Episode 28: What is Your Biggest Challenge in Sales?

Episode 28


I didn’t get kicked out for the so then he said, Rashad, and everyone is lost.

We are live guys seriously. Wow. I think we are. I hope you guys didn’t hear that.

Lovely that y’all are here.

Awesome. That’s the best way to come into this. Sneak attack by the director, or producer over there. Thanks, Paul. Oh man. Wow. twice before I saw

Right now I’m feeling John moment. John was that noise you make that?

Oh, that’s classy.

I don’t even I was never even aware that I did that

Nan is, and has been for years.

So in a really great sales call, I’m like hmm.

And if I hear it. Dude. You hate that but you love it so much.

Because it means hmm. y’all know what I’m talking about. Forget about it.

I don’t, could you show us

Anyway moving on, who wants to be next?

What are we talking about today?

Our greatest challenges, trials and tribulations I mean, just the upfront one.

Anyone ever had a challenge? Yes, we all have, everyone raising your hand. So what do you do? What do you do? What’s your first…

Well first of all, what is it and then can you? because I don’t think I can conquer mine, mine just sucks, it just kicks my nuts every time.

Go ahead, Al. Dr. Daniel.

What is yours, get in there.

I was hoping that when that wasn’t gonna lead into. Mine’s the gatekeeper man, that bitch or bitch being a guy, just slaps me silly. Slaps me silly, man I can get so tongue tied. so frustrated. So does defeated in all the worst ways.

Okay, so we’re gonna my biggest struggle because that is lame.

We were talking about this at lunch you know, and we kind of touched on this idea that since you have a gatekeeper yourself…

But I got to thinking that that should make me better not worse and it doesn’t help. We agree. The fact that I have people who protect the gates oh man I don’t I don’t know if it’s ego I I literally don’t know what it is. I survive because I go warm calls and I work around but my my biggest dread is to have to go ask something of the gatekeeper for fear that she’s going to say you know, done anyway it goes all bad.

That’s so crazy because as the I, right, I’s are known for being able to build rapport with people and have these great conversations and and really, if you’re looking for a biz dev guy, right I is kind of the Golden area.

And most of it It goes well, but it’s when it goes bad, it ruin, I mean it wrecks me.

So you’ve had that moment of?

Of course it does.

Oh yeah because because what that comes across says is this person doesn’t like me. Everybody else likes me, I’m Al fucking Daniel Why doesn’t this person like me?

Maybe Yeah, maybe I don’t know but man it’s it’s it right, it is what it is I

Well this makes me completely sad because I’m thinking I’m unique. And so whenever I go in to a client I always think I’m going to take care of you better than anyone else is kind of like the mothering thing. Like no one can ever make you as happy as I’m about to.

Oh, wow.

I literally think that.

What are you offering on the sales calls?

No. I’m good at, your interest. Don’t even talk, I but I literally think I because I feel this. I’m want to make sure you’re going to be taken care of better than anyone. I think that.

Is that before or after the slow spin you do in the lobby.

I all I literally think that and I that’s my objective so I’m terrified if someone doesn’t believe that. So my I’m always going well, I’ll show you, I’ll do it.

So is that to to to that it that that that that that point, if I’m in front of the decision maker, then it’s game on. There’s not one ounce of worry he’s either gonna you know either let’s get to the no, let’s get to the yes. I mean we really have a conversation or we don’t and I’m respectful of that. What I’m not respectful of is, let me check, what are you gonna feed me. That whole like, like get the fuck out of my way.

So you just don’t like that they’re like a barnacled onto the person you need to talk to you?

That’s a good way to put it because I don’t see it as barnacled. You know, I almost see like they run this whole fucking kingdom, I’ve gotta survive to get back to the paydirt.

Definition of barnacled?

You guys just invented a word.

No barnicle, barnacles are on top, barnacles don’t live independent of themselves.

Barnacles do barnacle things bro! It’s called being barnacled.

I completely understood what you were talking.

Are you a seashell, I mean, come on.

Barnacles are attached to stuff.

Because I don’t want to talk about barnicle anymore. Clint?

Hold on, hold on. We were zeroing in on your biggest concern right, your biggest concern is it? Is it you…

They think I can’t take care of I’m better than anyone else, that terrifies me. I’m like, I can.

So let’s talk about that though. Right? Because what if they don’t view as being taken care of the way that you handle your clients, right? It’s kind of like this idea that they’re going to see value in the things that they see value in, right. And your skill set is valued by some people, but then other people are like, Hey, you know, I’m sure she’s great. But, you know, I don’t need the things that she does, right. So initially, I should have found out what they need. Absolutely right. But when you walk in the door with that assumption of like, I’m going to be the best thing for you. You’re I think you’re setting yourself up for a little bit of failure, right?

I don’t feel that way ever. That’s what I maybe need to tweak. But I don’t ever feel that way. I think I’m going to find out what you need, and I’m going to bring it to you. So what’s your challenge? I mean, my challenge is to figure out what they need and figure out how to do it.

I’m I being too fixed on…

It’s simplistic, I understand.

To me like, like, that’s the catch 22 right. I’m gonna be the I’m gonna take the best care of you ever. And you should just know this. But I also am mad whenever you don’t think I’m going to take care of you. Right?

I’m okay with that. Once I get past it and I have a conversation with the decision maker. I’m okay with yes or no. Okay, so the difference between no means I gotta go find somebody else. Yes. I don’t know what that means that I let them define it and I move forward. So when you say well, I could be the best. I may not be the best fit. I’m okay with hearing that.

But then I’m okay with letting that go but what it what is it? Cuz I’m gonna always go for that. But what are you gonna do that’s different?

Nothing. I’m just, that’s not my biggest issue whether they say yes or no. You say you’re upset because you think you’re the best. But are you really? Because that seems a little, you cannot be the best for everybody. Nobody can.

That’s very traditional, right? Hey, I’m going to take the best interview. I’m the best guy in town. And the guy who has a company 1980 is like what about me?

So you’re saying I wouldn’t be calling on you unless I thought I was the best. But you said I should know more. So it’s a little bit of a contradiction right?

Alright, Al, how are you gonna do different?

Well, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Why are we eliminating this conversation? I don’t understand.

Because the thing if Al doesn’t see this as his biggest problem, but you see it is your biggest problem, then that’s, that’s why we’re here. All right, take it easy. Take a deep breath. Right? Because if this is your biggest challenge, and this is the this is the thing that’s slowing you down with the thing you’re working on this year, okay, then that’s awesome. Let’s talk about that. We don’t need to deflect and say, Well, how do you do it? Well, because it doesn’t really matter because Al doesn’t have a struggle with it.

I’m not thinking I’m the best, I’m probably not the best. That’s why I don’t do business with everybody in town. I do business with a handful of people that made me a lot of money

This week, I let go of a client, a potential client, because I was like, all right, that’s not gonna work. I’m It’s not that I think everybody but when I, but you just said otherwise, not everybody, not

Not everybody said I, I’m just asking.

That patient that a client, we’ve got a symbiotic relationship. I know how to move you forward. I would give me so my biggest struggle is that they’re like, I’m just not sure. But I know but what I let people go when I’m wrong. I know that wasn’t working.

So why do you think you have that struggle?

Because I want to be the best.

Okay, but but then but they don’t see you as being the best, is what you’re saying?

Not yet.

Yeah. So does it bother you? So is it the perception that they don’t see you as the best or?

I don’t, I haven’t built that trust yet. Once I built, that’s why….

But nobody has that going in.

I know, but you have to create that. You have to know how to do that. Clint’s like um…

He’s being so quiet, he’s just…

He started out that last way or last episode. Comes on strong.

It’s the sidepart, bro, it’s changing you, not not for the better.

I love the sidepart.

Alright, Clint, correct me.

No Nan. Yeah, exactly. Let’s stay on Nan’s topic.

I don’t have enough time. Joking.

Wow. Hold on. Welcome to DISC. The D just became super D and Nan is being super S now. In the middle.

Clint, correct me.

Oh, I won’t because that’s your struggle, right. I don’t have anything to correct, that’s your own personal battle.

What is your struggle Clint?

Hold on, let’s stay with Nan. So let’s finish the whole thought here. How would you help Nan? What could you say? I know you don’t have all the time you need. But in the short time that you have, what could you tell Nan, which would help her on Monday?

I’ll tell you what will begin because we can always do a part two or three.

It like your, your episode. No, you’re tweeting this you have limited characters limited words, right.

You know, okay. Okay. So your biggest struggle here is that you believe that everybody? Not everybody, You’re, you believe that you can help everybody?

I believe I can help the people I identify that I can help. I said that.

And you think you’re, so you’re going to be the once they accept you, you’re going to be the best at doing that. That’s that’s a good belief. I have I have that belief.

I mean, yeah, I mean, when you phrase it like that, sure, but if it’s getting in your way, or if it’s like making you hope and chase, things that we shouldn’t be hoping and chasing.

That’s the difference, right? Or if you’re painting, but she said something really key that I don’t think you guys are picking up on, is she said that when they’re selected, then she goes in with that attitude. So she’s done something to put them on her radar of why she’s there.

I’m happy to let people go that I know will not be successful. There you go.

So so that would be where, you know, like my personality as a D comes in is where I’m quick to cut, right? Like you don’t fit the profile, get out, move on to the next, you’re, you know, line item in the spreadsheet, cut it move on. You know, as an S out there, you tend to have a lot of hopes and dreams in you can think you can help everybody and that’s that’s usually kind of the downside to being so compassionate if there is one, right? That’s that’s the downside to it, is that you just literally can’t, right and you got to focus on the people you can help. And and I think that’s the the advice right to an S is to focus on the ones you can help.

Yeah, I like that.

Okay, that that brings it into perspective.

I always think. I don’t know why y’all said something that one of the other recordings that our relationship is what where we connected and you just did it. I think that is a huge caveat to how getting the DISC to be symbiotic. I think it’s really important that…

We tolerate each other better than most people on the street. Right? We have other social backgrounds. We know each other’s families and things. So we’re we are so much more forgiving. Then the S meeting the D on the street. Yeah, I and the C that have to interact. And then they have to do it by scratch. Like, oh my god, I can’t figure this guy out. Yeah, well, I don’t know anything other than he’s a C and I’m an I. Wow, he’s talking a different language.

So initially, I as I modified my struggle who would like to go next, identifying their struggle?

Well, I think that since Al drilled so hard into your struggle that we should go back and talk about how we’re how we’re going to help Al deal with gatekeepers on Monday,

I just quit. I’m not doing it.

Clint, come on.


The man on the mountain. With the sidepart.

If anybody has the best advantage to deal with the gatekeeper, it’s, it’s Al for sure. No doubt personality wise, right. Just strictly looking at the psychology of sales. He should have the biggest advantage.

Doesn’t feel that way, man.

I get that. But that’s also why you struggle with it. Because it’s a relationship driven thing and relationships and whether people like you or don’t like you is very important to you. Just because of your natural personality. Right. So

Well, here’s what happens. I get into a situation I can’t just go fuck you and walk away. Yeah, well, I’m stuck.

Like so, and I’m not picking on you personally here a little bit. But your personnel I’m talking more to the personality. So I is going to be pretty ego driven. You got some ego there.

And you don’t?

I didn’t say that.

Okay, dad.

I have tons of ego but and that’s why I also struggle with failure too, right, and when people don’t listen to what I say, my ego gets in the way of, I’m always right. But I’m not right, so in this situation a little bit different because as a gatekeeper doesn’t accept you, there’s a little bit of ego there that says, hey, I’m, I’m Doc Al or I’m Mr. Jones or whatever the case, right? So that that clouds that a little bit so you will you can’t make solid unemotionally driven business.

You just hit on something. Because here’s where it rings with me. I wouldn’t be in there if I didn’t have a fucking reason.

Agree, but they didn’t know that.

Everybody feels that way.

I know. I know. But there’s where I may be wrong.

That’s where that’s what that’s where the emotion and the ego gets a little bit in the way right versus a John as a high C where it’s all data and facts and Okay, if you don’t use me, then you lose. And that’s not my problem. It’s very, if you would have used me, I could have helped you there but you didn’t. So see you later. Yeah, I’m still standing. I’m still good.

And he means use me, he really means to work with me.

Yeah, I mean, unless you’re providing the service, which you guys are on, yeah, literally using. So I get what you’re saying, partnerships and whatnot. But I think that there’s an emotion attachment from an S and an I that’s a little bit greater than the other, the upper half of the spectrum, which is John and I, just the emotion and the ego on your corner.

Or up versus down. Yeah. Alright, so we sit at the bottom.

We have it, we have a particular orientation.

I’m sure we do. And it’s consistent. So I don’t have a problem with what up versus down means.

We can, we can rearrange the letters but it will make sense, DISC sounds good.

But, you know, moving on, I mean, I think we’ve summed up what and that really is my biggest Achilles heel. I mean,

On to Clint, what is your struggle?

Probably not performing and what I say I can do. And that’s a sexual statement, I think.

Erectile dysfunction, I can, we can help with that.

I saw faces smirk up here, but I will go in there. Yeah, well, I saw her face light up, she was ready for you. But I think that for me it’s so I go in and I know that me personally might I might be able to perform it but as a salesperson, you’re handing that off to usually a performer, an actual somebody that’s going to actually do the work right.

Are we calling that a surrogate?

Yeah, there you go. Always go sexual. Stunt double. But I think for me, my biggest fear or something that gets in the way of really driving home is sales that maybe in the back of my mind, we’ve performed badly in that arena before, but I’m still trying to sell that and I need another chance right. I need to go do this again and again and get repetition for my team to get better at it. Right. But I’m hesitant to sell this. It’s a little bit hesitant. I’m hesitant to sell it because I don’t want to fail again. And my names on this because I brought it to the table, right. So if I have any worries in a sales process that would be one is that the people behind me, I’m not relinquishing enough trust, and setting them up for success because I held back a little bit.

So how do you work on that?

I mean, it’s, it’s about trust, right? So it’s a, if I feel like I can do it better. Or if I feel like I have a little more knowledge, it’s, it’s giving my team that knowledge so that they, you know, can perform better. It’s being a little more involved in the job, it’s also being probably a little more honest with myself. And, and the customer to say that, you know, we struggle here a little bit, but you know, I think we can do a good service and we’ll be there every step of the way. And we’ll, we’ll do we’ll do everything we can to make this right, you know, and so that’s hard, hard to say coming from my brain, you know.

And now the drought a new company, you kind of have to go through that whole process again, right?

Yeah, I’m learning every day, you know, what we’re, what we’re great at what we struggle with and how to make it better. And, you know, I have ideas, and some people have been doing stuff for 20 years in that office. And they say, Yeah, I like your idea. And that’s a struggle to, right, because I think I’m, I think when I when I usually talk that I’ve thought through all the, you know, 50 avenues that this conversation go down, so if I don’t have anything we’re saying, I usually don’t say it. So when I do talk, and somebody doesn’t listen, yeah, that that gets and gets in the way, right. And that’s an ego driven thing, right? Totally.

Um, for me, it is slow, being slow to start, because I want everything to be perfect, because I’m too critical about everything. Right when Geof and I first started working together, we were not developers. Right. So we had outsourced development and He, he would have to just constantly Hey, look, here, I don’t need you to go learn how to be a developer, right? We don’t have time for that, like, go out and sell, go out and sell, go out and sell. And I didn’t feel comfortable because there were so many things about that world that I wasn’t sure about yet. Right. And now, it’s easier the second time because of all the training and all the stuff that we’ve done and everything else and I’m aware of it. So that’s my thing. You know, in another show, talking about goals, I want to develop a cooking habit, right. And that’s hard for me, excuse me, because I don’t want to cook something badly. Right? Like, like if I…

Just throw it out man, buy two chickens.

It me, bothers me, right? Because that it’s not altogether different from like Clint’s struggle of like failure. Right. But to me, it shows up as like, man, I was wrong. Right. And that wrongness bothers me because I was supposed to have all the facts on the lines of the box and the expectations and understanding all of this stuff. And uh…

Can you can I ask you a question?

Of course. Sure.

Do you expect to be right every time?

Oh, yeah.

Like, who is? I mean, tell me somebody?

I wonder what made you like that? I wonder what makes a person a C that they have to be perfect?

I think it, well, it’s like the gut driven factor of anything. Right? I don’t trust my gut, right. I mean, even even in the martial art school, right, I’d been there for 16 years, I really knew my stuff. But if I was teaching somebody a technique that I taught them 50 times, and someone above me kind of walked by, and they gave me the side eye, I’d be like, hey, right, correct? Because I just wanted to do I just want it to be correct. More than I more than I want to be right. Right.

I mean, so it’s scary to own something.

Particularly a 1987 Chrysler.

So you said slow to start, right. That’s kind of your biggest fear. One of the things that…

Well it’s my biggest struggle.

Struggle. Sure. Yeah. Fear struggle. Sorry. One of the things I do know about you and probably most C’s that I do know is that is that the difference between myself and you, John is that gut driven and fact driven. And you wait on all the facts to align before you talk about it before you start something. And so as a salesperson, right, somebody tells you go, I need you to get out there and sell, I don’t need you to do this right now, I need you to go sell.

Sell what, and sell how much? And on what kind of cadence?

Those parameters and right but I need all there’s also probably a social fear a little bit right. Of getting out there and, and so so I would guess that in the beginning with you, you probably wasted a lot of time building up enough confidence that you’re good enough at this based on what you what you think good is right. And you had to build that up internally to go do that. And that’s the slow start for you right is the building enough enough facts and confidence that I can do this? So I will say that very different as I go blowing through the other door and if I fail, I fail. I go do it again and again and again, right? So if you’re a C out there really struggling with that, right, you’re in a sales role, which it can be really tough. As a C, I would tell you that once you do it and you look backwards on it, you’ll realize how easy it really was to put yourself out there, and you’re going to get beat up a little bit and take the punches and grow. Right?

Sure, but so I get that intellectually, right, but like the cooking thing, Melissa, my partner is just like, hey, just just cook this thing. And I’ll never forget, I was gonna I was gonna saute some chicken, you know, she’s like, Hey, I’m gonna be home late. This is like years ago. Can you just like saute some some chicken and I’ve never done this before. Right? We’ve been together for a very long time. I she she handles the cooking. So I literally spend 45 minutes watching videos on YouTube about like, how to saute a chicken, right? I know.

How about boiling water, how’d you handle that one?

I can do that.

Toast was tough?

See, I think that’s really cool.

Because I have a gadget and the gadget does the majority of the work for me, right? Because I’m also very gadget driven. So and it took me like 45 minutes to saute like, like not very thick chicken breasts, you know, because like I don’t know what the hell I’m doing and then I doubt myself the whole time and then I’m like, man, if I had to spend a little bit more time preparing.

But let me ask you this question. Did you just do it once? I mean saute chicken breast, or have you done it more than one time?

Oh, well, the thing is, is that I don’t get my my C needs met because it because it took too long and didn’t go very well. And this doesn’t really make any sense for like, how much time it took. Why would I do it again?

You choose to never saute a chicken breast ever again.

I’m not motivated to go do it again.

Okay, because here’s the difference. So mine is the variable of I don’t know what wacky individual sits on the inside of this, this desk, whereas chicken breasts are always the same, right? Once you tie that down, you make a mistake, you make a second mistake. You make 100 mistakes and sauteing chicken breasts, eventually things get better sure right. But every time I open the door, it just doesn’t seem to get better. Right, it’s still a roll of the dice as to whether I get Miss pleasant Mr. Pleasant or miss makes me feel bad or Mr makes me feel bad.

But we know that that’s not true because you’re successful.

No, okay, nonetheless, but I’d rather saute chicken breasts and figure out mistakes that I could quantify, qualify, and move forward with than the unknown that I deal with because of my dilemma.

See I go the other way and this is…

Quit being selfish is what I’m telling you.

And I don’t know if this is a if this is a C-ness thing or if it’s just me specifically. I want to go figure out the gatekeeper thing because

So she can be mean to you.

Wait a second, until you try it once and your chicken tastes like shit and the gatekeeper beat’s your ass, well and you never know well then..

We got problems.

But then what, you never do it again? Right you’re not motivated to do that ever again?

What, for the gatekeeper? No, man, I’ve gotten my teeth kicked in.

So what’s the difference. What’s the difference?

Good point.

That’s real good question. I think it’s the reward. Right? Because I can go down the street and get food.

Oh, there’s a there’s an alternative to cook. Right? whereas there isn’t one with the gate guard.

And the other thing is that is that once I figured out how to do the gatekeeper, this is weird, right? Same with chicken though. No, hold on, hold on. I’m, I’m, let me get to my point. The once I can get past the gatekeeper, and I can do that regularly. I’m part of this elite club of people who can do this in the in that other people can’t. I like to be, but I live in that last 20% of everything. Right? I don’t want to know the 80% that everybody can learn. I want to hang out in this last 20% right. And that, you know, you see that in my martial arts training. You see that in like how I think about stuff. And my C-ness enables that, but I like being the guy who wants you there, right.

But when you pop a good dish, right?

I get it. I get no I get.

I mean, just not a foodie.

No, I love food.

No, I know you do. I’m saying I want, my bad, you are shocked. Yeah, we just went came from lunch. I know you’re a foodie. You’re the first one digging in the menu. Right? Yeah. With, with some acumen so that was, yeah, that worked out. Yeah, man What is,

It’s a black hole in here.

Yours is a walk in the park for me, man.


So if why not try something that fits that mentality of skill in the same I’ll say market which would be TV dinners and well maybe maybe you’re the best microwave guy ever but gadget guy

but I had a touch that I

So I love cooking right and I’ll throw, I’ll take whatever out of the fridge and I’ll take whatever spice and I just make a dish and it’s good or it’s bad right. Be there tonight. You like it? I don’t really care. I’ll try anything. And any recipe book that you ever handmade gets thrown away like quickly. I hate recipes. I hate rules. I like this.

So this is interesting.

So why not? But one of the things…

I like to bake.

I was gonna say so one of the things I can’t do is I can’t bake to save my life because I’m reading the book and I get confused and I’m like I don’t know, you know what, it’s too tough, it’s too many rules.

To me I think that this comes down to with like baking if I mess it up it’s because of something that I can find and track and figure out, right. With like cooking there, it’s a lot looser. And when I when I do..

Baking is cooking but go ahead.

Well it’s different, right, because…

It’s a different style of cooking.

Exactly. Baking is very exact right? I mean,

Yeah, I’m not such a good baker.

Baking is way easier than cooking.

See I cook better than I bake and obviously you guys bake better than you cook.

So, for me, I’m okay, I’m okay failing if I can figure out like where it went wrong.

Okay, but, anyway, somehow we got on this cookie. I can dip my finger into my pot and I can I can test it and I can, whereas once I put it in the oven man. I hope that works out because I can read it. Not sure I read that correctly.

That’s why cooking is way better than baking.

The other thing that’s part of it is that is the time you know for cooking specifically right? I don’t want to I don’t want to manage a pot for 35 minutes. No way!

I will throw a brisket on the smoker and stand there with a beer in my hand for like 22 hours.

It’s like making love for like that. I mean, I’m just like, Oh, this is getting better and better and better.

But but to move this back into a sales.

I need brisket right now.

So come on down. You put this in a sales thing right in a fear or or nice keep saying fear a struggle, right? You struggle with gatekeepers or you struggle with making cold calls or whatever or sauteing chicken, right? So how do you because the last thing that I would ever tell you to do is to give up cooking chicken and let somebody else do it and quit you know, or or give up making cold calls if that’s what you’re required to do or your job, your KPIs tell you you have to do. But I will say that I’m a work around guy, right? When I’m not good at something like that. I choose another, I will work twice as hard getting around an uncomfortable thing because I’m better at doing it this way. So cold calling, right? I don’t make them. I don’t do it. And, and I’m not saying that I’m right in that, but I will do everything I can before I pick up that phone and make a simple cold call. And so I’m just saying that some people, they snatch up the phone and dial a random number and they start talking to Bill on the other end like their best friends, right? I don’t have that personality.

But people need to hear that that we all four of us have a different style. Again, I got that because I don’t like dealing with the gatekeepers. I go in the back door I find somebody who knows somebody so I can go around having to just walk in there. And

And to go back to my earlier statement, you know, when we’re talking, you know, I, a lot of times I should just pick up the phone, phone, and make the phone call and you should just stomp through the door. Right?

Exactly I watch other people just what I’m like I can’t I mean,

But I think the common theme here with all of our struggles is the uncomfortable it’s uncomfortable, right? Because it’s a struggle so it doesn’t feel good. It’s like a, it’s kind of like a golf swing. You know, when it feels really natural, it’s probably bad. So it’s not the thing you should be doing.

So as I sit here, this is what started this whole thing is, it’s so vital to have a team and that’s, that’s what started this. Because you have to play off of each other. If you try to go through life. You could try to go through sales all by yourself in your own little. You are…

So I have a selfish motive. The reason I said that is next week, I have to see a whole lot of gatekeepers. I have, we have some promotional material, I’ve gotta get it out there. Okay, and there’s some reality in that, I was gonna say in the fact that if I if somebody there to help out here, it just takes the stress and keeps me like, you know, pointed forward because I’ll quit on myself every day of the week.

You know, and I, as a, you know, if you’re a sales manager out there and you have a sales force behind you make sure that the people that are really good at certain things are doing those things. Don’t know. Yeah, and but to Al’s point, right, I gotta go do all this promotional stuff, and I gotta go deal with the one thing that I struggle the most with. But the person sitting to your immediate left right now is on your team, and has zero struggle with that. So put your efforts forward on your team.

But it still bugs me that I’m not better at it. From a pride standpoint.

No one should be a singular.

I think we all have this a little bit. Probably not Nan so much, but you said pride, check your pride and go with her on 40 of them and learn how I’ve been I know.

I’m saying I know how good she makes me just like I’m like…

And I’m more or less talking to the people out there that are struggling, right? Yes, that going somebody’s gonna go with a Nan, go with somebody that is good at that and see what is it. First of all, you’ll see how confident that person is in doing that task. And you’ll probably gain a little bit of confidence just by watching.

Emulation. Absolutely. I mean, if you’ve ever played any game or done anything, it’s it’s about that repetition and building the redundancy that knows you know, I completely understand.

I mean, I mean I love those little things on I see it on I think LinkedIn every once in a while it’ll say it’ll be a little picture of a guy looking at his watch and it’s the sales manager and somebody he finally has to make a cold call but he tells everybody else to do it every day and he’s like, oh shit time for lunch. I’ll make that after lunch. Because that’s not what he’s good at right or he’s fearful that he’s gonna fail even though he tells everybody to do it.

But Nan has seen me on a sales call. I’m pretty. I’m…

He’s very kind actually.

But it’s pride.

It’s insecurity, security screws, all of us. If you find where your confidence come from, comes from, and go there. You will succeed. I promise that’s what it is.

Or you won’t. And that’s okay too.

Yeah, would you say just so let’s go back to like 2013. And I’m working for Al before any of us know any of these things, right. And he…

That was the Dark Ages in sales. We still made a living though, right? Barely.

Outside the O R. We’re about to go in to a surgery. And John was like, I’m not going in. Again, excuse my language. No, that’s what we’re here for. We are doing this.

So let’s go back before that, okay, hey, hey, how does this work? How do you get you know, you just show up you just there all the time. And then eventually you just get there. And I’m just like, this does not compute like, like, like you’re breaking my head. I know

And I didn’t know that about you right. Or I would have said, Let’s build a process. Absolutely. Here’s our checks and balances.

And the thing is, is that’s actually what he does, and he thinks so that’s what the job is.

Right? Yeah. I mean, I mean, thankfully I mean, he’s put enough work in now that he can be like, okay, you’re this person, so I need to do a little bit more and everything else but like before we knew this, you know, it was kind of let’s go get it. Okay, what?

How did we?

What? What do you want me to go get? And when do you want it back here by?

So the surgeons go Al what do you think I should do? And then we’re in the room and we’re like, I don’t know what….

Glad they didn’t ask me that!

And then he tells me “don’t tell anybody you’re new because they will fuck you” and I’m just like, oh my god so much more!

Not knowing that you’re a C, Yeah, cuz I’m thinking you’re just like me right.

Yeah, well that’s what everybody does.

Did everyone here that? Know who you are and who you’re playing with.

So Clint, like when somebody goes well I have a truck and a wheelbarrow I mean construction Right, right, right let’s do this.

Let’s go. How’s that work for you? I mean it doesn’t.

I know because you I’m sure you see operations that are just here like that, that’s that’s gonna something’s gonna blow up.

Yeah, I mean I absolutely I see that all the time and I just think I think man Okay, and one the whole time I’m thinking I got to get away from this, I got to get myself out of this, I’ve gonna get my reputation out of this forget tied to it, that’s that’s tough.

Because let me stop everybody out there. Clint actually helped our producer rearrange this is our entire studio. So when he speaks construction he knows it from hammer, nail, in his hand doing the work right? Right you know how to work and stuff so your genre and so….

Chandra? Chandra? Chandra?

Gendra is, genre genre. Gendra runs genre. Who’s in charge of that? I’m talking about her in the category of what category you should be in.

So our table this evening, we walk in and Clint is like masterbuilder and our little recording guys, or no.

You just called our producer the little recording guy.

He he’s the hottest man on campus. Is he in the room. Are you kidding me? I apologize.

Paul, get in the room man.

Paul, Paul, like bring the biceps baby, bring the biceps. There’s the voice. He can sing like nobody.

Little guy, the little guy.

I’m just the little guy.

The little guy with that voice. You’re not a little guy.

If you could bring your biceps into the room.

Nan, we’re not having sex here.

Back to the table, okay, so Clint’s going, who the heck made this? That wasn’t his verbiage exactly, but he’s like, who made this jigsaw moment? So it does matter. It does matter.

Where were we?

Oh my Lord. I’m sorry. I said

So okay.

Good segue as far as I’m concerned.

I have to drink my own Kool Aid right. So how do I, how do I stop this from being a thing that keeps me from from moving forward in my businesses, right? Because if I, if I live in this world, and I and I allow myself to be like, Well, let me just read a little bit more. And let me go watch another video and these things, because I think that that’s going to get me. I live in a world where I’m always looking for a silver bullet, I’m looking for the one thing that’s going to work. And that’s just not how things work. I mean, it doesn’t happen in sales. It doesn’t happen in poker, or martial arts, or any of these other things that I’m into. So I do better than I used to, right. But you know, on our goals episode, I talked about the fact that I kind of want to write a book this year, right? It’s on the goal list. And I know that left my own devices, I’ll never get started because hey, what’s the outline? And who do I do this through, and you know, how do other people do this? And everything else and I’ll never even get started. So I set a KPI that I’m going to find three people to talk to you who helped people write books by March.

So when you say I set a key KPI, which relates to some of the other things we’ve spoken up, what was that KPI that got you to? I mean, what is it specifically? Or was it a group of, you know, key performance indicators.

So for me, I think that… motivates you

That motivates you to write that book. Specifically, give an example.

I think that the book is the one of the biggest legitimization levers, right? Everybody can have this podcast, right? I mean, then I love to read so many of them. So I was talking to someone else. And I was like, Hey, you know, I’m thinking about doing another show, or, you know, just like interviewing entrepreneurs, you know, and stuff like this, who have pivoted away from doing the sales. It’s gonna be called Mortal Truth.

Bingo Baby! Daddy’s happy. No, go ahead.

So, help me. And then I was talking to some people that I looked up to, and they’re like, Well, everybody can do one of those. And I was kind of like, Oh, yeah, you know, I’m on one of those. So what do you think the better deal is? And they’re like writing a book, it’s way harder. It’s way more legitimizing everything else. I said, Okay. So then I thought about it, and I said, I’m never going to get this done myself. Right and come up with a lot of ideas. I can write like short bursts of content you know, and things, but the idea of a book that’s gonna have my name on it, and it’s got to be like, good and people, like want to read it. Oh man, that’s a ton of pressure. So then I started looking around for people who not like ghost write, because like, I want to handle the writing, but I want to work with someone who can keep me I’m very much a coached person, right, I mean…

So like an editor or somebody come in and edit what you do.

Edit, help, you know, give me a process so that way I can figure out like, how I’m going to get this thing done, right. And Jocko this guy that Clint and I both talk to, you know, he just wrote an…

Jocko’s gonna help you write?

No, no, no, no.

Oh, cuz I’m like, I know you met him. I swear I thought you were gonna say Jocko was gonna help you write the book, and I’m like, that’s the bomb!

No, he had a process whenever he was writing Extreme Ownership, 1000 words a day, right? You do that for 30 days. At the end of it, you got 30,000 words. that’s a that’s a book you can edit. So, but I know that I will lose myself in that editing, right and won’t ever get anything launched. And so then I started looking for people who have done this before and already or maybe have like a process of what happened helping people do it. And then because I don’t want to go get lost about trying to find the perfect person, I said, Look, I’m going to interview three people by March. I’ll make a decision by June, and then we get the process started right. So that the KPI thing is incredibly helpful for me because it keeps me from just getting lost in the infinite loops of refinement.

Okay, yeah, now you made some sense there, which I just want you and I think we should do more of that. We should outline when we say something, what our process for because you can glean some information as a listener and I glean some information as somebody who may want to write a book someday as well.

Well you’re gonna be super busy with Mortal Truth, so I don’t know if you’re gonna have time.

What is Mortal Truth? Does anybody want to identify?

Moving on, moving on. It’s hush hush until it’s not.

So yeah, the KPIs and the goal setting and then and the accountability, right, because there’s a reason why I share my goals with as many people as I possibly can, right, I know that some people are on this track about saying that you shouldn’t share, share your goals with people. And I think that’s complete nonsense.

I agree. I mean, if you’re not willing to put it out there and be held accountable by the people that you’ve spoken to, and it’s okay to not get it done, but you own not getting it done. Yeah. Right. And then you move on, and you build another project, because it doesn’t mean you fail. You just didn’t get that done.

I have two, I have two different accountability calls with two different accountability partners on different topics each week, just to like, make sure that I’m doing these things and moving things forward. Of course I do, right. But it’s helpful, right? It’s not that the pressure of the call is what’s making me do it. It’s I just don’t want to get on the phone with this person and say that I didn’t get the thing that I that I got done and all my goals are very KPI focused, right because I have complete control over it.

Which is different for me because I’ve tried that and all I do is show up and talk about how I didn’t get shit done.


And somehow, the lights stayed on everything. Yes. Okay. But it made me feel again another one of those. I’m like, I can’t be very happy with this because I keep showing up not having my stuff accomplished.

I’m a little insecure at this moment. You haven’t talked for a minute. Go ahead, baby.

No. Yeah, I don’t know that I have anything to say.

Clint doesn’t ready, and he can barely write.

I like eating crayons. Green ones are my favorite. Now, I will say that as you’re saying, as you were talking about the whole thing I was thinking was obtainable goals, right? Make sure that the goals that you have are obtainable within your your purview of talents and, and things that…

And how do you know that I mean, in your own personal world, how do you…

I think you know your strength, right. I think you know your strengths. I think, you know, deep down what you’re good at, and that comes through trial and error. Right? You do certain things. Hey, you know, one of the things that I could tell you is I love to shoot hoops. I love to play basketball. I’m not the best at it.

I’ve never known that.

Well I mean, I but I like to do I don’t like to do it at all. You hear that? Now it’s the three.

But here. I like to do it in my own driveway with the kiddos. And I think it’s fun. It’s just kind of reminds me of my childhood. We did that a lot. But if I set a goal to be in the WMBA, that’s a really stupid goal.


Yeah, not me. And I have a reason I say WNBA because it’s just an unobtainable goal, right. So it is truly it. Does that make sense? Like and I shouldn’t work my whole life towards that when I can put my focuses were on something I can I can I can make a difference in.

I heard someone say this once that if, if when you think about the goal, if you don’t get motivation around, yes, I can do this. Then it’s then it may be too big, right? If your quote is like 25…

Well you’re not really qualified to do it. So why why spend your entire life waste a bunch of time.

Because you’re gonna miss out on so much you could have changed.

Could have been really pushing cuz he had passion and you were fairly good at.

Hear me out, I hear so many of these motivational coaches and I have read some books on but uh but i have read some articles.

He’s a VP of a big worldwide corporation.

But uh you know these these people will will kind of fill your head with some nonsense a little bit to the point of it’s like if you think it you can do it it’s like no that’s come on realistically and that’s why I love this podcast so much because realistically you probably there are some things you just literally can’t do.

And should stay away from and go do other things.

Because if you, if you blow if you if you if your passion is to fail, then go try try those things for always Yeah, right. But if you like success, which I think most people especially us up here we we like success. We like being good at things, but I’ll also tell you that’s why you’re that’s why you need to diversify in who you’re around who you’re friends with. Who’s on your team, right? Because John has talents. And Nan has talents and Doc has talents that I don’t. That’s why we surround each other. Right?

But have that humble attitude that you’re not me but I’m really interested in what you have going on right? I mean, when you look across the table.

But also I want to I want to address I am so as I feel like Clint made mention of I’m so tired of speak positive. Yeah, speak positive, but act positive. Like quit the crap. You’ve got to do the hard work, do it.

I mean, I mean, I was trying to think of a you know, an analogy here but like imagine like a NASCAR pulling into the pits and everybody on that crew could drive but nobody could change a tire or fill the gas tank. Oh, yeah, you’re screwed. Right? So the guy that’s the badass gas tank filler upper. Let him Do that and and make him the best one on in the whole business, right? And if you’re the driver, you’re the driver. There’s no, you can’t do either one without out each other. Right? So just put your focus on stuff that is obtainable.

Yeah, so it was, it was weird because we’re talking about the show last night, the show making it that’s on NBC with, you know, Nick Offerman and Amy Poehler and I love to watch it. And part of me was getting really, really bummed out that I don’t have this creative maker kind of gene, right? Because I talked to Clint, and he’s like, Oh, yeah, man, we can just build this. And I’m just like, Huh, all right. And I know some other woodworkers that are capable of doing really good things. And for a second, I was like, man, it sucks that I’m not that person. And then I was like, Well, wait a minute. I could just go hang out with a bunch of people and surround myself with a circle like that. And then eventually, I would start thinking in that way.

Or just go to Ethan Allen and buy whatever you want.

Well, yeah, that’s an option.

But the thing is, is like I think, on that realm is like you talked about, you know, hanging around that person. When I do stuff for people that that I know that that’s not their talent. I think we’ve all probably done this. Like, I’m not doing all the work for you for free. Yeah, we’re good friends, but we’re not that good. Like, I’m not doing all this for free.

You have any friends that are that good?

Probably not. But I want you to be a part of it. Right? Yeah. If you pick up a nugget out of all the things that I know when I pick up a nugget out all the things, you know, it just

Is a nugget a tool? I’m just kidding.

I’m always like, boss, you need another beer?

Yeah, exactly. Okay, yeah. But

I’m running into McDonald’s cuz you look hungry.

And I’m good with that. Because, I mean, that’s, that’s really the point of it, right is to surround yourself with those people that fill the fill the gaps that you need.

So and I’m like, the next time you get gonorrhea, you know, got your back.

A friend of mine is kind of like revamping his whole house to sell it and, and I said, Well, hey, do you need any help? Thinking? Yeah,

I can move some furniture.

Here’s the deal, and he starts to get really excited and he was like, hey man isn’t up with the drywall in the paint. And I was No way. We have different. We have different versions of what help is. Let me I should have explained a little bit better.

I can bring you a Starbucks.

And you’re like, Whoa, whoa, whoa.

And I had to back up I said, it was like, wait a second help means I come over and I can hold something. Or I can talk shit to you and make fun of you while you’re doing these things. And…

That’s what I’m dying to hear while I’m like slaving to hold sheet rock up and tape him back? Hey,

I can help I can help hold sheet rock. There’s no there’s no skill set involved with that. But I’m color commentary. I’m I’m the humor and those kinds of things. But he was like, No, I think I’m good. It’s probably for the best. So yeah, I don’t know, struggles, right? We all have them. Right? You gotta you gotta figure it out. And honestly, it starts with like, knowing who you are, right? Because if you are a C right in, whether you know this or not, you have got some of the same struggle that I’ve been talking about, right, the D’s and the I’s and the S’s all the way around the table. So it starts with knowing that, right? I can’t tell you how many companies I worked in to where I would ask questions just to get clarity and they’d be like, oh, John’s a troublemaker. He’s not a team player. He’s not he’s not on the board, right? I mean, in in the army, like as a, you know, PV nothing. And I’m like asking Hey, why don’t we do it this way? Just shut up and do it you know and all this stuff.

How did you survive that? Not not well, wow, right you guy that’s the guy that got the brunt of like, thank goodness.

No I mean basic was okay because like…

I’d just try to not laugh, like you’re serious?

I struggled way more in my in my in my unit because I was in the reserves and I learned you know I learned and trained on all this like really high end stuff you know, secret level security clearance encryption stuff and then I go back to my unit, which is a reserve unit. And it’s like the Vietnam era crank phones with the two wires and I’m like, What the fuck? I go from this to this? I’m like, this is this is terrible. And they’re like, this is the gear we have, we make do and I’m like, why can’t we get better gear you know? And then I start asking these questions. I’m like, Whoa, John’s not a team player. I am just asking questions because I need to understand So, you know, it’s a struggle.

Yeah. Let’s get on the Throwdown. Clint, Clinton, if I may, because that haircut says Clinton. For D’s with struggles, right? What do you suggest? How do you? How do you deal with it?

Yeah. To recap, you know, you just, you know, you really got to make sure that the struggle that is in your, in your face, is it really a struggle to fight? Right? I mean, that that for me is my big one is, is this a really a battle that I really have to go? Is it necessary? Do I have to go through this? Can I get through it? And if I can, what do I have to do to myself that to train myself better to get through this and in all walks of life, right. So as a D you have all those tools, I think to put your mind through something and get over the feelings and the emotions and you plow through it just with pure training and skill. Unless it is an emotional struggle, right because that that’s that’s a real thing for me is an emotional connection and struggle. So like I said those those I really need to pick my battles and if I don’t I my mind doesn’t compute all that very well. So I I’ve failed double than what I should because it because it really is a it’s a powerful negative in my life so you know, work around it or go through it or don’t do it. You know, like those are your kind of your three options and you got to pick the best one for the time and then figure it out.

Awesome. Al, Albert?

Yeah, this is gonna be a to be content to be continued. This the struggle I have with the gatekeepers is my new current KPI.

So what So what exactly is the KPI?

Engagement with a true gatekeeper on a cold call? And the win or the loss and what what it what does each one of those mean? What was the loss, was I completely shut out? Or was there an around about, and keeping notes about that for 2020 and I’ll be back to talk about that. You know how many times I was immediately allowed in? What did I physically, I mean, I’m going to take notes and I’ll be back with you guys on that. So that’s an ongoing story.

Do you have a weekly count on the number of gatekeeper conversations you’re gonna try to get into?

And no, because I’m, I have to get to there, but I don’t have it just yet. But next time, yeah. This is gonna be an ongoing story with with me.

Okay, Miss Nannette?

So I always told I have three grown children now, but I always told them that life comes in waves and if you expect every day, every month, every year to be just wonderful, you’re kidding yourself. There, there will be issues. And I think it’s really important expect distractions. And don’t camp there. Don’t think that this is how it’s always going to be because there’s good days bad days, that’s just life. And I think that you push through the distractions easily, very easily. Actually, the distractions are easier than any of us think. And in my world, I’ll get hammered on this probably later but so you push through. So pray until something else happens. And in my world, it happens every time something better happens every time push through.


Interesting, what does interesting mean?

It’s just interesting.

Okay, thanks.

So for me for C’s, set goals, so that way you don’t get lost and you know, the the everlasting refinement loop. You got to be okay with change, you know, I didn’t really touch too much on that. But I have a huge problem. I don’t like change. You know, I like to have my day set, my week set, that I like to do these things. So be okay with a little bit more winging it maybe not as much as you know team is going to propose to do. But wing it a little bit set goals with like really clear timelines and everything else like this. That way you don’t end up not ever moving forward. So..

That’s great.

Yeah, this might be my favorite show. So if you know anybody in sales, who’s struggling, or if they don’t know who they are, or you know any of these things. Share this with them. If you’re listening and you’re enjoying it, write a review if you’re not also write a review, because that’s how we get better. Follow us on social media. Everything is at Sales Throwdown. And if you want to take the assessment, reach out everything. You can get it at assessment@salesthrowdown.com, thanks a lot. Thank you and we want to talk to y’all.