Welcome to the show everyone. In this episode, we talked about boundaries and balance and how to handle being in sales and, you know, trying to have a life outside of it. And the thing you’re going to hear is that we all view it very, very differently. So listen to how we break that down and some of the levers that are important to think about when you’re figuring out how accessible you’re going to be. If you know anyone else who’s struggling in sales, please share this with them. And if you have a question for the show, reach out. Everything is at Sales Throwdown on social media, and I hope you enjoy the show.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main event. In the D corner we have Clint The Cleaver Bigelow. In the I corner we have Al The Gambler Daniel. In the S corner we have Nan The Promoter Fallman. In the C corner, we have John Small Mountain Hill. Let’s get ready to Throwdown.
The elbow, the shoulder is connected to the…
Oh god, Welcome to the show.
Oh My bad.
We’re just gonna leave this in here so that way everyone is listening still understands that this is how every episode starts there we have to pause and restart.
Running with scissors. I’ve probably said that before.
Masking tape is all we need.
So today we’re talking about essentially how do you prioritize your time as a salesperson because depending upon your role, depending upon how that’s set up, you might have to do some maintenance. You know some other things that are not directly related to going out and getting yeses and noes and how do you divide that time and how do you keep it from picking up your schedule?
And how do you, you know, keep that personal balance in your world with your family, your kids, what you like to do and some of the rigors of just being in the sales side of things. And some of the, you know, wacky schedules. And just…
Yeah, having to be other places after hours.
I mean, I used to think that car salesman had at the worst, right? Because you’re there they do every time. And then I went to work for Al, and he’s like, okay, cool show up Monday morning or 4:30 am. It was like, I’m sorry, what?
I cannot tell you. How many, three o’clock 3:30 driving in the freezing cold from Arlington to downtown Dallas. And I would just crank up the music, turn the heat on, drinking tea, just like please. I will stay awake. And I mean, it’s unbelievable.
Or you’re still drunk sometimes.
Well not me, but yeah.
That’s happened to me.
We’ve been down that road. So I guess you know to push this a little bit further is that depending on what type of sales role you have, you also have an outside life to that role, right? And how do you how do you refill the tank? How do you, you know, take what you earn or the success that you’ve had. Or sometimes that failure you’ve had, and take it away from work and survive both of those events.
I mean, when you’re, when you’re winning, truly winning, like on the, on the scale of whatever your scale is, when you’re winning in that environment. Home life is probably pretty good, right? You’ve got everything that you wanted. Do you have explanation to why you’re doing what you do? You know, to your, you know, let’s say spouse or kids, hey, I have to take this phone call because this is why we have what we have because I take these phone calls. What happens when you’re losing? Can you still take the same phone calls? Right, can you still justify it?
I have to stop you for a second only to interject that. You can be winning everything and if you’re on a family vacation and you’re on the phone most of the time, no, I agree. You know, what I’m saying is that I’m sure, absolutely. And so, John, you know,
I think I think what I’m getting there is that a spouse or, you know, even kids understand that the reason we get to do all these things because daddy takes those phone calls because it’s winning, right? But what happens when you’re losing and it’s all at home? Hey, it’s even more important. I was gonna say, and your kids don’t get to do those things because, well, Daddy’s always working. Right? And you got to go take those same phone calls, because you, you’re trying. So ther’s a, there’s a weird flip there, right?
So back in August for my daughter’s birthday, all she wanted was to go see the ocean. So we decided to go down to Galveston and I kind of had it in my head that I wasn’t going to change anything. I was gonna still have my normal calls my normal meetings, everything was gonna be normal. I just wasn’t gonna be home. And I was miserable on both sides because I wasn’t feeling as productive when I was on my calls and doing my work, and then I was like, stressed out about that. So I wasn’t really fully present for the family. either. So, you know, maintaining that balance and, you know, setting expectations around it, you know, with your family and stuff, because my daughter was starting to get pretty frustrated, because she’s like, hey, how come we’re at the beach? And you’re not? I’m like, Well, I just got to do this. Two more phone calls, and I’ll be down there.
So as a metrics guy, you know, John, yourself, like, isn’t it easier to say, and maybe not, but okay, I make 100 phone calls a week. And this is how I close my deals and this is how I’m successful. So the week prior, the three weeks prior, you add some phone calls in or you add those tasks in to make up for that last week to say, okay, I’ve done all that I can do. And it’s made up for the caveat to that. Is that, man, if I had time to make those extra phone calls prior, why aren’t I doing that every day? Well, isn’t that isn’t that a trap that you get into?
Can I throw something out though. I mean, I can appreciate where you’re going. My problem or a problem I see with a lot of salespeople is how do you leave your accounts while you’re out of town, existing business going forward. Not not that you got to be grinding out phone calls while you’re out on vacation necessarily.
But what happens when the emergency comes up.
What emergency are you referring to? Any? Any way? You mean, this was not from the family side? I’m thinking kids going to the hospital. Okay. But my point is, is there’s the problem. I’m not trying to. I’m not trying to gain new business when I’m out of town. I’m just trying to make sure my shit doesn’t blow up. Because I’m out of town. Right?
Well, you you’re in a very poachable realm.
Yeah. Well, I’m in a realm where you can’t make too many mistakes. You can’t leave something, exactly. So poachable. Maybe not so much because I leave town. If I’m not there to fix it, or I don’t get the phone call to make some adjustments. There’s where the problem is.
Do you set up upfront expectations to your family or to your customers, or what do you do?
A little bit of both? A little bit of both. I don’t always tell em I’m going out of town because there’s the weakness. There’s the poach, right? Yeah, you know, I’m gone. So I, I don’t tell people I leave town. Nan actually has a story about that.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to. But what if you’ll come back to that? I think it’s really important to prioritize, figure out what’s the, you know, I mean, literally write down what are your top five things in the order of priority. And when you when you first start in sales, you’re not going to be the person that can be the leader to appoint other people to be there step in and if they called that person and and if they can’t handle it they call you and if you get a call from your people that you’re leading, you know you have to take that call. But I think the most unwise thing any of us or anyone can do is to put our business ahead of our family, and I know that sounds super S but I don’t care. If you You’re making a gazillion dollars. I’m not sure what that looks like on paper. But if you’re making a ton of money, if you failed your family, then you’ve screwed up. So you have to, your family has to be the priority. And that doesn’t take away from I see a couple people railing because they’re like, what???
You just saw some body,
Some body action going. I think it’s really important though. Okay, so if your son’s calling because he needs the keys to the car, I mean it or whatever. I don’t know, there’s all kinds of scenarios that aren’t that important. But if you have something vitally important, you have to address that. But I think in sales, if you do not have, if you’re not in leadership, and you’re leading people so you can take care of your top priorities, then you failed. I think it’s really important to, again, what we’ve we’ve talked about numerous times, you have to plan, you have to think about what your leadership role is.
So I read and I can’t cite the actual publication or where I got this information from, but they did some studies concerning quantity versus quality of time that you spend with your children, your family. Right. And it always came back to quality, not quantity. Right? Because there are plenty of families that are in the same, like house don’t talk to each other that you know, barely, I mean, they got five iPhones and five iPads. Right. And and I, I the article made sense, because if you say to me, write down your five top, you know, things. Man, I love my kids, but my priority is Work, work, work, work work, because from there, I get everything else that I have.
Well, I think that that comes down to right I think we’ve all heard about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, right in at those lowest levels. You’re just, all your mental bandwidth is spent on can I keep food on table and the roof of my head? No, you can’t think about anything else you can’t think about, Hey, is it time that we’re spending with my kid quality time? Or is it is time for the sake of time, right? You’re not thinking on that level. And so for a lot of sales people out there, they’re struggling, or they might be new, or you know, any other number of reasons. If you’re at that level, you don’t even realize that you’re not spending time with the family that you’re not prioritizing them. Because the only way you can prioritize is the thing that keeps food on the table and roof over your head. So.
True. So how do you how do you get past that? So loving your kids more? Does that get you past that now or being better at the work that provides for the kids that you love the most in your life?
I think it’s being a better leader. I think it’s every…
I think it’s better sales. Because if you have more cash flow, now you have a dilemma of time versus money. If you get to where time is more valuable than money, you’re in a good place.
Agreed. Yeah. Clint, awfully quiet over there.
I am awfully quiet. Now, as as we’re talking about this, I go to the deployment side of my mind. Military wise. Sure. Because the motto, you know, especially the Marine Corps is God, corps, country. Right?
Well, that and if they wanted you to have a wife and kids, you would have been issued one.
That’s right. So you go, I go the extreme side of that in my head. But I kind of I kind of reverse the scenario today in the civilian world of, you know, work versus family vacation where the family vacation would be a deployment, right? So the way I justify that, in my mind is that before every deployment, one of the greatest things that any leader in your organization would say is you lock that shit down tight: finances, family, the plan of what’s going to happen when you’re gone. You lock that shit down, so that you don’t have to worry about that on the way because if you’re worried about that, underway, we all fail as a team, one person’s personal failure screws everything up in the way you think about certain situations. So I reverse that scenario in my head, and I know that’s a little deep. And I don’t mean to get there, but I still use that is that when I go on vacation, I lock that shit down tight so that when I’m on vacation, all I’m focused on is why I’m there, right? And all those things, there’s emergencies, right? And you got to deal with that shit. You got to when those things come in you you roll with it, you adapt, you overcome, you know, you take that phone call when necessary, but you better have a damn good reason why that’s necessary. That’s where I go in my mind. Right? That if I could take if I could only take three days off a year, and I spend that with my family. I damn sure better have a damn good reason why I’m taking that phone call. So that’s what I say.
So do you when you say that like you’re going to need a damn good reason because the family is going to expect that or because you’re going to expect that if the person is calling it’s not fair to anybody, right?
No fair for the customer to be blowing me up on vacation. It’s not fair to my family that I’m taking the phone call. It’s not fair to me because I need the break too, right? Absolutely. I’ve been I’ve been running maybe 100 100 plus hours a week trying to get to have this vacation. So it’s not fair to me either. And that’s where the realistic side comes in.
But, okay, and I agree with what you’re saying. I really do. We live as salesmen in most cases in a world of great flexibility.
Yeah, right. Exactly.
Sometimes you’re only working 10 hours a week. Yeah.
You! Well, you didn’t you say you’re a vice president?
I said sometimes.
Aren’t you a vice president?
Do I need to break out the knife hand?
Throats and genitals are off limits, man, you can hit me on the shoulder. You know I’m a crier.
Sometimes you, you know, you work 110 hour a week trying to get stuff done. The next week you come in, you’ve done so much that man, you know, I’m trying to recover.
Exactly. Well, okay, there’s where, again, that’s it. That’s a very valuable statement. When you’re concerned about how much work you have to catch up to. Look, it’s easy to take a vacation when you hear crickets. We’re talking about when you’ve made it, and you’re running, and you can go wherever you want to go. And you’re, and you’re, here’s what you’re doing, right? If this isn’t popping in your mind, if the flight is under $1,000 per ticket, and I got four family members, we’re going. We’re not budget buying because I can’t budget because I have to. I got to schedule on Friday to leave the next Tuesday or I gotta do a Thursday and then go out on Friday because I just found out my weekend’s open. And I’m crushing it, but I gotta get out of town. Yeah,
Well, it’s taking the moments to recharge your batteries. Sure, right. And that’s easier when you’re…
Spending whatever money it takes, not whatever money, but reasonable money to get out there and do that.
Sure. But that’s that’s a little bit different whenever you’re the owner versus you’re working for someone else.
Okay, and I can go to the poorhouse quicker than you can because you’re gonna get paid and I’m not.
Let’s put this in a money aspect because we all talk money. Yeah. In the budget. Can we have let’s talk? So yeah, it is budget. So when you’re applying for a new sales job, right, and you think, Okay, I have this job today, I’m applying, I’m interviewing one of these days I might get that switch. But what do you always have when you switch? You have a gap in pay right now a week or two weeks depending on how its structured, sometimes a month, and it takes you maybe, you know, my experiences usually about six to eight weeks to make up for that one week of lost payments. Sometimes longer than that. Sometimes longer than that, depending on what the pay says for later. So if it takes you that long, it’s the same mentality going onto a vacation. That’s you’re going to have to make up for that week and, you know, takes you weeks and weeks and weeks to make up for that. So the funny thing is about both sides is that you could have planned for it. Yeah, you could have planned for both, right? You knew you’re interviewing, you knew you were applying, why didn’t you throw, always about planning. Why didn’t you throw 100 bucks aside? Right? Live live a little scarcely so that when you had that gap, you recover completely agree. So why wouldn’t you do that with business? Right? I’m going to be gone in June. Why won’t I prepare for the June?
When I worked at AT&T and a big bank, which, if you were going to take a vacation, you are essentially just giving up the ability to have like, a good commission month. Really? Yeah, it because with with both those organizations, there were significant multipliers, right. So like if you hit you know, top tier, you know, I’m making some some like serious money, but it’s kind of like the car thing, right? You got to be there to make those sales because they’re just there. You can’t. This retail sales, not like outside business business sales, but it was like, well, do I wanna take a vacation? Or do I want to make money? You know, because it was such a significant chop at the knees if you took any time out.
And I, you know, and I know people hold positions very similar to that in a lot of arenas. Yeah. You know, in…
A friend of mine works for a big TV station. And I hear all the time, like, the people that work there. So if you’re like, on the morning news, for instance, they like they’re not comfortable with taking vacations because they’re like, okay, so someone’s going to come in and have to replace and what if they like it? What if people like them better, you know, and they do a better job,
I, it’s terrible, but that’s the whole, it’s realistic in front of a camera, like actors and editors,
But I hope that I do such a good job. 360 days out of the five that I miss, doesn’t doesn’t matter.
Well, that’s because you plan, not hope.
If you’ve built a life around five days off from work. Lordy, Lord, No I get it people do though.
I do. That’s the world I live in.
Liar Liar pants on fire.
But I take calls all the fucking, I mean the whole time I’m there’s one vacation I rush, shut it down. I don’t even take, I don’t even take…
My money’s on Clint.
And hit me hard there. Alright so, but but look there’s vacations understand that hey look I’m going on vacation and I’m going to Don’t worry about what don’t worry about covering what I’m going to do because I’m going to do it all on vacation and then there’s a vacation a vacation that I take where it’s like I’m shutting everything off. Yeah, that’s it, right.
What was your story that you said you wanted to talk, you know, oh Nan, you’ll know this? What was it, do you remember? No. Okay.
So, after the Galveston experience, I decided that I’m not going to do that again because it was just miserable. I couldn’t really fully work Oh, yeah, I yeah, I was unhappy with both sides of that equation. I was not as effective at work. But I told myself that I was going to get myself Thursday, Friday of that week to be able to work. So I didn’t shuffle any activities or behaviors or anything. And so I’m down there and I’m trying to like make some calls and follow up on some things. And and I’m not in my space, I’m not in my zone. I’m not doing things as I normally do. And so I decided that I’m not going to do that again. So we’re going to Chicago next week, and I talked to you guys about it. So I’m going to be gone Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and I’ve already have shoved things to the side, because I don’t want it to be like it was last time. But if you’re working for someone else, and it’s, well, if you’re not here, you’re not here. Sorry, kind of thing. That’s a lot of pressure.
Well, I don’t, I disagree there. There are ways to manage both of those. And like you said, it’s about planning ahead of time, right. If you know the revenue is going to be lost, then lose it. Just never Because if the cycle is is lost, then you bank ahead of time, and you don’t lose any statures only as you come back into the game and there’s another loan to do and you’ve got every, you know, if you’re Wells Fargo, you’re ripping everybody off. There’s another guy to steal from and you know, this guy, you know, it’s just our cattles always coming through the chute, right.
Here’s all our passwords for everybody that uses us on a bank.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, speaking to that specific industry. Or the other side of the equation is I have allotted certain times where I check my email, because you have portability with now the connectivity that we have.
Because one of the arguments that you have as a salesperson is like, I don’t need to be in this office every day. It’s 2019. Absolutely. Call me on the phone.
That’s part of culture.
So to eat those words, right, eat those words, some time when you’re struggling when you’re struggling and you go on vacation, they’re like, Hey, I called you didn’t answer. So there is some give and take, right? You got to…
Well check, check, check your cell phone coverage wherever you go. Stay away from a blank spot.
That’s kind of because there’s not real emergencies and what I do, right like, no one’s gonna call me and it’s like a real emergency and it’s,
It’s a personal light, right?
Your lack of planning, yeah, exactly. Like it doesn’t really happen. I forgot my password. Okay, come on, sir. So man, hit the help desk. But by that same token, because I have this smartphone, and it’s connected to all of my email addresses, I still see the stuff that’s coming in, I just don’t necessarily act on it. Sure. So what I’ve kind of done is set the expectation with my family like hey, look, I’m going to have 30 minutes a day where I sit down and I check my email and you know, just gonna follow up on that.
That out of office reply on an email, that automatic function.
Oh, man, I don’t do that.
I’ve never done it, but…
I’m just saying…
I’m a VP. My, my administrative assistant…
I am honestly, it’s so thick today, I have honestly, I’ve honestly never done that but uh, when people do that to me. Oh, but but I get it. Yeah, I understand it and I’m like, Okay. One of the things that I hate when they do that is that they just put out office till blah blah blah and I’m like, Okay, well who the fuck do I talk to right back? When they say I’m out of office till Monday and they say please talk, you know, please contact Mariska. Here’s her number, he’s your email. We’re good. We’re good.
Where did Mariska come from what?
Mariska Hargitay from Law and Order, SVU.
I was gonna say, you know a Mariska too because I seem to get this Mariska, Maria. Yeah,
But hold on. So I used to love setting the out of office when I worked for someone else, right. When I, when I was, you know, at AT&T, or at one of the banks and stuff and it wasn’t really detrimental, you know, it hurt but it wasn’t like my business. It was their business, right? I was just kind of the the intermediary. You’re the perfect boy. I loved because it’s like social media. Let me show you how awesome I am with this out of office. And now that I work for myself, I’m like, I don’t want anyone to know that I’m not actually here in front of a computer.
Yeah, and the point goes back to planning, right planning for your vacation, if that’s what you have to do. plan for that. Right? You set you set your customers up for success in your own organization. So like…
So let me throw this out here. If you’re not working 24/7, 7 days, 52 weeks a year, whether you’re working or not, then something’s wrong. Because any weakness, any crack, what I’m saying is plan, schedule, work it and make sure you’re covered because the worst thing, if I lost a million dollar account because I went on vacation, I’d be jumping off a bridge.
I’ll nail that.
There, once again.
I’ll nail, bridge, nail that down a little bit further said, sales people don’t usually operate in a normal operating day. Right? 8-9, or 8-5, right? Like, that’s just not the world you live in. Because if I operate if you’re paying me a salary on 40 hours a week, right, and I operate eight to five every day, but then, you should fold socks. Yeah. But then I go, but then I go to a networking event or a conference, right? where I get to work till midnight or entertain clients, like, where does that money come in? That’s that leadership side to understand what you do. So, I mean,
or sleep until 8 in the morning.
I think, but I think what doc saying is that 365, 24/7 environment is what you operate in. And, you know, I can understand that.
But see, I’m trying so hard to go the other way, right.
To get sales within an operating environment?
Well, just to not let my business And, you know, client account stuff. be the thing that I’m thinking about at 9:30 at night, like I want to, I want to limit that to certain…
I’d be okay with that if…
Hey, I mean call me a snowflake if you want? But I mean, here’s the deal. Why? Why does it have to be a like a true emergency? Why do you have to contact me right now?
Because they did. So here’s what I will. And you handle. When you put people off, you say, I’m not answering this because it’s too late at night?
As salespeople one of the biggest attractions for me is to be able to take my kids to school one day because I don’t have to be in an office by a certain time. But But know that I’m going to miss a football game because I got to go handle this thing, right. So it was given take on both parts, right? So if that given take is always there and understood by employer employee, right, there’s times on vacation, that you’re gonna have to take some calls right? And
Let it go to voicemail and decide if you’re going to contact them.
She can do that. That’s an option.
Absolutely it is.
Look, all these are options, right? You could take zero phone calls. But if you’re gonna bitch that you lost sales because you were on vacation at the end of your vacation, because you didn’t take that phone call. You didn’t plan properly, you didn’t set it up, right?
If you don’t decide that you will buy a ticket to come back home. That day, if the right emergency occurs, then you’re not in the game.
I’m going to tell you right now you can ask my family. I’ve been in South Carolina and Charleston before and got so far into a deal where I had to entertain people that they came and visit me on vacation, and I never saw him. For three days they flew back home without ever seeing me. Because I felt that that, right, wrong, and different.
Sure. I’m not trying to call anybody wrong, right. I’m not calling it wrong.
What I, what I felt was that the future of my family and the future of my finances relied heavily on heavily on me being there and I chose that over now. Not saying that’s right. I could have done known what I know now I could have done 100 things different. Sure. And one of the things that I could have done different, I think that’s the thing that really is leading to one of the things that I could have done different was upfront negotiations, making sure that they understood that I had family because if they didn’t know, and I had family there, they wouldn’t have done those meetings at eight o’clock.
Agreed, most of us are doing exactly, that’s the thing that I’m going to. So but but at the end of the day, if
Well, hold on real quick. I think this also comes down to what’s the size of your market? Right, because there’s not that there’s not that many surgeons in town, you know, so you can’t just…
But that’s not all that I do.
No, I know that. Hold on. Right? We’re trying to Yeah, I agree. Whereas, you know, potentially any business with at least one salesperson.
Let’s go back to my buddy Brian that called in like 10 episodes ago that is in a saturated market that may have one customer every six months. Yeah, when he calls and wants to go to dinner and that might be what you’ve worked for the whole time. Absolute you had a football game that night with your kid. What do you do, what do you do? Right?
I think that that comes down to your personal level of urgency. Right. I think it also comes down to where you sit on this table. Right? I mean, I think that in, personality wise, yeah, absolutely. I think that that has huge impact on it. And I also think, urgency, personality, and then how good are you at? You know, saying, Okay, I’m fine with this. If you need to talk to me at 8:30 at night. Come on man.
So. So John flips his scheduler, because it’s coming through you know, not scheduled, not answering.
Pretty much, yeah. Wow. Yeah. There. There are, the list of people that I will…
I could never be that.
The list of people,
He does that, because he does that to me.
I mean, Clint and I talk all the time.
Which means you do it to me.
Yeah, that’s true.
Oh, you bastard.
If I’m working on something, and we don’t have an appointment. Yeah, it’s a choice to answer that phone.
You don’t answer my calls?
Dude, John’s, John’s answered my call. And I’ve said hey, John, you got a few minutes and he said, I’ve got two, but I have a phone call at 10:00, it’s 9:58. Okay.
I’m bleeding out over here, bro. And I need a hand on this bleeder.
I’m making some assumptions about like, hey, Clint calls me a lot. It might be about this thing. It might be about something else, but it’s probably not an emergency. I can call him back in a minute, I am focused on this thing that I’m trying to work on right now.
And I know when you don’t answer, you have a legitimate reason.
Because we have this this level of thing,
But that’s what we’re trying to get with our customers.
Well, so I think the part of that is I don’t give my clients my cell phone number. They, you get the office number, and that is routed through…
I’m gonna totally disagree with you there.
Here’s the deal.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just a disagreeing.
I have hundreds of thousands of businesses that I can work with. You don’t have hundreds of thousands of surgeons and you don’t have hundreds of thousands of doctors.
I literally get told weekly, thank you so much for responding.
I’m going to respond, but you don’t get to call me at nine o’clock at night. I’m not answering that phone call.
But I like where your attitude’s at.
Dude, I love it. I know you love me I do I man Dude, I’m, but I just can’t be that guy.
I don’t, I don’t work in ya’all’s industry to what to where…
And I couldn’t be you if I but I, but I can appreciate where you’re coming from because I’m like, man, that’s the best.
If you sit down and you take a hard look if we put you in my in my world, right? Consulting, right? There’s not, you know, agree. I mean, it’s different with healthcare and it’s different with construction. If you have guys out there on a site and something happens and like you’re their contact.
Somebody calls me from construction at nine o’clock at night. I’m answering because something went exactly crazily wrong.
That doesn’t happen in my world. Right.
So it is predicated on your business.
Exactly right. If you call me and at 9, I can’t even, I can’t even
I’m in the wrong business, I can’t even imagine. I say that all the time.
Man, come on.
It’s all I know though.
But you make a significant more than I do.
That has nothing to do with anything.
Well, I mean, on some level it does.
No, I told you eventually it becomes time versus money, right? True. Eventually, if life goes the way it should.
How many plane tickets have you purchased and not used?
Too many. You know what sucks. If you have a ticket, like a fully refundable ticket on an American on American, I’ll call them out those bitches after a year. They don’t have to honor that. How the hell does that happen? $800 that’s the last one I can recall. Because now I know you don’t you don’t have your credit on there anymore. Hashtag triggered. I have, wait a second. I have gift cards that are 15 years old. And I look them up occasionally. Yeah. And they’re still good. I have a gift card from a T ball team. I was the coach and my son’s in college now. Right? And it’s still good. It’s at a restaurant. Yeah, it’s at the whole…
How do we go from American to gift cards. That’s a, that’s a big
He brought it up, man.
Giftcards, not a good idea with Christmas for.
Yeah, so that that boundary is important to me, right? Because I intimate part of the reason why I started doing it was because it made me very uncomfortable. Right? It used to be I would answer any phone call, even numbers I didn’t know. And especially but as a friend if you if you called me and we were buddies and you call me to help me out, man, what’s going on? And then I realized how much that happens and how much it takes me out of my whatever work I’m doing, whether it’s like prospecting or whether it’s working on my business or something else. And then, okay, cool. I’m not gonna answer these calls. And for the first three weeks, super uncomfortable, like they might have a referral. Ah, I should really answer this.
Gosh, I’d hate for them to give it to you tomorrow.
Exactly. And, you know, but good. That’s, that’s the easy switch to flip when you’re a salesperson, right? If you’re if you’re down, I guess at that lower level of like, Maslow’s hierarchy of like, I mean, I bettter answer this call, they might need something right now. And if I don’t talk to them right now, they’re going to tell me no, in, you know, in 30 minutes whenever I call them back or whatever, but now it’s just second nature. So yeah.
So I called you before the podcast, right? I answered the phone. I know. I’m like now I’m waiting. I want to say thank you.
This is how all my phone calls should run right? I answered and you say thank you for answering. And I say you’re welcome. What’s up?
I’m never calling you again. You bitch.
Man. The difference between the D and the I is so apparent right now because Al’s got his feelings hurt. And Clint is like, I couldn’t give a shit less.
No, I know. I’m tongue in cheeking this because it actually you win.
What is that mean?
What do you mean I win?
I couldn’t do what you do, but that wins. If you can set a schedule where people come to you and welcome to Donald Trump. Well, hold on.
My thought is you answer or you don’t. And if you don’t, you take a chance on the losing those…
Absolutely, right. I gamble with that.
I gamble my ass off.
I’m not saying that’s right.
I take the phone call.
Don’t, don’t quote me on that. I’m not saying that’s right. I’m just saying that’s the way I feel, right? You You don’t answer and I think, Okay, well, I need coverage, I need to call somebody else right now. Because everything in my world, when I’m reaching out, is an emergency.
The other thing is how your clinic business and your business is very relationship driven, right? You get a stable full of people that are willing to work with you and refer you. Yeah, you’re going to ans… I mean, if I had five people that were making up all of my business and I could lose it because it was very, very approachable and very competitive. Yeah, I’m going to answer those phone calls but I don’t work that way.
You’re still relationship based?
No, for sure. Right? I gotta build a ton of trust because remember, I don’t even have like a thing that I can sell like it’s just my knowledge and my in my experience, right. I work harder on trust…
I also look at the fact of like, when I answer a phone call on vacation, especially like a family vacation. How hard is it to answer the phone call like, what am I really missing out on like, I weigh that.
Isn’t that a slippery slope though?
It could be. But you got to be,
It’s just 10 minutes.
You got to be smarter, 15, but hold on, but you gotta be smart enough to realize what you’re getting yourself into.
You got a list of who you should respond to.
If I, if I’m on the sandcastle in let’s say Galveston on.
Or your head sticking out of the sand cuz your kids have buried you and you can barely breathe.
I said that completely wrong if I’m on a beach building a sand castle with my kids, and it’s like this is going to take a couple hours, and I’m in there, and you call me and I can I’m already overseeing the operations of building this sandcastle anyway. Like, it’s not gonna hurt for me, but know that I’m going to set you up on that call to say, Hey, man, I’m on the beach, this may be a little unorthodox, but I’m building sandcastles with my kids. I got a couple of minutes. Shoot, what’s going on, man? What can I help you with? There you go and your kids are in the background screaming and running around and you set that up, right? There’s nothing wrong with taking that phone call, in my opinion, right? I’m gonna take that phone call day long, but I’m going to set it up to where you know that.
But don’t you said then kind of a precedent that, oh man, Clint always gonna answer the phone.
That’s okay, man. Because..
What’s wrong with that precedent?
I’m not saying there is anything wrong. I’m just saying…
You know, because of that I’m doing 2 million with you next year because I just love that.
Of all things…
Nannette is giving me the hard look over here.
We talked about setting upfront expectations all the time. So yeah, one of the things that I always tell the people that I, that I sell to is, guys call me anytime, I may not, I may not always answer, but I always get back to you. So what I’m saying is that when you send them to voicemail on vacation, and you get a voicemail, and an hour later you call him back. You already set that up front.
I do exactly what you’re saying. Don’t cuz I’m in hospitals where it’s leaded, I don’t get reception. I’m like, Hey, I’m in and out. Leave a message. Don’t be afraid to call back. I you know, I get to my
I feel like we’re on the teacup at Six Flags. We’re still going around the same, same thing. Well, same thing. I think it’s about your boundaries.
I think it’s about your boundaries. Well, I think it’s a good topic.
But ultimately I think that it’s what we initially stated. It’s about leadership, it’s about planning, it’s it’s about relationship, and setting private parameters. What you’re going to do I think it’s so silly to act like we’re I think we all for what 100% take care of and we suggest you take care of your client, and figure out how to do that properly.
Yeah, don’t leave anybody in the gulge, don’t set anyone up for failure, but enjoy your time.
You are going to live and die under your own sword. That’s your own prerogative to do right if you don’t answer it, that’s still your own right. You as a person, as a salesperson, whether no matter what personality you do, you’re going to live and die under that sword. Answer the call. Answer it, don’t answer it. That’s up to you but know that there’s consequences to both right? And you got to live with one or the other.
And i agree with you, tell them where you’re at. Let them know you’re on vacation. At that point, I don’t say you front run, I don’t front run vacations, but I don’t have a problem saying, Hey, I’m having dinner. Let me step out and talk to you. Because it also tells you where my time frame is right? Out of respect.
I’ve had people, I’ve answered a phone call during a dinner with another customer. And I’ve answered the phone call. I came in, he called me twice. It must be really important. Yeah, I’m actually I stepped out from a dinner with a with a customer. What’s going on, man? It’s like, Oh, shit. You’re at a dinner with a customer now? Hey, dude, I’ve already said that. I got a couple of minutes. Shoot. Right. I can’t believe that’s a huge level of respect that I’m gaining. Right. But I’m also serious about why I’m taking that phone call. Yeah, but I know the consequences of both right? Yeah, that’s the thing is I know the consequences that I just stepped out on the customer to take a phone call with the customer. I know the con- consequences of both,
But you’re kind of gambling on the fact that they’re going to love that. Okay, that you’re that customer focused.
That’s my gamble.
Yeah, it’s a gamble.
That they don’t like the fact that you said those people don’t want to gamble. Get rid of I know you, you left your family and you left the business still to talk to me cut him. Am I unless you got a lot of cash we’re talking about I know but I’m okay with that.
So that’s where I go back to it’s very personal, right? It’s very you because if if they said that to me like, I can’t believe you’re with another customer, you’re not valued anyway. Get get out of here. I’m gonna go focus on this customer. But that’s me, right. That’s my mentality.
In my business, though. That’s that’s a big sticking point. But, you know, these big egos running around. Yeah, exactly. It’s almost like you’re having sex.
But it’s not on you. That’s not on us.
I agree. But you know that I’m telling the truth. But if they don’t like the other guy, or
That’s why I say you have to weigh your options personally. I agree. In every situation you have to weigh because you may piss somebody off to gain one.
Exactly. We’re in a game and a business, that every word counts, right? Everything we do, you know, it’s calculated or should be.
Hold on, you guys cut Nannette off a moment ago.
No, I’m totally fine. Go ahead.
I love you, John.
Words are bullets, words are bullets. You send them down range, you can’t get them back.
Okay, and I have an English, I had an English teacher said, I totally think that. Words are like knives to be used against your enemies. They’re nuclear. That’s what I’m saying you can have their their knives to be used against your enemies.
And once they come out of the end of the barrel, there’s no getting them back.
But doesn’t that right? So if you’re a salesperson and you listen to this, you’re hearing us talk about how important your words are and stuff
Be quiet, that’s what it means.
No, it makes you calculated, because you’re going to screw up rightfully, you’re gonna shoot the wrong target.
But you guys are kind of making it sound like you can’t mess up too many times.
No, no, no, what I’m saying is that…
I don’t think you can or you’re gonna not reap the rewards that the top guys get.
John, that’s very true statement. Even even to your ability like you screw up so many times that there’s this is what it is.
Guess what? The world doesn’t give a shit. You get to get food stamps. You get to struggle through your bills, get better at what you do.
I’m with you.
Lordy, it’s not a hard equation.
What I’m not saying don’t be scared to take chances, because I think that’s the line that you’re going down. Right. So yeah, don’t don’t be scared to take chances. Just weigh your options, weigh your risks, right? So if you if you’re doing something outside of the bubble of something you normally do, if you’re looking at a guy across the table like man, you know what, I really need to say this. I need to get this out there. Weigh the options, right? Practice it in the mirror, practice it with a coach, right? You got to do those things.
If you’re running with scissors, right? Absolutely. If you’re doubling down on a two against a ten, you’re an idiot, right? Just come to Vegas with me.
Depends on what the dealer has.
I said a 10 on the dealer and I got a 2 showing. Right I got 12 and dealers got 10 I’m doubling down.
I don’t think, he thinks you’re an idiot. I don’t think you’re an idiot. I think you’re learning and you have to learn, you have to everyone has to go through..
You can only learn so many times.
Don’t, quit saying you’re learning when you’ve done it 10 times the wrong way.
When you’re putting yourself in a position to where every conversation is so precious, that you can’t mess up. Precious. Yeah, right. That’s right. So that’s the word of the day precious. Here’s the deal. If I need one deal to close, and I have three of my pipeline, there’s a lot of weight on all those three deals for me to get to yes. Whereas if I have 40, and I only got to close one, Okay, awesome. Tell me no, right?
So it’s situational.
Well, true. But like when you guys are talking about like, Hey, you can only mess up so many times. And your words…
If you keep repeating the same mistake so many times and you haven’t listened.
We talked about this all time and is refining your process, right? So you failed once, take the failure, no problem with the failure. You got the no, you did something wrong. Take the know, take the failure, take everything that you thought you did wrong or have feedback on what you did and that’s even better. Do you take that, now you build the second process that’s even better. So when you go into that same situation again, you don’t do the same thing. What Doc is talking about when you repeat that cycle.
But if you fail a handful of times, and but every time it’s less, like, like the cuts less deep, that’s okay too, right? Because if this is a reoccurring nightmare, or you’re not realizing why you, then stop that, madness, right. Yeah, that makes sense. Absolutely. I mean, it’s a learning process. So you’re not going to fail once and you get it right the second time necessarily.
It’s the martial arts. It’s the marksman conversation, right, like you are, you’re gonna do it 100 times you got to be okay with 99 are gonna be wrong, and then do 100 more times and 98 are gonna be wrong.
Talk about marksman, when you’re, when you’re shooting, right and you shoot way right? You make big adjustments first, big adjustments, big bold adjustments and you live to it. Now you’re shooting left, right, you shot way right now shooting live, but you’re not so far left. You’re just a little bit left. Right now. You hone it in. Now you’re on target. Now you hone that in even further to where you’re shooting bull’s eyes, right. That’s the marksmanship strategy. Great. I’m okay with that. Right. So you you shoot from the hip, you shoot right and you think oh man, that did not work. Let’s go the other way. Now I’m just a little bit left to center and you hone that in but that’s what you’re doing. You’re not doing this you’re not shooting right 20 times in a row, beautiful, and hitting the, just the same fucking thing.
No, yeah, I’m not saying you keep making the same mistakes. I’m just saying that. That if, if you can’t take a no, either psychologically, you just can’t take another one or two super small or something. I mean, true. There’s, there’s something to be said for that. But that’s gonna make it really hard for you to go and be okay not being perfect.
Well, I think that’s where that the compassion, empathy side comes in to say I’m, I’m not doing something right. I waved a little white flag, and that’s why these conversations that we’re having here in these podcasts, true, you know, I in training, and you know, even formal sales training or just picking up your phone and listen to podcasts that are so important because you’re hearing different ideas.
Yeah, exactly. Get it from other areas. We’re not be all, end all one stop.
How 2019 of me not even mention a book. But yeah.
But, you know, a couple weeks ago, we talked about cultures and things like that, and a lot of sales cultures and companies is very cutthroat. You know, it’s, I got here on my own, you get here on your own or, you know, ‘see ya’ kind of thing. So, if you don’t have that in your company, like you can go find it. And now, with social media, it is easier than ever, like, like, go get a community and go find people who are thinking the same way you are, and go get improvement outside of your workplace, but you gotta go find it someplace.
And then that brings up another question. So it boils down to you have all these resources out there for you guys. And there’s not you know, there’s us I said, you know, if you’re listening, and thank you, and thank you for that, yeah. Thank you for your service to us. Not taking away from any veteran that’s ever been out there. But our listeners out there, we do appreciate you guys tuning in regularly. But we’re not the only, test us right, go go cross reference what we’re talking about with what other people are saying. I think that’s the only wise thing to do and go try it. Exactly. And you’re going to find a lot of similar patterns going on here. Right? That what you know, we we invented us, but we didn’t invent the wheel.
Well, no, I was like it when I’m when I’m describing what we talked about on air. You know, like, you’d find it really interesting. You know, because we’re talking about this certain situations is from four different walks of life, man, different personalities. And they’ll always say, Oh, you should listen to so and so because they talked about this too and I’m like, kay, cool. And I click play. And I’m like, yeah, cool.
One personality, using one voice.
And I’ll listen to and I’m like, Man, that’s a really good thought. I can punch holes in that, I can punch holes in that, but that doesn’t make it wrong, right? It’s just a different way of thinking I’m so and even though that I think that I know everything. I mean, the fact is, is I just don’t. And I learned and the only way that I get better and better and better is to go out and get further is so far away from my own personality. That’s the way I’m really figuring out that I’m learning
Well that’s where this started.
Well, to your analogy of shooting a gun. You know, there are people that are going to walk up to that bull’s eye and hit it. First time, they’re just going to do it.
Well if you walk up to, you just put your gun on it, pull the trigger.
Bad but my point is, okay, so aiming.
Closer to the target, the better. Come on.
That the person that’s gone to rider to left eventually can still hit that. So it is just a matter of practice. And being mindful of your…
Because you can go the other way, right. And I think that I’m probably one of those guys that came up and hit the bull’s eye on the first shot, and then the second shot was a little off and the third shot was way left and I was like, Oh shit, buddy. But you started changing the target. I mean, you started changing the windage on me, you moved it further down range, right? Right. It’s like okay, I was good at 300 yards, and with the perfectly zeroed gun, but now you moved the 800 yards and you got wind, right? That’s not the same playing field. So now I’ve got to adapt. I got to overcome and I got to adjust right and, and how I do all that is is very personal. It’s all you know, Doc, does it a different way than Nan and John and myself do. We go find different things to hone in our education to get us back to center, to get us back to bull’s eye? Right. So it’s, it’s it’s very this whole topic right as we go into the Throwdown, it’s very personal. Yeah.
All right. So it is time for the Throwdown. What are we throwing down on, boundaries or how you how you improve?
Balance doing, you know, whatever you want to do, you know, not not jumping at every, not, not being the trained lap dog the jumps at every tree. All right.
Go ahead, Clint.
Throw down right, so one of the things that we talked about right off the bat was vacation wise and how do you separate personal and business life and and and do you need to, right. In your world and I say your world because I really mean that in your world can you handle separation? Do you need separation or can you handle both and intermingle them? That’s on you. I will tell you that it is on you. If you see your family getting so stressed out every time you take a phone call, then you need to adjust. If you see your business fail because you don’t answer the phone calls on personal time. You need to adjust, right, if you want to be successful, but that is on you. Right every personality up here. There is no set way. right you’re a high D you can do that. You can intermingle the both or you’re a high I and you can be social. Look guys, this is all on you as you’re listening to this. Think about who you are, think about the failures that you’ve had, adjust, score it to the middle, and keep track of what got you there. And keep doing that. When you’re outside of that when you’re hitting way left way right way high, hitting dirt at the bottom. You need to adjust from that right and keep track of all the hits and misses. And you got to come back to bull’s eye.
If only there was software that did that. Al, as an I?
I completely agree with everything that Clint just said. And all I have to say is work so hard that time is your most valuable asset. Versus money. That’s huge. Yeah,
that’s pretty significant. I don’t want to follow that. But go ahead Nannette.
Why don’t you say that one more time?
In a voice that sounds like Nannette. Just kidding, go ahead Nannette.
Why aren’t we listening to me, shocking. Okay, so I just want to say how are you gaining as a new strength? I think it’s really important to think about something new. Be it monthly weekly daily. I think weekly is probably really smart. You know, find a mentor, find find a podcast, hopefully, the Sales Throwdown Podcast, find something to improve on yourself. And I’m going to leave it at that. I just think you know, even if it’s just I’m going to be kind to someone today I’m gonna not, I’m going to say this. No one, y’all close your ears. But you know, I’m not gonna cuss this week I’m gonna, I’m just not going to do it. It’s just not going to make my life better. Think of something to improve on, gain a strength, constantly be thinking, what am I going to get stronger in in my life?
Are you fucking kidding me? I can’t cuss all week?
She said she was, not you are.
It’s gonna be very hard for you.
So for me, as a C, this comes back to, I guess, real C-ness here, right. I set boundaries and set prioritizations and as I talked about, the Galveston trip was not a great example of that. But you know, you learn, and then you kind of move forward. But you know, you kind of coach people about how accessible you are. Right? If you’re giving out your cell phone number and you’re being super chummy and stuff like that, then it kind of leads to a paradigm to where they can reach out to you all the time. I don’t really do that with my clients, right? I’m here for a reason, you know the game, you know, you know what we’re doing? And then at the end of it, you know, I got to go do all the other stuff I want to do so. But once again, as we talked about that depends upon your market, depends upon how hungry you are.
Right and your personality.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it could be argued that I’m a little too complacent, you know, but I think that there’s a shift in how our business works.
You work your ass off.
It’s not It’s not that.
I am worried that you’re painting a picture that’s not true. You are super reliable.
Exactly, I don’t want people thinking that you’re a dick, because you’re not. That’s why I’m like, well I’m glad it works for you.
Out of the Throwdown to comment on this. What what I think is that we all have a little bit different opinion on what we can give and receive at the same time. So one of the things that on the opposite end of the spectrum for me is that you as a C, John, is you set parameters around what you’re doing. And I kind of shoot from the hip and adjust we both adjust right, that’s opposite ends right? So don’t be afraid to listen to all four and take nuggets.
Cuz we all deliver, we’re not fucking around here we deliver in the industries that we do business in. And John does…
I just set expectations. Yeah, of like, hey, look, if you need me for whatever reason, I’m available via email, right? And if I don’t get back to you within like four hours, like something drastically has gone wrong, right. So I set those expectations.
Should they be looking for a bridge?
No bridge talk, or no more anyway. So But yeah, I I I make myself available. I help my clients I just don’t make myself available all the time. Because especially in my world, there’s not really a the an 845 at night emergency but that’s different for you guys. Right
Exactly, yeah, yeah. If it’s melting, something is drastically wrong. So, but yeah, you know, I’m in a lucky spot. I think it’s kind of what this thing is boiled down to.
But you built that lucky spot for yourself though, and other people’s, guys out there, you can do the same. So listen to what John has to say. Yeah, I mean, people want that. I want that.
I mean, I couldn’t I couldn’t imagine being in a happier spot. Oh good, right you know, because of all the other stuff I’ve done. And especially whenever I was working with you, like like your big rule was like you answer the phone, right always. And now being where I am I’m like, you know, I don’t have to be as available, so I really like the spot I’m in.
Dammit John, now we got a, we got a problem now.
Yeah, so if you are struggling, you know someone else please follow us on social media. Everything is at Sales Throwdown. Hit subscribe in your podcast player or on YouTube if you’re watching us. And if you are not sure who you align with the most or maybe you’re in the middle which commonly happens, reach out to us: assessments at, actually it’s firstname.lastname@example.org. And we’ll get you hooked up with one. Thanks everybody.
No, no, can I just say that if you’re looking for a Christmas present for a hard to buy person, I think that that would be a fantastic gift.
Okay. All right.
Little Throwdown there. Love it.
I think it’d be great.
Awesome. All right everybody. Have a great night