Episode 33: Leading Your Sales Team With DISC

Episode 33 Sales Throwdown


Let’s get ready to Throwdown!

And welcome to the show everybody.

And welcome. So what are we talking about today? It was missing the next choice.

Well, I was just thinking it would be interesting to talk about the leadership, a company. Okay? So we’ve talked about this numerous times about the adven- is how it’s advantageous to have all the different the DISC and a team. I mean, creating a team in a company. So I was listening to this gentleman that one, you know, the number one company, and he was just saying, I’m a this type of personality. And when I hire, I look for someone that will make up for my weakness, with their strength. And so I think it’s really important even if you’re just working with Alan I’ve talked about, we’re completely different. And so we, and I don’t really think it’s bad cop, good cop, kind of, but it’s that kind of scenario. When you just have two people, you somewhat you know, you you’re taking your strength, and someone else’s weakness and you’re going to help each other. Now, if you’re going to build a company, you really want to know, you really want to have all the dynamics, working together helping each other, be it in sales, just in meetings, you know, even in a board, you want to make sure that all the people are different, and you are going to pull from the strengths from each person.

So I mean, it takes the adage of, it takes a village, right? what I get from it takes a village is that there’s jobs out there that people will do willingly and love to do that everyday that I’m not so excited about. I’ll do it, but it’s not my forte, I’m not good at it, you’re naturally good at it. So to your point, Nan have like a company or, you know, let’s just talk about developing a sales team, right? If you’re a one trick pony, and you have your entire lineup filled with one personality, well, then you’re only going to deal with one type of customer.


Completely agree. Yeah, yeah.

I mean part of part of says a, you know, in a leadership role or even just a salesperson, you’re a matchmaker. I mean, that’s, that’s one of the biggest part of your, you know, tools and tools is that you should be a good matchmaker.

So in medical sales, a lot of times you’re trying to match personality, right? The decision makers, usually the surgeon, or you know, the doctor who’s using the product, pharmaceutical sales, same way, any frontline any medical sales, this guy that you’re putting it in his hands, but you know, whoever you’re putting it in, hands up. And if you’re not trying to recognize who your audiences who all the players in their office are, and how their team’s work, let’s not let’s not just talk about how our team work. Absolutely. If you don’t walk into an office and go, this is who this person is, male or female, you know, predicated on you. You can see where they sit in the organization, whether they’re the receptionist, there, the security guard there, the whole microcosm of what their culture presents to you. So if you start figuring out who those people are That’s a competitive advantage, right.

Because it’s a whole, it’s a dynamic of a bunch of different people. If I’m only focused on S’s, I finally tweak an S, how am I going to handle working with the D, I mean, that’s just not gonna work you you have to know, you know, and it as outside in medical field, so I work with a surgeon. I also work with the office manager, and I also work with the staff. And everybody has a different personality. And each time I go in there, I have to, it’s not so much a chameleon, but I have to shift who I’m talking with, to meet how they’re going to be comfortable. I don’t want to make anyone in the office uncomfortable. I want everyone to feel like we’re a good fit. And I think we can be, I think it’s really important to be able to do that.

Sure. I can tell you personal experience. The most successful I’ve ever been as a salesperson has been utilizing everybody around me to sell, I sell through right on my team. And even to the point where a lot of you a lot of sales people out there so worried about losing their commission, losing their sale, right? So they, they go into a meeting knowing full well they’re not the right fit for this, but they got to make it work. Otherwise, I’ll lose my commission. I can tell you there’s, there’s a backdoor to that. I’ve done it myself, and you got to have a good leader in front of you to do this. But you go to that person say, Look, I’m not the right fit for this. One, you got to understand that about yourself. I’m not the right fit for this customer. But that guy on our team over there, they will match perfectly. Let me coach him up. Take him to the meeting. Let me sell through that guy. And if I do, and we still make the sale, you give me credit, right? Yeah, but you gotta identify that up front. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You get an agreement that you get an agreement from the get go, you set an expectation. Absolutely. So there is ways that even though maybe you’re stuck in one personality spectrum and you you’re not quite there to be able to judge other personalities and sell the other personalities. Maybe somebody on your team is and look, if you’re truly a team player, that’s what you’re you’re trying to build a company, you’re trying to build an organization, you’re trying to build some backlog for your time.

And that’s coming from a D. So it’s it I think it would be really difficult for a D and I’m so happy to hear you say that because a D to step aside and say…

But he wants his team to do that, so he’s talking from a leadership role as well as having been in the rank and file prior to being where he’s at, right?

Well, because I see, because I think that you know, as a D, I tend to look at the weaknesses of everybody first before I look at everybody’s good traits right? So I see that and I’m like, Well God damn if you if you take your weakness set it aside and use his strength and put it together with we’d all win right? and private private jets on the…

I’s just call those superpowers, man agree. But there’s, use your superpowers man, put the cape on, my kid does it, it made his day good.

But I have same I have set in the room with a teammate of mine. That is maybe even, you know, another salesperson in my company. And I think God, if he makes this relationship, he’s going to get the credit for the sale. Right? And that’s where I’ve learned to set those expectations with my boss to say, hey, look, us as a team, right? We’re going to go, because I’ve seen him work that room and it just happens that customer clicks really well with him. And if you’re truly all about growing your company and growing your backlog and growing your business, you won’t give a shit about your own.

Exactly. Because if there’s only three customers, you’re fucked, anyway, right? Yeah, there’s a world of customers in every one of these arenas. And if you’re holding on with like a death grip on every damn lead, and every damn like encounter you have if you’re again to speak back to what you said, if you’re not the right fit, don’t struggle, give it to somebody as a gift. If you have to get some grease, if you can get it on the side, and then move on. There’s another prospect another day.

And I’ve said in many episodes, burn them, get rid of ’em. If they don’t fit you get rid of them. Right. And and what I mean by that is you got to go through your whole toolbox, right? And if you have people in your toolbox, use them first. If they don’t fit with anybody in your company, they’re not a right fit, burn them go find another one. I agree with that. But if they don’t fit you and you burn them, maybe they fit your company.

But you ‘ve got a fat zero if you burn them, right, why not use them as like a peace offering? Or give it to another guy that’s in your in your crew? Yeah, I mean, least you get some, you know, some kudos over the whole thing.

Agreed and, in my head, because I…

And your company’s not gonna want to get rid of you because they’re tracking that. Where did that come from? You know, the smart. So they’re seeing you as a team player. You know, you’re not the only guy on the court. You’re, you’re shoveling stuff off, because it’s a better score for them. Sure. And now you come back as a you know, if you’re in a corporate structure, there’s nothing more golden than that. You can’t be the solo player that doesn’t help anybody in that team. If you’re in a major corporation.

Not anymore.

That’s I mean, yeah, I was gonna say

You have to add value to other people.

Sure. I mean, I mean, the the days of Like the lone cells, wolf of the guy who just like exists, or just shows up with, like the deal, and like, there’s no clarity about where it came from, or any of these things, like more and more companies are like, I don’t want that. I want to be able to like track and measure and like, see the future. And you know, and like, that comes from data and forecasting and process.

Especially going through a huge market crash here. Recently, not in the last couple of years, but in the last 10, 15 years. People that that was a wake up call, right for a lot of companies and the ones that didn’t track and the ones that didn’t have a process, they they went away, they don’t exist to this day. And the ones that had something they they were…

They were able to, they replicated it very quickly once the firestorm of over money was over.

You know, the thing is, is there’s, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of companies out there that actually thrived through that downturn because…

Blood in the streets man that’s money making time.

I think there’s something to be said for your for your intentions, right. You know, and we talked about culture on you know, a show a few episodes back, but like if you were just bringing people in and you’re coaching them on like, like, just go make the dollar doesn’t matter how you get it or anything else. Like you’re building that kind of mentality of like, at all costs, I have to win, like no matter what, where as if you have this culture around like, hey, look, we want to work with the right kinds of people and here’s what that right kind of person is and go get these kinds of things. And if it doesn’t line up here, you’re you’re not going to catch any flack from us.

Well, but with the advent of like Internet and communications and civilization in general, boiler rooms have gone asunder, people usually don’t sell just cramming the phone, on the phone. Right. And now with some of the sophistication of our just our general societies, were intermingling, we’re trying to mesh industries to you know, to meet certain needs from clients and then so there’s so much more interaction that you have with so many more players, I think, in a real sense.

You know, you say that about like the boiler room kind of thing being gone, but like some of these huge tech companies that are like software as a service, like you know I mean I mean those things feel very I mean you’re grinding on a dialer, right.

And but here’s the deal, if you’re in that game guess what India is killing that scenario nothing against my Indian brothers and sisters out there but they are finding that to be the cheap sales route right.

Put a lot of numbers up to though yeah right I

Oh no, they do money yeah but but it’s it’s is that the sales you know guy that you want to be or gal that you want to be.

We’ve talked about it 100 times it’s you know, you make 100 phone calls, you get one that’s successful. That’s a successful sales model. You made a sale.

That’s why it’s going to India but yeah,

But now you need to, you got to have 200 phone calls, you need three you need 300 phone calls, in in the environment that we all live in. That’s I couldn’t there’s no way I could do that business, right. So I have to be selective and get the hundred phone calls down to maybe five or 10 and that that’s all about putting that team together that can go do that.

And you know, using social media and using your email and making sure that you’re see, because you and you can speak to this better than any of us, John, in how do you organize all that? Right? Your How do you lead your own life? Right? Where do, we started with leadership, which means, you know, sales teams and people around you whether you’re on the team or you’re the leader, but at the end of the day, you’re your own sales leader for your world in sales, right? Because if you’re not thinking that way, then you’re never going to be where you want to be eventually, right?

Yeah, no, I agree.

With that community management working your own team pulling people together using the success that you started from the first ground level all the way up the ladder of wherever you want,

But there’s there’s some problematic issues that come up with that.

I knew you were gonna point that out for me.

If let’s say that we…

Because it’s all pie in the sky for me,

Exactly right, you know, but like if we mix you two guys together, right you know the I/D, which is kind of the golden…

I’d karate chopping first, or so I gotta like, I gotta deaden this side of his body so that I can…

Still got a right side.

I picked your right dominant, I’m a dumb ass. I’m, I meant the other side.

Trust me, I’m double dominant.

All right. So there’s no weak side here.

So what happened, right? Is is the I/D, right? Who’s like the golden ratio? Right? Like, this is what people are looking for when they’re like talking about the fact that they can’t get a hunter, you know, which is like crazy like that, that whole metaphors got to go away, in my opinion. But that guy’s gonna kill it. Right? Because they can get in the doors, they can have good conversations, they can, they can drop stuff, they can move on, they can put pressure on people and feel totally okay about it, right. Like, that’s the golden thing of like the traditional salesperson. But then what happens is when you promote that person up, right, they’re not a great teacher, out of the

They’re a doer.

Nobody is good at teaching out of the box, right? And it’s crazy because from the martial arts background, I’ve got to teach right and and Al’s had to teach, you know, and it’s like, you find out really quick how much you actually know.

Al is a bad teacher,

When you have to teach it to someone else.

But truly, I think sorry, Al. I do think, to what you’re saying, but I’m thinking about going back to the team, the leadership. It’s mentoring, you have to influence other people. So I think that there’s strength.

Okay. That’s the warm blanket to what John just said. Right. But I do…

So I agree with you, right? Like that’s how it should be because the lines right here. But what’s wrong? That’s right, what normally happens, right? You take your hit your highest performer out of the field, which doesn’t make any sense anyway, and you put them into a management role, with just just assuming that they’re going to be able to teach their wisdom to like everybody else, and they’ve been doing it for so long, it’s instinctual, right? And the more instinctual it is, the harder it is to teach to like someone else, you’re gonna, you’re gonna speak to the two of the things that make the hundred as opposed to like, the 60 or 70.

I would guess that what you’re talking about happens in my construction the most right? You get a, you get a pipe fitter.

It’s every it’s every, maybe, but I agree with both sides.

You get a helper right you try and be a pipe fitter, he becomes a great pipe fitter and you’re like, well he’s the best guy got so I need to I gotta get another crew. But we’ll take the best guy I got now and we’re going to make him a team leader or a foreman right? But he’s a shitty foreman, he’s an awesome pipe fitter, shitty foreman right. Because the skill sets are different. Then and then and then he fails right so you’re like well I can’t put them, I can’t go backwards with him. Let’s make him a project manager. I mean, this happens.

I’m gonna answer this. Third string NFL players make the best coaches, not the best player. They go on to do commercials and stuff but the guy who’s sitting there with the clipboard the background guy, the guy that wasn’t good enough to throw and I was that guy, growing up my entire freakin life. Like, like thank you the uniform doesn’t fit but I’m glad to be on the field. Helmet, I can turn it all the way around.

Al, we need water.

I’m on it. I’m on it. I’m on it. John, cause you’re not the coach. You’re that big guy in front of me that I can’t see past, and I’m like looking around like alright, I’ll get you some water.

I mean, but you’re right not many NFL quarterbacks that have retired ever become coaches. It’s always the guy you’ve never heard of becomes a coach. And he always played, but never was

Understood, student of the game, but just didn’t have or so we, to your point is, if you have a guy that that knows all the scripts, understands, and you’ll see that guy in your organization, and what he’ll be able to do is he’ll be able to have enough success in sales. It’s not a complete failure. Don’t get me wrong. He’s just not your stellar guy. And he has some acumen in, you know, the C range, right he’s sort of that chameleon so he can float around. The worst thing like you said, is to take some guy that’s full of bravado, that’s done a lot of sales, but then wanted to leave it behind but then it’s all about his grades like the quarterback from high school, that bitch in front of me, right?

How much you wanna bet that I can throw a football over them mountains.

Yeah, exactly. And I’m like you always could man even from high school because that’s the best days of your fucking life.

I’ll take that bet.

But yeah, so that’s what normally happens, right? You take the best producer, which doesn’t make any sense, because why would you take your top performer out of the field to replace him with someone who probably has no experience and you got, you got the learning curve, and they’re probably not gonna perform as highly.

But if you’re challenged with the guy saying, hey, I want to be a manager, right? You know, the sometimes that happens, sure, the lead guy wants…

It’s not all bad, don’t. I mean, because some of those greatest people are there for reasons right and they need to be there so they can teach down.

Exactly. And if they come up and you find that guy and he wants to be pliable, and you’re honest with the conversation that says, hey, John, you’re my lead guy. This is gonna hurt how do we work this out? I don’t think your management much if you can, as the guy above him, work him into the system, right? Knock the rough edges off it. Like I said, People can change, its evolution. Spot the desire but if he wants to take, I’m the best. I’ve been the quarterback up to the next level, he’s gonna alienate some weaker caribou in the crowd. You’re gonna have some people that you could train up that fall out.

Yeah, if you can take one great guy and make three really good guys to become great guys. That’s a win, of course. Yeah,

Of course, yeah, of course that’s a win, right. No, I’m not I’m not disputing that, I’m just saying that that skill set is not inherant, universal, by success.

Yeah, absolutely. And to Nan’s point, like there, there’s a leadership traits that fall in these categories of DISC that translates well from that position to that position. And there’s some that just don’t, right. A C would be one of those natural personalities….

Road blocks.

Depends on the day.

But it’s one of those natural it’s one of those natural personalities that doesn’t translate well into a okay now I’ve got this whole team that I have to manage. I got to deal with personalities got to deal with a lot of stuff. Oh, for sure.

Oh, for sure, because I’m cold, and you’re cold.

And I see that when I see a, you know, you start a company grow it, you get an accountant, you get them on their staff, right? And then just in this example, that accountant now has to have more accountants and so he’s been here the longest we’re gonna make him the CFO. Right? Yeah. And the CFO now has to people manage. He’s not in the day to day spreadsheets, he is but he’s also going to staff. That doesn’t, I don’t, I’m just saying that in my…

I think that sales is an outlier in this idea that your top performer is not necessarily going to be the best leader.

Well, what I’m where I’m going with that, though, is that sometimes you need that CFO to stay as an accountant and hire a team manager to manage the staff. So what Nan, Nan brought up is that, you know, how do we deal with personalities and, and all this stuff with leadership and that’s, that’s one really good example that I can think of is just because he’s an accountant doesn’t he doesn’t have to be the CFO. Right? You need a leader in the CFO.

Exactly, that’s why I brought up this this gentleman that has this company that is thriving. And he said he was able to identify that in order because people were going How did you do this? How are you this successful? And he clearly steady stated it. I know how to identify people. I know how to make team. And and I think back to my point, do I think it was

Who is this guy? Do you remember his name at all, or the podcast?

I don’t remember his name. I apologize. No, I would

If you find it, put it in the notes.

Because as you’re talking, you know, Extreme Ownership, a book we’ve both read John, is you know, Jocko Willink and Leif Babbin, that that’s what they talk, this exactly what they talked about. For sure, right? Overcoming, going into a business, assessing the situation, realizing that not everybody is, you have the right team, but they’re not all in the right spots. Right. And personalities have a huge key factor in that right. So you got a guy that could kill sales. But he’s an estimator, or he’s an accountant. Like, maybe you got all the right moving parts, but you got to assess all that moving around.

But there’s, you know, it’s weird. Because like, I know, well, they also have to want to do it exactly that. And that’s the thing, right? I know, it’s got to be by I know, I know a ton of people like like our buddy Matt. Right? He would crush as a sales guy, he would absolutely crush it. But he has no interest. Right? And he works offshore. Right? So he’s gone for three weeks. He’s home for three weeks, right? And he’s got this like work balance life that that isn’t there at all.

But as a good leader, you got to know when to push people past their uncomfortable zone to get them to success, you have to.

Yeah, you have to you have to identify that.

But at the end of the day, I mean, you can modify somebody’s behavior in the short run, right? That’s called prison. But in the long run, we all attempt to maximize our vision of our greatest self. Sure.

And I think we all have a little self buy-in to that the train of thought, right, is that…

And we can even self isolate for limited times.

Right? So I always always joke with my wife because she was wanting to go back to work here recently. Like, she wants to go get a job. And I’m like, well, you don’t have, you’re rich. You don’t have to. You don’t have we don’t need you to go get a job. We’re fine. Right, rich. But I was telling her, I was like, Okay, if you do this, and I was just talking to our famous producer, Paul back here’s that,

Famous. Yeah, soon.

And I was but I was telling him to stop flexing,

When when you when you do that there’s a chain of events that comes out of that now we have to do these things with the kids now. Thanks. Right. So I know that you you may want it, she may want it right. And and that’s kind of one of them deals where it’s like, and I joke with her constantly is that you ever know of a great 90s band that was just killing it and then all sudden that lead singers like I’m going to do this shit on my own and he leaves and they both fail. Sorry, spit right on ya. But they both fail, right. And then what? And then what do you do? Right? Now you’re just all failures because one guy, somebody couldn’t hold that all together and say that, hey, we’re better together with all the moving parts and pieces and all the personalities.

You gotta look at the big picture.

You do, exactly.

Right because like there’s so many families where it doesn’t make sense for the stay at home mom or dad to like actually go out and get a job because you know, if you’re, if you have a gap in the resume and stuff like that you’re coming in and you’re not going to make enough money to pay for the daycare.

Wait a second, there’s the tragedy in America though. Right. The capability of when, when daycare is is you know, a salary in itself.

Yeah, 50 grand a year.

Yeah. I went I waited tables when I worked for Al, right, because I was like, hey…

Because of daycare. That’s a travesty. We live in a better country than that.

You know what, and and I feel pretty good that you say that and I feel pretty good about myself right now because I literally,

This is different than…

normal. When do you not feel good about yourself?

I feel better, I feel better than normal yeah. So literally I’m I’m looking to hire somebody on my team right now and in the person that I have in my mind is exactly that, not you. Is somebody that has had some experience became a stay at home mom, is eager to get back in the game right and and there’s a bunch of things or financial reasons for me right to be able to hire that person because it just should be a little bit less right on the pay scale and stuff like that. But the other side of is I want somebody eager to grow in that position because I have a 5 year plan.

We’re gonna be criticized for it could reach out and go nab a stay at home mom at a lesser rate, you know, that’s a little bit of a pariah. You spoke the truth. I’m true. Okay. And guys, it’s all about your vote. Get out there and we go into 2020 the end, and I’m not you, you know…

You can chastise me all you want.

No, I’m not chastising. I’m simply calling you to the carpet for what you just said.

But the point of it is, is that there’s a lot of reasons because I need that person but I don’t have the I don’t have the money in the you know, you know what I’m saying

Okay. Here, here’s where this gets rectified. Is this because, I can see the real conversation is saying our budget only allows for this. I think this is where this meets your reentry into. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not saying you’re not worth it, right. Because if you frame that the right way is you just came out of a dormant stage, we’re giving you an opportunity because we’re weak on cash and payroll can’t sustain a

Well now you make it feel like I’ve got a broke ass company.

Oh, so you bitch out, you’re holding back on a deserving individual, male or female, it could have been a dude taking care of his kids for

Why don’t I just take out 30 grant of my salary.

Wow, man, seriously.

So so let’s back up a bit because I’m curious. For this role, what, do you know

Have my DISC personality picked out?

Is is an S?

It’s an S/C, S/C okay? It’s an S/C.

Why, why specifically an S/C?

Cuz she’s been stretching your budget at home. She’s only got a one income family.

I need data and facts and I need…

She’s bringing her spreadsheets man cuz she’s been I’ve been on food stamps.

And to Nan’s point to a tee I don’t have that personality on my team and I need it. I need somebody to hold hold the moral ground of what’s going on in business. I need somebody to hold us to the carpet of Hey, guys, you know, like, we’re going to get through this, like, whatever bad times good times, I need that person. I need that moral support. Okay, so

Bring her in and pay her more.

Maybe, prove your worth.

Well, but I’m not against saying hey, here’s the deficient…

But the thing is that I say if that job when I heard that person with that personality, when they do their worth, they will you’re gonna pay.

You’re gonna pay em at the end of the day.

They’ll gain their worth because you’re gaining me worth. Right. Right. So I have a five year plan for that. role of a three year plan for however 18 months time for that role, five week plan for that role. You’d love it. I even turned it down on a spreadsheet, made a Gantt chart and everything.

Gantt? I love me some Gantt charts.

So, going back to the conversation with your wife, you know when she wants to go out and get a job. How does that conversation go? Because she’s not a D.

I told her the street corners aren’t…. no. Anyway. She’s not a D. Strike two? So she doesn’t listen. That’s good. I hope not. Babe, if you do, I’m sorry.

I understand why people vote for Trump now.

Wow, we’re not touching that, stop it, stop the madness. Okay. So

If I don’t show up to work on Monday, check Clint.

There was so many radio dials that just went click. Or whoa!

Okay, back to wisdom.

So what, wisdom man, yeah. So where’d you leave the conversation? Is she is she okay? Does she get it that you guys are like a team and that she’s providing value at home?

I can’t tell you all my secrets. I beat her into submission. I’m talking about psychological submission.

My goodness gracious.

Is that better or worse?

I don’t need the cops at my house tomorrow.

Oh, they’re coming.

Okay, so are you are you pleading the fifth row?

No, no, no.

Cuz they gotta drive past the bunkers get to your front door. Does Avon have this much trouble?

You think they’d make it through the C-wire?

They’re all busted up and helicopters are flying.

Alright, Team I. All right.

I know before they even get to the driveway. But where we left the conversation was, you know if that’s what you need, personally, to fulfill your needs as a as a human being, and I’m all supportive of it. But if you’re doing it because you think we need something extra, I’m telling you that we don’t, right. So there was a big compromise there. If this is you, this is you as a person that you feel that you need to fulfill something. Hey, I’m, we’re a team, I’m here for you. And that’s, that’s kind of where we left it.

At any level, do you feel like challenged of like, I don’t need to work because I make enough and like, just stay home? Like,

That was my initial reaction.

Sure that, that’s what I’m alluding to.

But the other side of it was a all the headaches that you’re going to cause me, selfishly, you know, going back and that’s real. You finished? Well, yeah. But I mean, that’s real, right? Because you do that and now we’ve got a daycare it and we’ve got to do all these things we never have had do. And now somebody else’s involved in our family affairs, which isn’t, you know, at present, that that’s not what happens. We’re, we’re very much involved in our own stuff. So there was a lot of things that went into that conversation like like that. But, you know, to put that in a leadership, you know, team.

This is good, life goes home with you. I mean, your career goes home with you.

Clint, put it in a leadership category, I’d like to know.

To put it in this category, right is that you should be having similar conversations with your teams if you’re a leader out there, right? Absolutely. Is You know what, okay, you want to do this, you want to move up, right? You want to raise, you want to do all these things. That’s great. This is what I need today. And you’re not fulfilling that role maybe. And here’s where I need you to get to if you want to map out a three year plan to get to there. Like all those things matter and and how you have that conversation with every one of your guys personality wise, or, or gals.

But as a leader, you have to decide what those benchmarks are, and they’re clearly defined so that not only you understand what means success, but the people that work with you and for you You work alongside,

I’m given a goal. I need you to do this amount this volume a year, right? And then five year plan. I need you to be here. Yeah. To me, that’s all I need. Give me the five and give me the now. This is where you want me This is where you want me to be. Give me that. Don’t tell me how to do it. Don’t give me ideas don’t give me shit.

That’s you though, what about your staff?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. So I take that I decided for that. And I put all my staff into play, right? All personalities who fits, who can do this? Who can help me get there? And I put that in a plan. Right? That’s me.

So let’s say that, let’s say that I that I work on your team right now. And I’m going to ask you a ton of questions. Sure. Right. Because as a C, I want to know the lines of the box and very clear expectations because I want those facts because I because ideally at a level, I think every C wants to be able to be like I did exactly what you told me to do. Yeah, this was it.

So I have a guy similar that if I told him I need you to do this today. That’s a bad move for him because When he’s done with that task, you might get it done in 20 minutes. Yeah, then what?

So is it bad for him or is it bad for you?

It was bad for me because now he’s just, he’s just gonna wait right, he’s gonna wait for the next instruction. So for him, I have to show him a three year plan of what I want him to do. And I can tell him that one three year plan, and he’s gonna work for the next three years. I just know that about him. I have other guys on my staff that I can say, I need you to do this today. And I do this tomorrow. And then here’s our three year plan. And it’s just it’s it’s just a muddied water of like, every day is like some problem or something, you know, or some win, some loss.

I brought donuts today, boss, exactly. Did you have a donut, I mean, those things are amazing. But but but, but everybody has

But, but, but, everybody has those mixes right. And you gotta be careful. I think most Yeah, whether you want them or not, some some are inherited, right? And I’ll tell you that if you don’t cut out the plan that fits for the person that works for you or you work for right if you can’t even translate that plan upwords, gotta go both ways.

And that’s super important right? Because I think that most people just by default want to hire people who they think are like them. Right? Sure. And in which is a bad fucking idea.

Yes. Yes and No,

You’ve got to get along with your people, there’s no doubt.

Right, and who are you gonna get along with? right if you’re an I, you’re gonna get along with with other I’s super easily.

If you’re a leader, you don’t, doesn’t get

But I don’t want a clown wagon to work in, right.

I would never hire me on my team. Never.

You know what’s so funny is whenever Geof and I started working together and he was like,

I don’t need me, I have me.

Go take this assessment.

Okay Sybil.

That’s true. Yeah, right. And so so I said I don’t need this assessment to work with you, right? Like I’m on board of selling and building a company like nobody else. And and Geof is like the most laid back guy on the planet and he goes, look, if you’re not going to take this assessment, we’re not working together. And I was like, Oh, shit. Okay, cool. Your money. I’ll go take it. So I took it. Okay. I’m back. And it was super validating. And the guy who ran the assessment on us was like, hey, on paper, John’s gonna have some unique struggles as a salesperson that you don’t know anything about. He’s talking to Geof because Geof is a very high I. And Geof was like, well, in the past, I’ve only ever hired people who were just like me. And so it was really fun when it was fun. But whenever it was bad, it was really bad because no one knew like how to just keep working, right? So he said, this one time I’m going to hire to offset my weaknesses. And we got along super great. Obviously, we had like some arguments and some things like this that happen, but because we had the disk knowledge and the other assessments that we had done, whenever he knew how to communicate with me. Like, you know, we decided that we were going to sell hosting right to people, and we were not…

Like white glove, like, welcome to Hill Residence.

No, like, sorry, like web site hosting. Right? Because it was a website agency, right? So we were going to sell website hosting. And as opposed to him coming to me and just being like, Hey, we’re gonna do hosting. Here it is. He was like, Hey, we’re gonna be hosting. Go figure it out, which I love as a C because I’m going to do all that research. And I’m going to do all that

You started from scratch, but you’re from the tech era. So not scratch, but so you, agree. That’s what I’m saying you had to sort of do the engineering to learn enough about that industry.

How much do we need to charge? What does it look, you know, all of these things right in like that, like when you give a C a thing that like, you don’t know, when you can imagine, like, Hey, I don’t know this, I need you to go figure it out, man. Like, I’m gonna love that.

But I challenge you because I’ve been in those arenas, right? I can be very high. But I can sneak over to your arena enough to say, what are the dynamics of this, right? What’s the process look like an attempt to figure it out, but not overstretch myself? Personally, because I can’t take it on well, but I need to understand it. And I need to understand the communication in that arena, so that I can adequately sell it, service it and get it to work for my client.

But so I agree with you, right. And I think that you do a really good job about knowing where you’re where you’re not strong, right? And finding people like trying to push them. So, go do those things, right? Like you lean on, Melissa, for the things that are not, that are not part of your wheelhouse, right? And that’s, and that’s awesome, right? But the thing is, is you’re good at you’re good at that delegation because you’ve done all this work. You understand, like, hey, this stuff is I’m good at this. I can do these things and everything else, but there’s other stuff, I don’t, it bogs me down, I need to give it to someone else. But the part where you fall down, right, just being honest, and speaking, very generally about about

because I’m very sensitive.

And I’m gonna, I’m gonna put you on the spot here a little bit. Okay. But I’ll give you a challenge right now. Because I think everybody out there listening needs to kind of hear the different scenarios that you might run through. And if you if you don’t do it, I’ll do it. That’s fine. But I’d love to hear any task right? Just call it task. How would you delegate these tasks down through DISC and be a really cool concept, man, love that. So like, if, if you had to tell me just say, Clint, I need you to do this task. How would you phrase that to me versus Al and Nan?

So I think the thing that is important to figure out is that it wouldn’t be the same task. Right?

To your point earlier, yeah. Because if I, if this is my team, right, and I’m, and I’m the CEO of this business, and the three of us are here. I’m not going to give you tasks that I’m going to do and I’m going to enjoy and everything else, right. I’m going to be like, okay, Al’s our biz dev guy, right? Go out and talk to everybody you possibly can. Go hand out 1000 cards and go get into conversations with people. You know, exactly. You know, you know, Clint is going to be my closer, right? Hey, Al has warmed him up. He’s, he’s, he’s qualified them a little bit. I need you to close the deal. Nan is my VP of happiness. Right? Once they’re on board as a client and they have paid like, like you’re my customer service rep. Right. You’re You’re there to keep them happy. Ask them questions. Figure everything else out. Great way to look at

That’s interesting.

Great way to look at this. I didn’t go that way. In my mind,

Then mentally for me, it’s like cool like, like, how do I figure out how to track all this? How do I figure out the KPIs of what Al’s doing right? So that way, he’s got weekly behavior so that way, he’s not flinging it against the wall and what kind of weekly behaviors do you have and what kind of weekly behaviors do you have? And then let’s put that all out there and some sort of tracking format so that way you guys know where the goalpost is, yeah.

Al needs to make this many meetings. I need to make this many closes, Al or Nan, I need to keep this many people on board.

And everything is framed around the things that we have control over right?

gin and tonics we were successful.

But the funny thing is, is what you did there is you took a sale and you divided up in a different

That was concise as hell, love it.

Because, you must be a C.

Because we hit on this a little bit in another episode that sometimes you got to sell through people, right? Yeah, he hooks them. I fry him. And she stores it away. Right

Or you have to service through certain people and teams because again, if the tip of the spear is the I, right, opening the door, right blazes rolling and get the hell out of the way long enough for the guy that’s the next part of the team.

The guy who was going to follow the process maybe right is kind of what this boils down to. Right? Because, you know, I firmly believe that, this sounds cocky and I don’t like bragging on myself. I think that I’m a pretty good salesperson. Right. I think that I think that I own this stuff fairly well. On top of that, I think that I’m a better coach than I am a doer.

Yeah, right. I will tell you, I think I think all all of us up here can do all those jobs. Now. Now,

Now. But but here’s the deal. You’re gonna hate Nan’s role.

Agreed. But if it makes money,

Exactly, but if the if the reward is great enough, right? Yeah. If it’s a new song, nuance of a conversation to make somebody feel good. This

This is where the knowledge part of this comes in, right? If this is my team, right? And I’m walking in here, first day of like a CEO, right? I buy a business and I’m walking in as the owner on the first day, right? I’m going to run every everyone through a DISC assessment, and I’m gonna be like, Hey, what do you want to do? What do you hate? Right? And let’s figure this kind of thing out. And then I’m going to start like assigning roles based upon like what you’re going to be naturally good at because

That’s exactly what I did. I have everybody’s DISC, above below me people we work with in different departments.

That’s the company you work with now?

Yeah so so let’s talk about this right because I think that this is super important you know, it might have been the last episode. Sorry guys, we batch some of these and I’ve been drinking. But your perceived perceived need to adjust in the workplace has a huge factor on like, how tired you are.

You’ll see that in that assessment and that is I’ve hired that way. Yeah, because if they’re perceived need comes towards me as the boss, that’s a good thing.

Oh man, I disagree.

Because not to fool me right? Because you know, okay, so I think I know where you’re going with this.

So So let me talk about me specifically, right. So before launching my company and in doing all this and all the networking, everything else on the weekends, I couldn’t wait to go out and be social and be around other people and everything else, right. I needed that thing in my life. Now that I do all this in the podcast, networking and all of this stuff, I’m not out there so often, on the weekends, I don’t want to talk to anybody. Which is very, very weird for like my family because they’re like, hey, what, what do you want to do? And I’m like, I’m just tired. I just want to, like, hang out with you guys. And like, this is awesome. And it’s such a departure, because I’ve got to be in the space that is not part of my natural skill set on the regular. So then what happens is I’m more tired, I’m more burned out. So if you’re forcing that C to be the I, yeah, of like, Hey, you got to get on stage, right? You got to do all this stuff. And everything else like this endless like so far of a stretch it you’re gonna, you’re gonna break that rubber band eventually.

And that’s one of the things I love about DISC, the with the if, I don’t know if you’ve ever really put DISC together the four quadrants we talked about a lot, right? And there’s task driven. And then there’s, you know, there’s just so many different things that go into DISC, but we all have kind of two sides, right? We all fit into something right. And so what I was thinking when you went through that team, right, what if he only had two of those people, but if he had a C and an I right. So but the thing is, it’s a hugely successful team, right, if you’ll slide.

If we can work together. Right, right. Figure out the communication between the two of us.

You say that reaction, but it would be the same if I said it was a C and a D, or C and an S, right? You’d be a little bit

It shifts a little bit, right. It does. Because because if I only have a C, right, if it just means you go data, right?

If you have a C and an S, right, if you have John and Nan on and that’s the team, the sales team that needs to go kill 30 million next year, she’s my biz dev person, but you’re exactly, and I’m the closer. You know why, because she can slide to an I easier naturally than you can and you can slide to a closer easier naturally than she can.

Well, I mean, I firmly believe because of we’ve had this conversation recently right? D’s and C’s are the best closers because they’re gonna follow that process right? You give them the blueprint and you give them the process and the questions to ask and it’s all gonna be okay.

I’m gonna side with him a little bit because it and I hate to this another deal but depends on your fucking customer. Right because if your customers is super I, we’re not we’re not in it all.

I disagree

I disagree with that point as well right because when I’m looking for a closer.

I kind of do now that I said that.

If I can get this guy cuz it’s all conversation I bring my boss in, which is you, right? But I’m like, close this guy down because all we do is chatter, chatter chatter, he’s gonna feel like he’s got to make a decision and you’re gonna be the strong arm that he knows what I brought. I brought my brother we know over here, you know, that’s what my brother Derek Exactly.

But I firmly believe that like like C’s and D’s are the best at like qualifying because that’s a process right? And I’m task driven, if you tell me that I have qualified people and it doesn’t matter if I make them happy or not. Man, I love it.

I’m doing it, I’m just probably not going track it.

So if I came in, I said, Hey, John, I’m not sure if this is good fit or not. But we’ve had some really engaging conversations. My next step is

Keep going. So my next step is how do we figure out if we make some money and Nan and I actually have these conversations, right? Then we bring Melissa in because we were like, does it even make sense that we would take them on as a client? Because now we have resources we have to spend so I see from the D side.

That’s a nugget in itself, Ladies and Gentlemen, does it even make sense that we take them on as a client. Oh god.

We do that all the time. You have to.

This is so important, right? Because that’s huge. When, Okay, so let’s talk about this right because a lot of guys and you talked about this right? You’re the guy in the truck, right? Because Because you killed it but you get frustrated and you go out on your own right and you see this with with like C style consultants, right? You’re really good at spreadsheets, analytics, you know, financials or whatever else and then you go out and become a fractional CFO right and and essentially, it’s the same thing you’re a guy in a truck, right and you’re and it’s just you and everything else, right? And you fall into the trap that that Al and I have talked about so much right? Like I mean, Al is helped me a ton with my business because he’s like, Look, don’t just create a job around yourself because that that’s not going to give you the freedom that you’re looking for. Right? You’re still trading time for money. And I’m like, Oh, my God broke my head. But this is what everybody does, right? And so then what happens is we’ve got to be able, at some point to like, take that next step and take that next leap. And that’s harder for some people than others. But to not do the day in and day out work when you’re just the guy in the truck. It is super easy to be like, ah, I can put in a couple more hours because it’s just my time. Yeah. Right. And I’ll give it away for free. Exactly. Because you know what, no big deal. No big but when you are using partners or white label providers, or contractoers

Or paying for that first employee? Absolutely, man, God. Yeah, it’s now it’s like, oh, my God, I paid in a loss. I paid you your salary. Yeah. And then we didn’t make money on the deal. Yeah.

The, in in the website design company. I count myself really, really lucky because neither Geof nor I were developers at all. So we had a development team, right. And so because of that, we had a cost for every hour that they did, we were going to, we were going to get billed. It’s like $40 an hour, right? So therefore, we knew that we had to market up to a certain amount for it to even make sense to cover costs and everything else like this. And it forced us to treat it like a business right when you’re the guy in the truck. And I don’t be and I don’t mean to be quite as like disparaging as it sounds is like, it’s super easy to just have like a hobby, right? Because you’re discounting your time and who really cares and everything else like this. The minute you start having to pay other people to do these things, you shift.

But the key take home here is you’re in the game, pay yourself think about it from the get go and even in sales. The guy wakes up, you’re paying yourself every day that you’re out on a commission job or anything that’s tied to a bonus attached to even a base. I mean, every minute is a value component to your individual time process is just like being in business for yourself. Don’t kid yourself. You are in business for yourself.

For I mean, that’s the nugget right there.

I get on I get on my primary engineer every day and if he listened to this he’ll he’ll agree with this. I get on him every day. When people come to your door you’re you you’re able to stamp drawings. That’s that’s not a normal thing, right that’s a big deal to be able to stamp shit that you get to build.

right you start to build something to build on right?

Yeah, there are there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of engineers out there. But right that’s a different ballgame. Great. And I tell him all the time people come in like, Hey, you know what if I do this, can I do that? He’s like, Oh, yeah, let me run that calculation. That shit cost money. Yeah, I know. It took 10 seconds. I don’t give a shit. Yeah, what does 10 seconds cost. Right? Exactly right, because it is a big deal and you should you should get paid for your services rendered. I’m just a huge believer in that if you do something you should get paid for it.

And that’s you personal time as well. Like when you wake up, put your feet on the ground and you’re not kissing your kids or saying goodbye to your wife. Maybe We’re on the clock and I make it count.

And I don’t mean to. And I don’t mean to beat him down. But he told me one time he’s like, that’s how we sell bigger jobs. That’s how we get these. Okay, I agree. And I and I said, there’s a process for that, right? Yeah, there is a process for that.

You got to categorize it, you understand what it’s costing you.

When you do four or five days out of your four days out of your five and that’s all you do. Now, it’s free consulting right.

Is there a problem with that?

Yeah, there’s a problem with free consulting.

You jut blew my fucking head up. Yeah, sorry.

Well, so, you know, I so I’m in this world because we had a website design agency and and I now work with a lot of agency owners around giving them process and CRM. And because of this, I get these, these targets for these people who want to teach you how to sell right, and they’re like, Hey, we’re gonna teach you how to become a consultant and make as much money as you want. And most of these people are telling these these people who invest in these programs, go do it for free for a month. Right, especially in marketing, right or like or like lead generation go do it free for a month and then after that month they’re gonna love you so much. They’re gonna pay you whatever you want. And that’s just outright bullshit.

Where’s this?

It’s all over Facebook man it is. It is like every third ad I see. Right? Because Because I’m in this world, right, I get it.

I get bombarded with other stuff. But yeah,

and so and so what happens is like I see

Teslas and jet airplanes.

Wow, I need to be on your team.

I just click on it

All I get is like courses selling stuff and like, and like agency stuff. And these guys are like setting these people up for blatant failure. Right? Which bothers me.

In your opionion, or do you know that they actually fail? Or is your opinion that that’s not

If I, hold on hold on.

When you start with Al, I’m being scolded like hey dumbass. Seriously, Mother?

Because let’s talk about it. If you’re Clint and you’re coached in this idea around this idea that go do it free for a month and then have a conversation about getting paid. Al, or I’m sorry, Clint is going to be okay having that conversation because Clint is Clint, right. He’s a D, right. And I’m going to be somewhat okay. Not as okay as Clint is, you’re going to have a huge struggle with that as an I.

With what part I’m sorry.

You’re gonna do free work for 30 days, right? You’re gonna produce for someone

Done that so many times in my life.

and then you’re going to show up after that and then be like, oh, now you got to pay me.

I’ve done a lot of that too.

It’s problematic.

Yeah, you know, I

So why so, So why would anyone value your time and your efforts if you don’t?

Because we’re givers you were like, okay, I’ve literally done exactly what you just described, I’ll own it. Right. Agreed and and over time, yeah, I’ve learned to work but I’ve said literally, let me show you what I can do. Yeah. But I delivered and I have been paid.

I was gonna say there is a there is a tactic to that because it does work. I think you’ve probably proven that model better than any of us that that can work.

I think I’ve done that more times and you know, you know, it’s like the guy who worked with Edison right? And Tesla, Tesla got pissed off and he ran away. But to me, you see a good idea. Yeah, you know, from my scope, you know, where I sit, I’m like, I’d like to not only buy in, but I’ll give you this much of my time, which is more valuable than anything. And then we have a decision to make at a certain point. And I can walk away.

So why would you do it for free?

Hold on? Hold on, hold on,

hold on, hold on. I do want to hear your point. But here’s the deal. If you’re really good at what you do, and you can deliver, why would you do it for anybody for free?

Because I can

because there’s doubters and you can.

And I’ve got it, I’ve always lived according to the fact that I didn’t need all the money that you think you have to pay.

I think it mainly it’s not for free because you will be successful.

I was gonna say that that was my point.

Cuz you have a mousetrap that I don’t know? Right? And I really want to see it sometime. I want to see here’s the deal and I really want to look at your mousetrap. I do.

It’s not true, it’s doing it for free if you aren’t gonna be successful.

Now it’s my mouse try.

So there’s a huge difference here of free consulting forever and ever and ever and ever and never getting paid versus proving concept. Example, we were all just in a hallway earlier with a, what do you call the

Wow, it’s amazing guys.


So what’s the thing though? What are you VR? Right VR?

Sorry? She’s virtual reality yet no, I’m catching up.

So if you didn’t have the proof of concept would you spend $500 and buy one? You see where I’m going with that though?

Okay but here’s the difference between those two things, right? If How do I want to say this?

I love stumping this guy.

Yeah you do love stumping me. Because because here’s the deal, there’s a difference between actually delivering something and showing something because here’s the deal. I don’t get to leave with the Oculus. Agreed. Right I had to make a decision that I have to go play

The Oculus delivered because we were you guys sat up there and I was like, wow. And then we all were okay. Let me take a peek.

In one minute, I said no effing way. Never buying it. Yeah. Now for 30 seconds, I said, I want 4 of em.

Your whole household’s running on it.

That’s the thing. So and like Doc and Nan’s business, I could see where, where that strategy may come to now, they can’t do it all the time. They’ll never make a dime in that. And that’s a that’s free consulting though. Right?

So for me as a C, the thing I think that I go back to…

It’s kind of contrary to what I said about my engineer a little bit. Yeah, and I totally get that. But my rant, my answer to that is that you’re coming to me to use my services because you don’t have one, right? You’re an engineering firm, but you’re going to use our guys you want this free consulting. And that’s where I have a little bit of heartburn, but if you’ve never seen it, this is the first time you’re doing business.

I think there’s a line though, right? Are you gonna Are you gonna Are you gonna

There’s always a line.

For sure

Hold on, are you gonna are you going to do everything you do in a commercial building for free for the first time to prove it to someone that you can do your job?

I’d probably do a small one.

How small is small?

Change a filter.


So you’re going to give up 10,000 and and obviously there’s a scale to this right? I mean 10,000, I’d never give away a $10000 project.

If a guy told me I got a $5 million project, I just don’t know yet. I hear what you’re saying I like it. I have a building over here that needs some filter replacements and I need some recharge on my you know, air conditioning systems do this. But here’s the here’s the difference right? Is the but here’s where these these waters get money driving. You do that without any agreements. And you do that without paperwork for sure. You’re an idiot. Exactly right. But if the next step but if I do that, if I get you to agree, especially on paper, that if I do this for You give us a shot at that I’m doing that shit all day long.

Or the guy gives you an open door policy to come back and talk to him anytime, right? I mean I’m telling you now that’s a brother in law kind of saying I’m

I’m looking at his reaction, not yours.

You disag- Okay. All right high tech.

You know why? Yeah. Because Because the dollar value on what you sell is very different on what I sell scalable wise

And the way you get to it and scalable.

I would agree with that. For sure.

I hear you giving free advice all the time.

You help people all the damn time, Mr. Tightass over there

I mean, I just don’t…

So I um, there’s a difference. What do you mean consulting?

So what it is you point people in the right direction, which is sort of what is going on here. Ah, okay. He comes back. Did you have influence here consultant, right.

So I think there’s a big difference between, hey, look, I don’t do that. But here’s the information I know. Go figure it out. Right and building some trust and rapport. And then but I’m Never going to sit down with someone and be like, Okay, cool. Here’s how I customize a pipeline and do that for someone for free. But if someone comes up and they’re like, hey, I want to run Facebook ads cool, I don’t do that. I don’t lose any business by…

Even in the same gesture you say you give three examples of what a CMR would be right? You let them sort of you give them enough rope to sort of hang themselves right. That’s what you’re sort of doing this project took that’s different though than saying you I say you say that. Why do you think they put facades up in people drive by right? Take a look at what this could be?

Me okay. I think it’s to Clint’s point I think it’s just a scale I think you’re just doing it seems…

A small thing, and sometimes it’s buying somebody a drink, right? Think about it from the standpoint of I just spent, I bought a big meal right? Instead, I’m but here’s the deal. I’m not doing $20 million worth of business. So spending 10,000 to get 20 million. I’m not getting 20 million off of big time, right?

And that’s where the scale of things come because I’m about, right, I’m about to buy a list of people who were, who were using different CRM platforms that I work with, right. And so I know this is going to be a fairly targeted list, and I’m going to call these people, right. And I’m okay making that investment. The thing that I’m going to do is I’ll cold call these people be like, Hey, you know, what we found is that typically, people are not using the full CRM, or there’s ways to make it easier. Is that worth the conversation? Right? So I’m investing in money to get the list, but I’m not going to like give them free consulting so that way, they can figure it out and build it on their own.

How many people build it on their own after you guys do a little spec job for em, whatever.

For sure. Right? But there’s,

That’s the only point we’re trying to make.

But there’s a barrier to entry between what I do verus, but they can’t. Exactly right.

They have to hire somebody else.

I firmly believe.

How many times they do not, do they just not ever do business with you.

I mean, it happens, but it’s a small, small percentage.

I can’t tell you how many deals I’ve had where they’re like, well, I don’t need you. I can just figure it out on my own right? And I’m like, Okay,

Let me get it. Let me give you an example of another way to do this, and a legitimate way to build business by doing exactly what we’re talking about. You take it and you say, I’ll do this one for you. But I’m going to put that in the next project. I’ve done that 100 times. I’ll do this $10,000 job. You give me the 4 million I’m gonna put the $10,000 in there, just gonna happen. Yeah, I’m gonna pay for my guys. But that $10,000 ones if you give me the approval.

Right? Absolutely. And is saying, Look, I’m going to show you what I got to recoup so that we always stay even, you feel good about it.

Maybe I’m just a jaded, skeptical asshole. It makes me uncomfortable.

For example, I run this scenario all the time.

Putting super unleaded in your car sometimes does the same thing. does it really work that way?

I have a standard sentence in my proposal on on on this scenario all the time. We will provide upfront engineering for you, we will design build this entire job. It will cost you $120,000 to do the engineering. That’s very competitive with any engineering firm out there right? If you use us to build this job the full build out and we get to do all the mechanical work, you won’t see that $120,000 it’ll because it’ll be in the big project right? And if you decide to take our drawings and use somebody else to build it, you owe me 120 grand. Yeah, no money up front. I did the work right didn’t cost you a dime up front. It will cost you in the big project that

You can transfer it over to that other project if you decide to do it because that’s what they will do on the bank loan and the whole nine yards. Take these points. Thanks for drawing em up.

Get that little threat out there.

You know this the way it works? It’s a win win. You gave some they didn’t feel threatened by this right proposition. They don’t ever back because we don’t ever go well. What are you talking about.

One of the biggest hardest topics that we’ll ever talk about with across all personalities is Money. Yeah. And right and people get scared. Especially I can only imagine John in your business, a CRM business, hey, I’ve got all this great solution, it’ll cost you, let’s just say 1800 bucks a month to do this. And then people are like, Fuck, yeah, I don’t have 1800 bucks. You know, so that upfront money can scare so many people away and you got to be careful about how you word that.

Oh, and in particularly, but for sure. No I and one of the things that like honestly drives me nuts about my business is that I don’t have enough like ongoing plays, right? Like like once I do a CRM build out and stuff like this, I might get called in six months to do like a deep dive into that data and try to, and it and try to find some nuggets so that the sales team can perform better. But you know, with like the website and the hosting and even with like marketing, right, like you’re getting paid every month because they need that that consistent work. Right? And I like that idea of like, once I sell it once and as long as I manage a relationship Well, it’s good. So maybe my walls are maybe a little too up because because I’m in somewhat of a transactional business. You’re Yeah. Right. And so because of that, like, I don’t want to, I’m always very concerned about giving something away for free.

And sometimes your cale is a one sale. Exactly. Where as my business? I’m to get one sale to get 12 sales. Yeah, that’s a very different business model. So I agree with your hesitation.

So I agree with your hesitation. But they both, they both speak to qualifying your prospect, right? For sure. Because if your guy is if he’s losing money, he’s about to go bankrupt. Do you want to really do a job for him? Right? Did you qualify correctly? Are they expanding? Same with you? Did I qualify correctly? This is going to be an ongoing scenario for sure. Right? Did they have the potential? Did I really do my homework or did I get happy when they said, We want to do this, but I didn’t pull the curtain back and decide, Wow, man, this is a cool business to be attached to

If someone comes in and they want to hire me to like build up their CRM and give them a documented process and work with their sales team and stuff like this. And then They’re going to do like the ongoing like a CRM accountability, which means that we have a call each week and stuff like this, then I’m willing to, you know, give a bit of a discount on my like normal rate and project rate and stuff like this because I’m going to make it up on the back end. But I think that there’s a big difference between the fact of like a transactional sale versus relationship sale so we’re getting the wave here are we doing are we doing a throwdown?

Yeah, let’s do a Throwdown.

On leadership.

On leadership, I know we kind of got off on the tangent there has a some really good points but as a D from from my point of view on leadership and and and what DISC is and and getting to know your team and your personalities. One, you naturally have a lot of leadership traits in your tool chest as a D. And I think that one of the things that you’re probably missing is that sympathy sign that basically empathy right for other personalities, right? But I’m going to tell you, you’re not going to get everything done without other people to help you get stuff done. Right. So if you’re a D, and you’re in a leadership role, you probably don’t want to fill it with a team full of D’s, right? Because you’re going to fire everybody the first day, or they’re going to kick you out, right? As this is going to happen. So be really aware of what you need, what your needs are, and who fills that role and who does it the best.

Awesome. Al?

So as an I, when you’re talking about teams and leadership, don’t try to be everybody’s friend, that’s gonna be your natural compulsion to solve their ills. But be upfront and direct with your conversations and let them know when you know you’re not happy with somebody on your team or you’re unhappy about a situation in your sales force. And learn to manage the tendency to take a backseat. Be polite, get out of the way.

Awesome, Nannette?

I just think it’s really important to surround yourself with people that push you to do better. That you know, stay away from negative people, haters, if you’re around people that are negative and just hating and all kinds of things, you influence them, you know, you’re going to be influenced by people, find people that are going to make you better, but also influence the, just the weaker person basically.

Awesome. Alright, so as a C, if you’re, if you’re a leader, as a C, the thing that I’m going to tell you is you need to learn how to nurture because it’s not in your toolbox, right? We’re very task driven, very critical, and everything else and you can’t, you can’t coach an I, you can’t manage an I, and just be that critical parent mode all the time, it’s not going to go very well. And on the flip side of that, if you’re a C and you’re working for someone who’s not a C, and they’re, and they’re your leader, right, your manager, boss or whatever you want to call it, be aware of, you know, you’re going to have a lot of questions and they might not have answers to it. And you need to kind of wade very carefully through that minefield. Right? Because it’s super easy as a C to get labeled as you’re not a team player, right? Because you’ve asked too many questions. So on both sides of that coin, right, ask your questions well, nurture your people well, you know, when you’re coaching them. So that’s really all I gotta say on that point. good points. Awesome. Alright. So if you know someone in sales, and they’re not listening to this, and you think that they should be please share this with them. If you’re watching us on YouTube, thank you very much. That’s awesome. And if you don’t know where you are, and you’re not really sure that one of the free assessments is going to give you the clarity of insight that we’re talking about up here, send us an email assessment@salesthrowdown.com and we can get you hooked up and that way you can take one and get there and get the real deal.

Cool. Awesome. Night, guys. Thanks, y’all.

Thanks, everybody.