Welcome to the show everybody. On this episode, we take a couple of questions from the field. And we talk specifically about how to stand out in a crowded market and why everyone thinks they’re in a crowded market. And we also dig into, you know, learning on the job, making mistakes in your conversations and how to view those things and how to improve upon them. If you know someone else who is in sales and they’re struggling, share this with them. Everything is at Sales Throwdown on social media. If you want to submit a question or a book for us to kind of go over and break down, we’d be happy to do that as well. I hope you enjoy the show.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main event. In the D corner we have Clint The Cleaver Bigelow. In the I corner we have Al The Gambler Daniel. In the S corner we have Nan The Promoter Fallman. In the C corner, we have John Small Mountain Hill.
Let’s get ready to Throwdown!
Welcome to the show everybody. Today we’re going to start with a question that I got from someone else. And they’re in staffing. And if you’ve done any networking or if you’ve been in the game for a while you you probably know a couple of people in the staffing industry because there’s a lot of them. And his question was, how do you stand out when you are in a flooded industry or what everyone views as a commodity? And I walked up and I asked Clint this question before we turn on the mics, and he just got super excited, and we decided to turn on the microphones and here we are.
Clint got super excited?
Yes. Super is like yeah,
I mean, well, super excited for Clint.
That means I might, my eyes squinted.
Narrowed his vision down, ooh, I got some to say about that.
Well, I mean, you know, going back to kind of what we’re talking about before the show is, and why I got excited is because I think that I’m also and I think everybody views their own business as a flooded market. I mean, not many of us out there going to say, I’m not , I’m the one and done you can only call me there’s a few, you know, wish I was a part of that business got to figure that out. But you know, exactly. So as soon as you get your name out there, everybody wants to copy it. So I think everybody’s has that feeling of, you know, I’m one of 100 in the same room sometimes. Yeah, staffing. Look, every networking event I go to, there is multiple staffing people in the room. I mean, that’s no doubt so you definitely are in a flooded market if you’re in stat staffing, and if you’re, if you’re in product is the same as everybody else’s. And what I mean by that is if you can provide the same service at the same price and the same quality because to think you do it better than everybody else is crazy, in my vision. You know, even in construction, which is me, to think that I can help build everybody and nobody else does it as good as I do, it is pretty crazy thought, it’s unrealistic. There’s other people that do it just as well as you do. The front end relationship to me is what separates you. The the rapport building, the trust factor, the personal relationships that coincide with the business relationship. To me, that’s what really separates everybody. And look, everybody’s not the right fit for everybody. So you got to find your fit, right?
That’s why DISC is so important.
Agreed and and the conversations that we were having, myself and John and before this where I was, I was literally putting it back on myself as like, maybe I’m the easy sell, right? This person was trying to sell to me and we clicked so well that I don’t make another phone call. Right. And I was given this lady praise on how well she did the bond and rapport and how much I trust her and when I asked, she delivered. At the same side, I’m like, well, maybe it’s me that she clicked with me. But that’s the point, right is that she did click, and there’s trust, and there is rapport then. And now we’re going to do business for a long time I have a feeling. And the other three people in the same room that tried to sell me the same stuff. We didn’t click. So I think you gotta go find the people that you click and you you can actually trust each other and build the bond and rapport with.
I think that’s the number one thing. But as I’m sitting here listening to you, I’m thinking, the very first product I ever sold. I don’t know if I should say what it was, but it was a very common product, okay, in pharmaceuticals. And so to find the clients that are going to write for me offer that product. It wasn’t in the beginning about they trusted me because I was too new to them. And so it was identifying what would be the caveat that would move them forward, and what it was in this arena was, they needed a reason to write that product, not because they trusted me. But I had to identify that. So where I’m going is sometimes I think the most important thing is trust, especially in longevity. But I think in finding the reason that they would write and, and we can go on if you want me to, but there, I think it’s really important that identification of what you’re paid where your patient, what your client needs, in the beginning, is really vital. But always, as you work with them from the beginning, and hopefully ongoing, is going to be trust. So I hope I didn’t tangent too much. But I think that’s really important to identify knowing your client, knowing what they need. I kind of feel like I need to elaborate because maybe that doesn’t make any sense to you. But in fact, I’m going to Sorry, I changed my mind. Okay, so the product was cough medicine and it was a prescription, obviously, but they could get a very similar product OTC over the counter. So I realized in order for them to write the cough medicine, which is what doctors want, they they’ve gone to school and part of the thing that draws their patients in is they don’t want to go to the patients don’t want to go to Walgreens or wherever to pick up a product necessarily. They want to be taken care of by the physician and the physician writing a script. So I, I gave my product that I was repping validity, how important it is for your patient and then writing it. So your patients are going to come in they’re going to so I think that’s really important for you to find that no matter what you’re selling no matter what you’re repping. I think it’s important to in the beginning figure out what the caveat is, but always be mindful of if you lose their trust at any point to Clint’s point, if you lose their trust at any point, then you’re you’re pretty much going to be done because that is the most important thing is just being truthful and and and being humble to that patient, I mean, I’m sorry to that physician. Okay? Enough about that?
So this is, it’s all good points, Nan, and what you’re saying to me like you said something a minute ago is that’s why DISC is so important, right? Personality, psychological selling is, is what I believe that I focus on every day. I focus on, focus on who my customer is what what makes their tire spin and how do I help them spin the tires, right? How do I get them to their goal. And if we go off the adage of, you know, everybody’s the same, everybody sells the same thing at the same price point, and you can get it from them just the same as you can get it for me, because that’s what we’re talking about today is that staffing businesses very much like that. And we’re talking about building the trust and the relationship in the bond and important how do you do that? Right? Do you go out and you search for the one out of 10 that matches you and you only stick to that one customer. That’s a way. And that’s very successful. And I think in in the, in the example that I was talking about, I found that one person that just happens to match me well. Now those other three or four guys in the room, if they would have if they understand DISC personality, and not just DISC, psychological personality, you know, evaluations of who you’re talking to. I think you can turn the tables a little bit right now you’re making a two or three out of 10 or, or four or five out of 10 because you’re able to communicate with those people on their level, not yours. Right. As salespeople we go in with this agenda, a lot of times, especially traditional sales, I think we go into a room and we expect everybody to flock to us and operate on the same wave lengths is us. And that’s crazy. Because Good luck finding your other partner out there that thinks the way you do. That’s tough. That’s a lot of rooms to stand in and there’s a lot of people to meet to find that person. Yes, it is limited, and you have to become a chameleon a little bit. We talked about that a lot here is realize that that person is across the spectrum for me. And I’ve got to, I’ve got to understand what makes them tick and be able to operate in that in that environment.
So I think I know the answer to this question, but I’m going to ask anyway. In your example, the woman who was able to help you out and build all that really good bonding and rapport, and that first interaction, do you think she’s a D?
No, not at all. She’s a S-I. Okay. Yeah. But I think that she realized that I like to get to the point. And she brought up some examples of how, like, Look, this is, you know, I’m kind of and she herself was even as an S-I, I think she was very tired of hearing all the same sales pitches in the room and she was frustrated. And I caught her in a frustrated moment. And most of the time when you’re frustrated, what corner do you tend to slide to? Right? So I probably just caught her in her slide to a deal a little bit and that frustrating moment where she’s just kind of pissed off with the world, like, I’m just, been to 100 of these. And I, you know, I’ve, I’m just done with it. I’m done with the here and all the stuff. So we’ve arrived in that moment, because we’re both in the same spectrum. Right? So the thing is, is what she, what she did to me was happenstance, it just was in the moment. Could she harness that? Could those other people harness that and realize that that’s how I like to communicate? Absolutely, you can. I do it everyday.
What you’re saying, she didn’t do it intentionally.
That’s why I say it just it was kind of just chance, right? I caught her in that moment of conversation were equaled out, and we’ll probably do business forever and and in the times that I’ve called what?
I’ve seen this vision of you two fluttering mixing and mingling. And then just this this almost this Swan dance in the middle.
I mean, I hope that that happens for somebody. I hope that happens for people.
Look at Clint becoming like the Kumbaya king over here.
Isn’t it good, see how a D can become an S.
I’m just thinking that maybe…
Throw up in your mouth a little bit?
Let me wash that down with some vodka.
All right, Nan?
Some of the best, some of the best and I’ll tell you who it is. If you’ll sponsor us…
Everybody can have their name out.
So Nan, finish your…
I was gonna say with. Okay, so you’re indicating that it wasn’t intentional on her part, but it could have been intentional on her part, any of your cognitive of what’s going on in the room, then you can intentionally make that happen.
You’re right. The three guys I talked to the do the exact same which is funny because it’s in staffing that’s what she does. So the three guys that I talked to her to before that in the same room and the same networking event also did staffing. And it was like two minute conversations like this guy, get away from me.
Well, get away from me, but hold on though. When we were talking about this before, we were kind of talking about the the idea that the other people you were calling wanted to put you through a process of some sort.
Well they wanted to put me through the traditional sales ringer of, Hey, let’s go golfing next week. Let’s go out to drinks, you need to meet, my if you meet my guy, man, you’ll be so impressed you. You’ll buy from us for that. That’s a huge turnoff. Right? So that that two minutes of….
It’s a huge turnoff for a D. But if you’re talking to Al and I, we’re like, alright!
Quit telling me who I am.
But but that’s a good point. But I mean, that’s a good point because because truly that might have motivated me enough to have a second conversation. For me, that pushed me away so far. So I’m like, you’re just trying to, I’m getting, I’m trying to get sold here, you know. And so my point is, is that those three guys, if they were to realize that I got turned off, they could have switched the conversation like, Oh, wait, before you run off here, hold on, you know, they could have they could have saved it, right. But they didn’t because it’s like, that guy doesn’t fit with me. So I’m going to go find somebody else that does, and they’re going to bounce around the room. And we always go back to this. How scalable and efficient is that model that you got to go bounce around a room to 500 people in the next week, do it again and again until you get one. And now you’ve talked to 1500 people and now you got to do 3000 to get two. That’s what that’s my problem with that model, right?
With these other guys that you called, that wanted to put you through the process, a lot of Hey, let’s go out to dinner, have drinks or whatever. Do they still think that they have a shot at your business?
One of them probably does. Okay, because he was my he was the first one I talked to, and I probably let him off a little easy, okay, as a buyer. The second two, I was so done with it because I just heard that speech and then I heard it again. It’s like Look man, you know just forget I called I gotta move on here because I need I need some commitment so now and it was just like oh well you know what Hold on wait wait you know and then click just hang up and just get out of it because not going anywhere. Right? They tried the same speech on Thursday that they try it on Friday and they tried on Monday again and it’s just not working. Change up your pattern. Obviously it’s not working, you’re not getting down the road. Don’t try to save it last minute after you’ve screwed up four times like it’s too late. Now you’ve already shown your true colors to me. So that’s me as a buyer, right? But I’m an easy sell. If you adjust, right? Because we were talking about this John is that we’re easy sells, if you adjust.
Well, I think, absolutely, hold on and I think you guys just hit like, most people are an easy sale, if you’ll adjust. Or you’ll get the no, and you’ll move on.
If you have a need and you have a solution.
Absolutely! They’re gonna say, sure makes sense to me, you know.
If they’re in the market for a Cadillac, and you sell Cadillacs, they’re an easy sell as long as you adapt.
Absolutely. Exactly. And and there’s the key there is that if you’ll stretch to get across to the, you know, the other side meaning to the to the client side or you know you’re or prospect’s side.
Or maybe even in your own cat or a, you know, your own quadrant, right? Because a D to a D is a tough sale. It’s a tough, tough, so it’s not easy just to walk them, because you got to get, and we talked about this on on a couple episodes, but, you know, you’ve got to almost let yourself slide out of that position a little bit. So it’s not sometimes it’s always not adapting to who they are. It’s adapting out of what you are, you know, and…
That’s a good point. Very good point.
Do you think a D to D is the hardest of the?
No, I think a C…
I think it’s… swordfight… I think I said that on here, a while back and the more that that question is coming I’m up and over and over again. It’s probably a C to a C. See because like if your facts and facts don’t line up?
See my spreadsheet? No, I see your spreadsheet. I mean, double you two spreadsheets?
What happens when you, what happens when you’re two pennies off? Can you come to an agreement? That one’s right versus the other?
See? It doesn’t really work that way. It’s just I want exact, precise information.
In our mind, it does.
From the outside looking in, we need that.
We need that meme of like, here’s what he actually is. Here’s what my mom thinks I am, and all that stuff. I just want clear, concise information. And you can bet I’ve already done the majority of my research. So this is here’s it’s almost redundant. I might have like one or two last questions, but I’ve generally already done my homework. And if you’re if you’re a C you just give me that information and then we can move forward. I’m good.
Yeah, and I think that you know, naturally we want to say like a C to an I is a hard sell, or a D to an S is a hard sell because we’re across the spectrum. But the fact is is that C’s need I’s and I’s need C’s more than you could ever possibly imagine. Same with D’s and S’s, so like I need a moral compass right. I have to have a moral compass in my pocketbook. Otherwise I’ll burn the world right, and for no reason so I need someone…
Start with Vegas, it’ll just be this forest fire coming out of the center of Vegas that swallows the whole U.S Absolutely, it doesn’t die till it gets to the sea. Absolutely.
So that’s what that’s why I don’t want I don’t jump in my mind too when you say What’s the hardest sell personality wise. I don’t say one to the other across the board, I say probably in the same quadrant most of the time, is hard sells. Well, okay so, but an I to an I, you never get anything done.
Well that’s what, that’s what my I guess real question was but I worded it badly. Do you think a D to D, I to I, S to S, or C to C is the hardest?
Yeah. To sell to your own quadrant is probably pretty tough,
But of the four choices D to D or do you still think that C to C is the hardest sell?
Man I do because that world’s so foreign to me. So that’s kind of a skewed opinion. Maybe.
I think you hit on something because I’ve been sold by an I or you know, again, people sell to me a lot of times their I’s, and they drive me crazy sometimes, particularly like very high I’s. They just want to call call me dude and..
Tell us about it!
And slide down, like we’re not friends and I’m not a dude, I got the wallet, I’m writing the check, step up, give me a presentation. Let’s quit trying to be best friends, which we’re not going to be, and cut the bullshit, get to the project. Because when I deal with a D or an S or C, I get to get chatty, and they pay attention and then there’s a plan that gets kicked back my direction.
Yeah, it’s got to be about him. Yeah, he doesn’t want anyone taking that limelight. What do you mean? Well, if the higher I comes in and they have their stories, and their kind of run over the top? Yes. You don’t get to tell your stories. That’s right.
Oh, but I don’t whenever I’m sitting back. A lot of times, you know, I get the first like little introduction. Yeah. And then I get a chance to talk and I do a little bit of that. And then the, you know, the sales pitch comes back instead of going off on tangent after tangent after tangent, right. So you got two guys tangential, right? How do we ever go forward? Right, so 45 minutes, an hour and a half?
That’s a great question.
Great question because I’m wondering the same thing myself.
Somehow I find out how to make a buck. Somewhere along the way, Al made a dollar or two, you know, imagine that.
But the thing is, as a high D, I have the same issue with a high I, and the same exact issue, right? Is that I call this meeting, this is about me and my problem and I need solutions. And now you want to tell me about you know, hitting the green with a putter on the par three of the on last week, it’s like, dude, I don’t give a shit like, you’re here.
And you play golf. And you’re a big golfer. Yeah, but you don’t want to hear that.
I don’t want to hear that, exactly. I called this meeting for a reason. Right so let’s get to that. And so I have the same issue.
I do the same thing, I call the meeting I’m the I, sell to me but sell in the way I want to be sold to and we can do business. Because I’m not, you know, I’m not messing around, I’m going to cut a check and I I can make a decision. It’s not the fact that I, I am the guy that decides in my company.
So so now flip that because we’re talking about ourselves as buyers which we all do a little bit of.
Do you by the way you sell?
It sounds like Al does not.
We talk all day long and you don’t get shit from me. Right? That’s all we did was have a conversation male. All right, that’s a waste of 30 minutes of my life.
So I got an example of this. Just the other day. There was a, I was trying to hire, I was trying to find a plumbing partner right to go in on this job with me because it was just a little too big for us to handle. But if we could partner, take some risk off, we could put a number together, move forward. And we could probably take this from our, our big name competitors that are out there. And so I made a few phone calls and people were literally saying things like, I can’t imagine you writing me a check. I work hand in hand with you and I work for the GC. But or you could just work for me and I cut you the check and what’s the matter? I have the relationship, why wouldn’t you want to just work for me? What’s the difference? Who cares? Well, I just you know, it was a pride thing. I don’t work for another subcontractor. Okay, well, then you’re not gonna work at all. And so, right, so hang up, do the next phone call. Same thing. Make the third phone call. Same thing. I’m like Jesus really. And because I’m in a different market now. And the market that I had was very, very much operated. Hey, I’ll work for you this time, you work for me this time and who cares? Let’s all go win. Let’s go take over the world. And the market I’m in now it’s very you or me or…
Why do you think that is?
Well I can say, cuz Houston’s a gritty place, man, it’s just cutthroat. It is, it is the grittiest business environment in the state of Texas, yeah. And healthcare’s the same way.
And I would say it’s a probably a lot like your Chicago’s and your New Yorks.
I almost said, like Chicago, man, it is like nails.
For a while is terrible. It was it was all who you knew. It was. I hate to say it but it was underhanded deals you know, it was like, Hey, who’s got, who can pay me the most? And I hate that that’s a thing. A lot of that too, though. Yeah, I think it does. I you know, I don’t know that for a fact, but I see it. And I’m making my own assessments here. But no, but you know, I finally made a phone call to a guy and I was at my wit’s end like, well, maybe we just, maybe we have to back out of this job because we can’t find the right people. And so I made one more phone call and and it was recommended by some people. And the guy asked all the questions that he should have, hey, what’s the, what’s the chances that you’re going to get this job right. If I’m going to put my money on your company, you got to give me some information back for me to go ahead and do this. Ran me through a very rigorous process. And I’m all for that, because that’s how I sell myself, right? I expect nothing less from the people that sell to me as I sell to somebody else. Right? So we ended up getting through all the smoke, and we’re partnering together on a job that we’re all going to go do together, right. But those other people didn’t say that stuff. There was pride. It was, I can’t work for you or, or I would never you hear these big things, right? But this guy was like, Well, I would if you guys have this. Do you have that? Have you thought about a budget? Did you already budget the job and now I have to live with the budget, like no, man, you’re setting it. Okay. Well, that’s a that’s a that’s a pro instead of a con. So you can tell he’s writing this stuff down on the phone with me. And then after I think we have a done deal, he sends me an email with 50 questions. Hey, what about this, I’m like, You know what? Those are questions. I didn’t even ask my customer that I need to know. Right? You know, I forward that on to my customer. We get all the answers back. And now we’re even a better team because he made me better. So, yeah.
But don’t you have a moment though, as a D of like, come on, man, trust me, I’m going to take care of you. I don’t know why you got to answer me. All these questions. So I said that.
So I said that. Absolutely. I know. I said that on the phone like, Look, man, just trust me. I vetted, I vetted this customer. Yeah. I’m not calling you because I’m wanting consulting. I’m calling you because I want a partner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’ve heard that before. So in his defense, I would have said the same thing. I’ve heard that before. But
I think you got to be really smart. That’s not playing smart if you don’t ask.
Exactly. So I said that. Absolutely. As a high D, I’m like dude, trust me, man. I’m a professional at this. I know how to do this. I’m a professional. I. Yeah. But in my head, that’s what I’m thinking. Okay. I know how to do this. I wouldn’t make this phone call. I’m a professional. You kind of you kind of tighten the title of it. Yeah. Hey, man. Exactly. Yeah, trust me, and he just shut it down. He was like, he did, shut it down and it was funny is, most people I think most personalities would have been like, this guy doesn’t want to work together, click. Where as it’s the exact opposite he wants to work together if everything works out share, which is the process that we preach and that we do ourselves.
Yeah, if you’re going to give something maybe you need to be getting something back, agree. Right.
Well, sometimes, sometimes it’s just pay. You provide a service, I got paid,
But I’m talking about before that, you know.
But bonding and rapport wise, you give, you get.
Well, let’s just say testimonials. Well, I would like to talk to some of your other clients. Yeah. You know, that happens sometimes. If you’re, if you’re going to do that, absolutely. get something back in return. Okay. When I let you talk to all the people who love me, what happens after that?
We have sex.
And you’re still getting a next step, or giving something up,
Because he actually brought up the point to where he said, You know, I’ve just never done this before. It’s uncomfortable for me, which is the same answer that I got from the first three phone calls I made, they just didn’t dig into it right.
I was just saying there’s the the key. If if you’re talking to somebody and something comes off, not quite right to you, don’t throw in the towel. Dig, stop for just a second and wonder. First of all, why did it make you feel uncomfortable or unhappy or however you felt it wasn’t on the positive side of things. But then wait a minute, don’t have a knee jerk reaction to something that they could eventually be worked through? If you question and answer and then come to find out, well his motivation was really in the right direction. It worked out well put money on the table for both of us, who’s complaining that the end of a deal like that?
I think you just summed up my entire conversation with this guy. I really did. There was there was empathy there.
You call me by mistake, but I just pretended to be that guy. Oh, you don’t. You don’t have a deal going forward. Sorry.
So basically, basically what you’re saying is just speak with clarity what you need. What you’re…
Well we all try to speak with clarity. What it is, is when something gets in the way of that where you’re unsure, and it’s something new, don’t immediately draw back like it’s not worth doing.
Like a two year old.
I mean, go back. Yeah, that’s that knee jerk reaction of it’s, it’s, it’s unfamiliar. Right.
Yeah. And I think that sometimes in, and I ran in this with the some of the formal training that I’ve had where it was, you know, ask these questions, you can’t move forward because you said a process, right. I can’t move forward without this question. Make sure you have a reason why you’re asking these questions. Not just because it’s on paper, right? Because if they’re are any good at vetting you out, they’ll ask why do you need to know that and you better damn well have an answer. Right. And you better really truly need it because you might have just screwed up the entire process.
You know, that comes from like that need to know in the military side of that. Why do you need to know? Yeah, and the answer that’s an important thing to ask people I you just brought out that that’s that’s a light bulb moment.
Because, because budget is one of those right? Yeah. What? So when he asked about budget, what are you trying to get out of it? And why? Right? Because in my business, I don’t need to know the dollar amount, the the estimate that I’m about to do is going to spit out the estimate, and we’re going to live with this number. I’m not putting out a high number to, you know, to cut it down and weasel with you and, and try to negotiate with you, I’m putting out a solid number that we can live with. My question is, is do you have a budget? And is it approved? And do you have the funding approved? That’s important to me, not the dollar amount.
And another important thing kind of jumped in my mind, a lot of times you can front run your question with and I’m sure you’re asking yourself why I’m asking this question. Right? Yeah. Why do I need to know this? Well, here’s why. So give some explanation, particularly when you see that, that that prospect sort of bristle or pull back or you’re feeling it in, stop yourself?
Yeah, that’s one of the few times that I break silence. You know, sometimes it’s to let people think on what you just said, is, is a golden you can’t. Salespeople tend to want to talk in silence, right? That’s one of the few times that I’ll break silence is the why. Right? When I ask a question is like, Hey, man, you know what’s going on with your budget with this job. And I see everybody pulled back from the table, cross their arms, sit back in their chair, all the chair squeak at the same time, you know? And they’re all staring at the ceiling on how do I answer this right? And am I going to give the answer and that silence goes longer than about 20 seconds. The natural salesperson in me was some want to keep talking through that, and I let this 20 seconds happen. But this is one of the few times that I break silence and say, Look, guys, I know this is an uncomfortable thing for you to talk about. Some come from, from meeting bring this up. Here’s why I’m asking what I’m asking. Because if you don’t have all this, then we’re not talking about a real project. And I’m doing free consulting and so are you. Right, but if you do And this is a real project that’s going to happen in January. And that’s locked down and the bank says, Go for it. Go get me three numbers. I’d love to be one of your three numbers. Nothing wrong with saying that, in my book and in the business that I’m in.
I completely agree with that completely. John, not looking past Nan, because I’m going to come to Nan, but how do you approach them?
I kind of have this thought process around that you should be digging in on stuff that you think works in your favor, as much as you do when it doesn’t work in your favor. Right. And this is slightly tangential to what Clint was talking about, but I can’t stop thinking about it. But let’s say you know, can we talk about your budget? Yeah, sure. And they give you a budget. If the salesperson hears a number that they think works for them, they just start fist pumping, right? They’re like, Oh, man, got that. Got it. Right. Where, if it’s too low. Oh, how’d you come up with that number? You know, does this mean that, you know, we can’t work together if it’s 20 higher, you know, or any of those different strategies? But I kind of feel like if you are digging in on that, asking that same question, no matter what kind of budget they’re talking about, right, whether it behooves you or not still stopping me, like, how did you come up with that number? Sure, right, to be kind of positioned as not just like the guy who wants to sell you, but the guy who really wants to understand. And to your point, Clint, sorry. But I think that that goes back to like you’re setting up the frame, you know, framing the conversation and setting expectations at the very beginning of it. I gotta ask you some hard questions.
Yeah. And I’m hope I hope that I don’t hope but I do it pretty well is that I, I have banged that into their skull so many times beforehand before we even have the meeting that I don’t have to set those expectations. Hey, if it’s an expectation setting in the front of the meeting at all, it’s because maybe there’s a new guy in there that doesn’t know me as well as like, hey, John. And, Jack, they know me so well look, man, it’s going to be off putting to you when I ask them these questions, but they know me. Right? And they and those guys will kind of make a joke out of it like, yeah, it’s gonna ask some tough questions. And I’m kind of reiterating things. But I’m also making light of the situation, I’m about to ask some hard questions. That’s my personality coming out. That’s not a that’s not a write it down on paper and go use this thing that just was, that’s what works for me. Right. And I just try to, I reiterate only because there’s a new person in the room.
See, I go the other way. And you and I have argued about this in the past, absolutely I if, if there’s a break in the conversation, or say that I got a five call sales process, I am going to be reinforcing my expectations on each one of those calls. Just to make sure, hey, Has anything changed? Right, because it tests my it tests my understanding is it forces them to come to the table to have the real conversations.
I think they both work because I operate under the gut feel a lot more. So the gut feel is to me is that you’re if you’re not being honest with me, this And I find out that you’re not being honest with me, you’re dead to me, it’s over, this entire relationship is just completely over. You do that by trying to seal the deal up front. And I do it a little more on like, I’m going to go through your process. If you ever lied to me, we’re just done. I mean, forever. And you’re not going to drag me on because once I get a bad feeling just out. That’s a very different fact-gut driven. That’s true. That’s fair.
Can you use it in a sentence?
Sounds like? Pictionary?
The question is?
So when you’re in one of these scenarios, where you know you’ve got something negative that shows up where you’re doing the proposition. How do you go about dealing with those situations like John and Clint just described?
The negative situations?
Well, one where you’re um, you know, you…
I’ll give you a scenario. Yeah. So. So like, if, if you asked me, hey, Clint, what’s your budget on this job? in so many words, I know you’d phrase that differently. But let’s get to the point. You. You asked me about my budget and I kick back in the chair, I cross my arms, I look up at the sky and think. You know, you don’t know what I’m thinking, I’m thinking a million things. How do you Where do you go from there?
Well, I definitely think poor listening is miscommunication. So if I’m not listening to you, okay, I’m not listening to you. Right, then, prior to that moment, I should have already known what your response was going to be. I think it’s really important to be able to read people. And so if you’re sitting there, and that in that moment, you’re completely confused, where you’re like, do I say something? Well, you should have. I think the steps to getting to that moment should have led you to know what to do in that moment. Okay. So
Let me clue everybody in, Nan actually does a lot of foreshadowing a lot of times and so she actually nailed it when she said she listens close enough to where she knows when she’s asking a hard question. And a lot of times with her nice nature and just the value that she has in that arena, she tells you ahead of time, this is going to be a hard question for you, which is a lot like when you say, Hey, here’s why I asked.
It’s kind of like softening, you know, so softening statements. I know you use that a lot. Clint. You’re really into the softening statements. I’m kidding. Of course. With Clint,
Clint does have one softening statement, it’s when he whispers in my ear. It just goes soft.
All I know is y’all missed a really disgusting moment earlier.
Alright, so getting back on track.
And by the way, Dr. Daniel…
I actually have a part time job, baby, at the mall for the next couple of months. He Okay, back. Back.
So does anybody have more on that topic? Because I have another question from the field.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
So, we all know this guy, I’m not going to use his name because he asked me not to. Jim, Bob, Tom, all of the above. So he is landing another kind of a whale, a whale of an accountant a huge account, and he gets a white knight who brings him in, he’s working all the channels and everything. And he gets invited into the office, and this guy is telling him Hey, I like you, but you got to convince my boss and he is a hard ass and he’s very precise, analytical. He’s gonna want your facts and figures and everything else like this. So our buddy is Okay, awesome. Awesome. But he gets in his head a little bit. And he’s like, Okay, this guy’s a high C, high C, high C, high C. And then they go out to dinner. And the guy shows up late. And he knows that this guy’s a C, and he turns to him anyway, he goes, so you’re the guy I got to convince, huh. And the guy goes, we’ll see. Oh, no. And I was like, Man, you knew this guy was a C. Why would you lead with that? Yeah. And he? He’s like, I don’t know. It just kind of over overcame me in the moment. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s all. We’ve all had those moments. Yeah,
We’ve all done that.
You will do that.
Now, if you’re not at least got some nerves going on on a big deal. You know, hey, it’s understandable. I mean, you can’t fault people.
I gotta be honest, I’d probably said the same damn thing. Now that I’m thinking through that. Yeah, I might have said this. same damn thing.
But okay, so hold on,
Then you are giving them…
There’s another factor to this. This guy is an S. So he’s not a D. Oh, so he went way out.
Yeah, he was nervous.
I don’t know, I dug in. I said, I said, were you? He’s like, Yeah, I was nervous.
But that’s a problem with that D-up statement, well need to D-up, well hold on.
The thing to remember there that I don’t think he’s even thinking about is they’re at dinner already. And there’s some rapport established among the group and everyone is kind of let down their guards a little bit. And then this other person walks in, who’s not already steeped in that.
Typically what I say in that situation is hey, just to clue you in here. You know, we’ve already been talking about some stuff. Let me let me tell you, what I need to say is that we’ve talked a bunch I think that we’re on the same page. Sounds to me, like we need to get you brought into the same page so that we’re in you’re saying essentially the same thing I got to convince you. You know, so probably how I would say that.
Or like in my mind’s eye if I’m sitting at the table you know I just want to make a nice formal introduction to somebody like that because I think it’s appreciated and then,
Like how formal, are you bowing?
No, what I’m saying is, I’m not sitting there with the boys I say I almost take a different approach with let their them his clan bring him up. Well if they don’t then I sit and let it marinate for just a second because we got the entire evening I don’t want to rush this at all.
So people driven! I love it.
I’m here at this dinner for a reason, exactly right.
I want to see what you order. Are you drinking? Are you drinking? Are you have an iced tea, and I got it like take my wineglass. Like slide it down, set it on the floor and go, I’ll just have water boys. Waiting for you to show so, this is not mine. I’m like, who gave me, what?
Became that statement that that sweet person made, is a slap. It’s basically saying, oh, the reason we’re all here. Yeah.
Well, that’s just, you’re eating, you’re sitting.
You can get that statement, right though. You can because it might be the guy that says you got damn right. You’re, let’s see it. And you say, Okay,
Well, okay, if you’re anticipating the person walking in to be a C?
No, I agree.
Yeah, no, no, I know. And even if he’s a D, he came to a dinner. He didn’t come to a meeting, he came to a dinner so he has a bit of an anticipation 0f….
That dinner is meeting.
That D is definitely thinking of it as…
Yeah, I’m missing something
The C is too, to the C’s there a lot of times to gather some facts, to get what he needs to get out of it. He may have some social…
Why are we eating so late is like my number one question. You know.
I’m usually in bed by now. Make this quick.
This leads me to believe we need to talk deeper about the DISC. Because I’m completely confused why a D would come to a dinner and now I’m hearing a late dinner. And you’re and you’re telling me Clint, that the D wanted to walk into the occasion and just wanted to take care of business. Okay.
Do you think a D hangs out with their workplace associates just for fun?
Why did he come?
Nannette, Nannette, we do. We do dinners with these doctors all the time and they sit down and you know, sometimes they go immediately to guns.
But they still enjoy their evening.
I didn’t say they didn’t. But when they sit down…
That’s on you. Whether they, whether they enjoy it, or they don’t is on you. They came to the meeting to hear you out or to have dinner, it doesn’t matter, either way.
Based on what, so what is the scenario that you are?
I’m just saying that the environment that you provide for them at that point. They’re spending time away from their family or not, doesn’t matter, single married with six kids, doesn’t matter. They came here to hear business. At some point you got to get through some business, otherwise, why are they here? And that goes for all personalities, right? Oh, and business may be bonding and rapport. Maybe the first step into all of this. That’s okay. But eventually some point you got to get there.
But I let them go there first. Yeah, I’m not I’m not reaching across the table. Oh, no, let’s sit down and get to business. But look, you’re late and we need to talk.
I agree, but all different personalities. There’s a couple personalities up here on this panel that wouldn’t get to business, just to see what you are going to provide. I’m sorry, I’m not gonna I’m not going to throw the first stone. I’m going to sit there with my arms crossed until you.
So hold on a second. So let’s clarify for this. Going off. Yeah. In what position are you going to let someone just run their game?
Like, no, but you said a moment ago…
But you said, I’m not gonna say.
Yes. I mean, know, if I come to a meeting, a dinner, slash meeting, doesn’t matter of drinks. If I sit down and I’m there for because somebody said, Hey, you know, You need to come to this.
There’s an expectation set. That’s that’s where?
Well, in most cases there are if you’re sitting down, you know, your crew’s already there and you’re that decision maker, it just because you said hey, you gotta like glue the guy above me and so on.
In this scenario if this if this guy that let’s say you work for me told me like, hey, I’ve come, I’ve come to my decision. This is all the facts that I have. This is our guy, I need you to meet him and approve this guy. Yeah. And I come to that meeting. I’m sitting down silent.
Well, no, but to Nan’s point, right. of, you know, the D doesn’t always know that there’s going to be business discuss that a dinner in this kind of, I mean, this is a whale of an account, right? I mean, this person is a COO, you know, head of r&d and all the stuff. He’s not going to eat dinner, just without any sort of expectation about what’s going on, right? So Sure. So there’s some sort of communication around Hey, like this is going to be a business dinner. So
I think everyone is cognitive of that. I just think the initial approach should be respected. To everyone, and it’s not, boom, like throw up on a minute. Oh, no, I agree with that.
But okay, so shake hands. Hi, how are you, we all sit back down. You give it half a second. And you decide you figure out who’s talking first, right? Are they going to introduce me? Yeah. is are they going to talk amongst themselves? And I sit here and listen? Or is it going to get kind of quiet like they’re looking at me go because they’re afraid of this guy. Right? And they’re not. So define the situation in your own mind real quickly. You got you got 15 seconds, and then you start, right, or you don’t you sit back because they’re starting.
I’m starting to that. Go ahead. Okay, but that goes back to what we talked about a few minutes ago. You should not walk into if you’re the salesperson. Do not walk into that dinner without having a plan ahead of time. You’ve spoken to this person, you’ve had this plan going, you’re not just whilly nilly.
And I agree with that too, because sometimes I’ll say how’s this going to unfold? We’re going to meet your guy, you agree, exactly, I mean, Nan’s got a point. That’s another approach too.
Pre-call plan, right, what’s the homerun, what’s base hit?
It’s all the, how can this go back bad? Will you let me you know?
Clint is squinting.
Here’s the deal, because the three of us all have to sit down and plan out we’re gonna sell to Clint, right.
Think you meant something for Clint earlier, what was that?
He’s crossing his arms, man, dude, you getting upset here?
I’m not getting upset, no, no, no.
You talked about reading the room right, but the way that you read the room is directly influenced by where you sit on the scale. Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. I know where I sit on this scale. of course you do. Right? I mean I you in in in very quick period of time you figure out are these douchebags across from me? Are they manning up? Are they backing down because the big guys here? And where do I need to fit to make this work? So I’m working the room. But if you’re an S,
But if you’re an S, are you ever sitting down and being like, hey, are these guys gonna back? No. You don’t think that way.
You don’t say that, well, you should think that though. Are my white knights gonna run because they’re wimps? Right? Are they everything that they made themselves out to be? Because now this is the first introduction to the decision maker. They’ve been playing their little VP roles. Sorry, that was for effect. And now and now you get to see where the rubber meets the road, right?
Yes, but when you put the four of us in that exact situation, even if the dynamics are the same, the majority of us are going to walk away with a slightly different opinion about what’s happening. Agreed, agreed, I’m just. So that’s why I’m saying that I don’t think the S sits down and they’re like, okay, these guys are going to back down and now it’s on me.
I didn’t say they were going to back down. I’m going to wait and see what happens. Pride and if nothing happens, I’m gonna have to make something happen.
I want to reiterate. So I want to reiterate prior going there, but yeah, prior to prior to going to this dinner, I’ve talked to everyone not I haven’t like scheduled a meeting but I know I know what I do. I like to talk to all the different people, and it’s over a period of time. It’s not always possible but go ahead. Of course that’s that’s acknowledged. I mean, go ahead. Well, if I haven’t talked to them, I better….
I cancel the dinner. Sorry, guys. I got a stomach ache.
I think you should know you’re …
Diarrhea, works every time.
Dr, Daniel, stop it. You know your players. It’s like, has anyone ever played chess before? You know, what your pawns are supposed to do? What your, you know the game it is and I don’t even like saying game because I don’t think it’s a game.
I have to challenge this challenge. You Doc in and going for there, you know this guy, you’ve met that guy one time, here’s your big contact. It’s only one guy us like,
I do the opposite. I do not want anybody else’s opinion skewing what I’m, yeah, we’ve talked about this.
I’m not talking about opinions, I’m not talking about opinion.
No, I’m saying that you do you do some upfront research, right? I tend to when somebody tells me, this is the guy you have to sell, boom, there it is. That’s the guy’s name. He’s at the top. I don’t want to know anything else. I just give me a meeting. Just get me in the room. Like stop telling me that he’s this, stop telling me that is that. I don’t care anymore because I’m going to form my own opinion in the first 20 seconds. And I’m going to know how to do this without skewed opinions.
I disagree. An office manager wants to bring her physician in front of me, right? I’m like, Well, how long have you worked I asked about them.
My hand’s still out here.
Recoil it back and hit me in the mouth. For a second I was like, is this gonna mean dental? Just a fat look.
So, okay, not to you, okay? You want to know nothing, I want to know enough. And then what I want to see because in the back of my mind, I take into consideration, this woman or man works for this woman or man, right that I’m calling on. And so therefore, I’m going to glean some information, but they’re going to give them to me because of where they sit in the hierarchy.
I think recon level stops at some point because opinions can skew what you think of a person’s personality. I think that happened in this point. Right. So they got a lot of information up front about who this person is right from other people that don’t know the business that you’re in. Right.
People slide depending upon their role.
Sure. So when when you hear three opinions of Oh, hey, if if if you know DISC at all. What quadrant would you put them in? Oh, I put them in and I, I put them in an S, I put them into D. And you’re like, Well, shit now I’m really confused going into this meeting, right? So maybe in what I would like to think as a more well versed person in DISC, I don’t want any of those skews.
Okay, but wait a second, but people usually say he’s a jerk. He’s hard. He’s really nice. He’s not really…
You just described, described DISC?
Well, I understand, what I’m saying for our audience. Is that that, that people can use other adjectives associated with those, right. Okay, but, go ahead Nan.
What I’m gonna say, you never listen to another person’s opinion. That is complete BS.
That is the most non-S statement I’ve ever heard in my life. Okay.
But then you come back and go, he’s not such a bad guy. How many times have you met somebody that was supposed to be the biggest jerk and you look around you go, Well, you know, I get it. He’s got some rough edges, but not as harsh as I thought
Al was turned into Tony Soprano up again.
Can I just say, what what I meant by don’t listen to other people’s negative.
So only listen to the positive?
That’s her Christian, like everything’s great.
All right. Nan, finish your thought. It’s time for the throwdown.
But okay so all I’m saying is understand what that the person the person that you’re interested in most, what their protocol is, not their emotion or that person thinks they’re a jerk. But what the, for instance I’m going to real quick so I have a client who you don’t go in their office thinking you’re going to bring something lovely. You know what’s lovely? The snicker bars, okay, you’re going to bring in some Snickers and you have to get permission to do that. You don’t just think you can come into the office. I didn’t know that. But I found I, I learned by asking questions, what’s protocol for the office? And that kind of information is vital? Because I didn’t know that and then if I would have done it, it would have been not okay. So I’m not asking for emotions. I don’t want to know what someone thinks about Clint or what someone thinks about Al, I need to have, I need to have my own opinion. But I do want to know what they find to be acceptable in their office. So that’s a good point.
Let’s go to the throwdown.
And our throwdown today, sponsored by…
What are we throwing down on? I guess, either one of those two questions?
So, look, the thing is, one of the things that we talked about constantly is, is personality assessment. You talked about that the entire time. Whether or not you’re trying to differentiate yourself from your competitors, building that upfront, rapport, trust, leadership skills, like it’s all in there, right. People, people trust you because they think they’re that you are the leader of your group, and they’re the leader of their group. So you want to do business together. I mean, that’s kind of the hierarchy of trust, in my opinion. So we’re talking a lot about assessing the person across from you, making judgments on on what you think of them not what other people told you about them right? So that can really go down a dangerous path of when you accept everybody else’s opinions and you run with it. So form your own opinions, do your homework as Nan was saying the last few minutes is, do your homework on things that are acceptable. You and Doc hit to it as business practice of you know, formal greetings, what do they like to see. That’s all good stuff, right? But forming your own opinions at the table. really look at who you’re talking to next door, you know, across the across the table from from you are on the phone and just say okay, this guy operates in this world, you know DISC, or you should know DISC, and if you don’t, we’ll get to that later, right? But know who you are, know who the person is across from, you know, operate in that in the terms that are agreeable. And that goes with, whether it’s the first conversation you ever have or the last conversation ever have.
Along the same lines. You can gather some information along the way or you wouldn’t be sitting at the table to have that big dinner with three or four people. There’s one decision maker, and if you don’t know enough about him, you’re going to have to use other people until you meet him to get your information. They will give you the information from their point of view as to how they relate to that individual, meaning the decision maker. At that point, listen, like Nan said, which is the biggest part of communication, to what they say and then match it to what you see when the guy walks in, sits down at the table. And from there, call bullshit on them or agree that they’ve made a decent assessment of the guy that they set in front of you. And this is going to be easier rather than harder, that they don’t fear the guy, that they don’t loathe the guy, that they’re not propping something up. So it’s smoke and mirrors sometimes, sometimes it’s not. Sometimes it’s straightforward, just like they said. But your job, if you’re good, and you want to be good is to decide all that in a very short period of time, as you’re conversing, as you’re deciding whether there’s after dinner drinks, or whether you’re just drinking coffee and getting the hell out of there and scheduling another meeting, or you’re going for the no or the yes, right there at the table.
So I think we’re all basically going to say pretty much the same thing with this question, but I think whether you’re talking about business or relationships, like marriage or your with your children, I think it’s really important to understand who you are. Clint said that and I went Yeah, exactly. You know, if you don’t know who you are You know, you’re you’re batting with, I mean, that’s just ridiculous. You have you’re playing golf and you’re playing with one club, if you can understand you figure out who you are, have confidence in that. And then understand who you’re working with, then you can get a symbiotic relationship going, no matter what the D I S C is, whether they at you and what they are. And you you can be successful, be it and again, in marriage or with your kids, or with business, because if you don’t know how to deal with people and understand people out of love, I don’t even think it’s out of smoke and mirrors. I think it’s just really how you deal with each other. I think it’s vital. I think it’s really important. I love that we’re discussing this, and I hope that you find value in this and that you want to find out because that’s, it’s it’s so about life. It just is so cool. I love it.
Good. I’m going to go the opposite way that, because I know that everyone’s expecting me to say research, research research, you know, and plan and plan a plan. But as C’s, it’s so easy to get lost in, I need it to be perfect, I need every detail and it’s got to be just perfect. And that’s a lot of pressure. And so I kind of take the Clint approach, but not with the same thought process of, I’m not going to spend too much time researching because I can uncover the majority of that in a quick conversation, you know, and get to get to knowing to where I need to go to have the best conversation that I can. And that keeps me from spending four or five hours researching and trying to perfect it and then because that can lead to having too much of a plan and then if that doesn’t go according to what you want it to then the whole meeting is shot. So Clint and I are kind of on the same page there with I know that everyone’s expecting me to say oh, I I spent 17 hours going through spreadsheets and everything else about people before I meet them but that’s just not the case because it’s not good time spent.
What’s a spreadsheet? No no. Just kidding.
I’ll leave you with a little cliffhanger and what is perfect? Perfect is? Right?
So signing on the line which is dotted. All right.
All right, everybody. Thanks a lot. Thank you.