean, really having good conversations.

Oh, yeah, I guess so, yeah.

Well, in your business, mine, it’s much quicker.

But what I’m saying is that you, you might be in that selling cycle where it may take you six months to develop relationships with a customer or have conversations. So if we, if that’s what it took here, you know, two, three months, maybe that’s what it takes with your customer, but I don’t sell before you’re ready.

But I said I think people are that there are a lot of people in quicker sales arenas where the cycles quicker, it just means you have to be better at analyzing these people. And maybe you don’t have to go in and step in as deep because your projects not as big as what yours is. That’s what I’m saying. Yeah not as many moving parts here one on one it’s a yes or no maybe the sale happens right then and there so so take this and use it to your advantage in whatever sales scenario you’re in.

When you’re at the Bunny Ranch, and you’ve got a girl that charges 100 bucks versus 1700 bucks there’s gotta be gotta be a little more conversation.

All right, but But hold on hold on.

Clint, you’ve been to the Bunny ranch, you want to tell me your story?

No, Clint is actually made a inadvertently a really good point here. Thank you. That the more the more top end your service or your product is.

I couldn’t think of any other way to put it in everybody’s lingo.

That’s fair. The more you want to charge for something or the more at a premium your service or product is, the more trust there has to be.

That went over my head Sorry, man. Yeah, I was just bringing this up. Okay, now I know what you’re talking about.

If everyone else is selling this cup for like 40 bucks and you want to sell this cup for 80 bucks, there’s got to be more trust and more rapport with this person who if you want them to buy it from you as opposed to just buying it from everybody else.

Or you know that they were picked up a high end grand in a certain category and the brand speaks for itself so you cut to the chase and say you’ve got great tastes there Mr. I see where you’re going with this and you know value and boom you you hit it because of the brand gets you halfway there right or three quarters of the way there.

Yeah, that’s what I’m saying

Brand awareness is huge. Or you find that some guys a cheap ass and he’s like, Well, I’m not looking, you know, they’re shying away they’re going down the ladder will bring them down the ladder if that’s where they really need to be and you’re solving their problem and they’re price conscious. Get to it. Yeah, right. If you’re if you’re and that’s what you say, sir, I guess you’re looking for value, right? Come right this way. Let me show you where your money’s going to be spent the best. So that guy bites on that all day long.

I’ll uh, I’ll simplify it a little bit. Like I didn’t. No, not not you my previous my previous conversation, my bunny ranch conversation.

No, go back there now that I know what we’re talking about.

So you know if you’re a construction firm hires myself, but you also have to restock the toilet paper every week, right? That’s two different sales, right? I’m coming to you from a million dollar point of view that you gotta trust me to trust to your customers. And we’ve got to make this all work as a big partnership versus the guy that’s selling toilet paper selling the same guy. He’s making the same decision, the president of the company signing off on this versus that it’s all expenditures, right? That conversation on selling toilet papers probably happens in about five minutes, maybe 10. You know, mine probably takes six or seven months, but we’re selling to the same person. We just have to realize what value we’re bringing, and what level of conversation that we need to have.

And every every rear’s got to be wiped, so you know, and they’re both important. Exactly. You know, that they can’t move without either one of them and I mean, move right.

You want to, you want to fire up the office. Don’t put toilet paper on the rolls.

Yeah, you’ll have a mutiny on your hands pretty damn quick.

So you were talking a minute ago about like shorter selling cycles and stuff, you?


And I took my brother in law to go to go with him to go buy a new car because he was he never done it before, was terrified. And he was like, well, John like sales, I’ll take him with me. And I was like, Man, I’m down. Let’s go.

Oh, my goodness. How’d that go?

It was it was interesting.

Should’ve brought the whole team.

Yeah, we need to do that one day, go help somebody buy a car. How much fun would that be.

I love, I love my brother in law to death. Super. Well, he’s, he’s, he’s anxious, right? He’s excited. Well, he’s an anxious individual. Oh, he doesn’t like conflict. He He is probably an S. Right. I’ve never put him through the assessment. And it’s hard with like, really close family, loved ones and everything. But I think he’s an S before anything else. And so we go to this lot and he’s just terrified, right? He’s just like, I don’t want to talk to anybody and anything else. And it’s one of those things where you pull up, you see the guys sprinting for the exits to be the first guy out there to like shake our hand, like claim us as his deal. And this guy comes out and he’s like, he’s like, Hey, I said, Yeah, we want to test drive this one. Right? I’m not screwing around with this guy, right? It’s like It’s like cool. I’m taking a half day to go to go help my brother in law buy this car. We’re getting the shit done. You know, I’m screw bonding and rapport. Absolutely. I’m, hey,

Don’t even know, need to know your name where are the car keys?

Exactly, yeah. Hey, we want to test drive this one and this guy. I mean, God love him, it, this is a, I guess a good question if you phrase it the right way. And he goes in and what’s a good outcome? And I was like, I was like, mentally, it kind of set me back on my heels. And the reason why I don’t like it is because I think there’s a better way to ask it, but like it because it broke the rapport so much. And I got mad. I got a litle mad. And I said, We’ll buy the damn car. And he was like, he was like, Okay, cool. Let me go get the keys. Like don’t challenge me dude like we’re here. But if he had phrased it Maybe 10% different, there would have been no break in the rapport, it just would have been normal conversation.

Difference between a seminar and training every day.

But what, did you buy the car?

Yeah, we bought the car?

Okay, then then he won, and it was OK. He took a risk. Your being upset, ultimately worked itself out? Yeah. And I only go back that for real reason. If you throw a challenge like that guy did, you take a very large risk of losing the sale? Yeah. And if you know that, that’s your risk reward. Go and do it. Here’s the deal. And you will you may win a few but it’s like being in Vegas. You know, you lose a lot.

I don’t have any problem with asking a question that way. I think it’s really smart. Because I think that as a as a car salesperson, you can spend a lot of time on test drives that don’t ever actually go anywhere. So I don’t have a problem with the question. The way that he phrased it to me and I’m kind of in this the nurturing stage as I’m trying to look out for my brother in law, just did not fly for me, but it wasn’t bad enough for me to like leave.

But what I heard you do is challenge and go right to this point. So Maybe he was just matching your tongue in meeting you back with.

I think it was pretty good.

Yeah, yeah. And if anyone you bought the car so.

Why does it gotta be win or lose? Hold on, I didn’t walk in there with this idea of like, I gotta win this thing.

No, no, no. So that’s not where I was going with it. He won the sale.

You probably did. Young guy too, right?

Because I love I love talking to the guys on the on the test drive you know because they want to talk about all the features and benefits and if you look down here at the screen, and I’m like, man, how long you been doing this? Like two months and I said how’s it going so far and he’s like struggling.

Well then y’all built some bonding and rapport after the first challenge.

I just don’t want to do the whole thing to where to where you’re going to steer me to go looking at a car that and that because my brother in law knew exactly what he wanted. Yeah, right. So we walked in there and I was like, cool. I want to look at this car. And yeah, I don’t know if I’ve told the story about going to the car lot and he was like, Man, what are you looking for and I was like, I don’t want white and I don’t want leather and he pulls up with this Altima with white and leather, and I was like, What the hell are you doing? I just told you this is not what I wanted.

Guy goes, I can’t hear out of this ear.

That’s why it’s called pre-owned. You don’t get to make all those choices.

I mean, he’s not wrong.

Only car on the lot, right?

A long, long time ago. Sorry, this is a short story. But I think it’s really funny. Like, my credit is terrible, because like, I made some mistakes as a kid. And so I’m trying to get into a car. And so I go to this place like Vista Ridge, it’s like way over in Dallas, and I get a ticket on the way there, right? And I’m like, yeah, this is already in a great, a great way. And the guy shows up, and he’s wearing a suit. That’s like, doesn’t really fit him and he’s wearing a ball cap. And I’m like, Oh, this is gonna be awesome. So we hopped on this car, and the driver side seatbelt doesn’t latch, right. I can, I can push the male part in, but it doesn’t latch on, like, hold it. And I was like, Hey, man, I don’t know that you’re allowed to sell me a car that where the seatbelt doesn’t work and he looks at me like that’s why it’s called Pre Owned brother. I’m not buying this one. I guess that ticket was for nothing.

I love that guy.

He’s like you tie it around your neck. It doesn’t save your life, it expedites your demise.

Awesome. Alright, so I feel like after last story, we should just go into the throwdown. I think we did, I think we’re in a good spot. Awesome. Alright, so we’re talking about relationships, how to stay top of mind, how to make sure you actually get from the yes to the actual finish line. And for Clint as D’s or construction people, we’re gonna let you start. Go ahead.

Yeah, it’s tough, you know, it’s not a it’s not in my wheelhouse naturally to want to further relationship that may or may not have fruit at the end of it. Right. That’s, that’s like working on a seed that you planted for nine months and, and just don’t know if it’s going to come up or not, right. It’s really tough. And the only way that I know how to really break my own barriers. To get through it, is to put it in task, right? There’s a reason that I’m doing this. And I think once you see success out of that once or twice, it becomes a lot easier, right? But you’ll never see success if you don’t ever do it. So you really got to take that chance, you got to put it in your process. It is hands down. One of the most important steps in the entire process that you have is after you’ve gotten a yes or a, let’s move to the next step. I don’t have it for you today. But next time, you’ll never have another next time. If you just drop it in there. They’re not just going to call you guys. They’ve had a process they’ve been working through for 15 years. And you just broke them out of their their paradigm for just a second. And then you dropped it. They’re not going to call you back. They’re not going to remember you it’s just not going to happen. Yeah, maybe on the one offs, but typically they’re going to go back to their old processes. What was that guy’s name that came in here? Well, you know what I was called Jeff over there. Whatever. We’ve always done it, it always worked. So, staying in it staying in the game is is hugely important. Now I will tell you what, what time money resources you invest into that is up to what you can handle. Right? It’s if you’re spending more time on that, and not going out and doing other things that have gotten you wins, you need to reevaluate what you’re doing. So be cautious of what you can and can’t afford to do. Don’t spend all your time on getting a maybe and then chasing the maybe for three years and letting yeses walk out the door. So be careful there. You’ve really got to, you know, like I said, it’s guys everything that we’re saying it goes into the process that works for you. And you’ll fail and you’ll take the failure and you’ll make a better process. You’ll take the when you put it in the column and you make a better process and eventually you have a successful model and you run with it and you trust it.

Right. Awesome. Al?

Just goes back to know a lot of what Clint said, but don’t have a basket of next one sitting in the corner. Thinking that your success if you don’t have a calendar event, or a next step that that that involves an action on your part back to the sales prospect, then you don’t really have anything.

Okay, Nannette?

So I think relationship is everything. I think that in sales I said, every single podcast, but I think if you want to succeed, you need to know you need to build relationship, I don’t think you should go in with the very first meet. Just thinking you want the sale, I think you have to go in with building starting to build that relationship and you will succeed just I think it’s vital, personally.

Awesome. Alright, so as a C, I think that you got to throw the idea that it might make more sense on paper for them to use you than who they’re currently using. And you gotta throw that out the window and just understand that, as Clint said, some of these habits are really, really deeply ingrained, right? If they’ve been calling the same partner for 15 years, that’s their first thought. So you got to stay top of mind. But you have to balance that with what Clint was talking about, about being the annoying person who’s just begging for work, right, so, you know, you set expectations you get next steps, like, as I’ll talk about, and then I always frame that as as something that I have control over. Okay, you know, so when should we chat again? Okay, well, let’s shut in two weeks. Okay, awesome. If I don’t hear from me in two weeks, is it okay if I follow up with you, you know, in building, letting them feel in control, like, oh, man, I got this person exactly where I want them but then backfilling that was something that I have control over. But there’s no logic in there. And because for a long time, I would just assume, hey, these people are going to call me on the next one. And then, you know, I spent a lot of time waiting for those phone calls to happen, and I got frustrated decided that that was gonna be the way anymore. So awesome. All right, everybody. So this is a dope show. I had I had a lot of fun that I have to follow us on social media. Everything is at Sales Throwdown. We’re all over Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. If you want to take this assessment, because you don’t know where you are. Or maybe you’re kind of between a couple of us and you want to know what that looks like, send us an email: assessments@salesthrowdown.com, we’ll get you one figured out. If you want us to come work with your team, either internally talking about the internal dynamics around your team and the different personalities there, or maybe work with some of your salespeople about how to figure out where their, where their prospects are, reach out to us. We’re happy to have those conversations as well. And we’ll see everybody next week.