Episode 45: Adapting After Hearing No in Sales

Episode 45


Let’s get ready to Throwdown.

All right, everybody. Welcome to the show.

It’s my cat eye glasses here.

Sales Sales Throwdown we’re doing live at lunch. So if you’re watching on Facebook, thank you. If you’re watching this later, thanks for tuning in. Clint is not here today, but we’re gonna keep going anyway. And we were kind of talking about topics and things to talk about. And I thought we’d talk about mindset around prospecting.

I’m working on special effects.

Yes, Al is working on next level…

Outside you can see out of my ear now out the window or, okay.

If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to sell to an AI that’s it right there. Like, that’s it right there, so.

Just bring one just bring them a toy man. They’ll Yeah, there’ll be like, wow, yeah, that’s great. But you leave this Yeah, where do I sign?

I’m constantly going focus

And that Is my promotional products are, what they are, right? Because you can give somebody something, you know, I’ve not had a whole lot of success with that kind of thing. But, you know, there’s a whole industry around it. So other people do.

We’re actually about to start a mailer with the clinics and Okay, we’ve, we’ve tossed around some ideas and you know, what, how gimmicky Do you get in healthcare? I mean, we try not to, and you can’t, you know, you can’t over promise and under deliver because a lot of times when they come in, you don’t know what the condition really requires. Right? You know, and, and so you start throwing, you know, introductory offers, and I’ve always been against that kind of stuff. But we do want some exposure and looking at it for like a postcard that we would send out so anybody’s got any comments about having either some success, we’ve had some success in the past. I just said, you know, with this whole, you know, internet and social media and stuff. Like that people have gotten away from sending it to the house or the or the home. But we’re even thinking about doing business to business that way. Because, you know, people kind of looking at the mail a little bit more these days in, you know, it’s kind of locked in so

I think I think whatever it takes to gain attention, right, cuz that’s still marketing, right? Like, like, that’s not selling, you know, because that’s not the actual conversation part of it. So, you know, marketing is all about generating interest and wonder so that way people were like, Hey, I might need that. Let’s have a conversation about it. Right. You know, with us being mostly salespeople, right. It’s it’s a little, oh there’s ol Clint Bigelow, let’s get all Clint Bigelow in here. or promote. Clint is joining us everybody.

Happy Days.

So yeah, you know, until the conversation starts, its marketing. Right.

There he is look at ’em. Hey, man. Welcome, buddy.

What’s happening, what’re you guys doing here?

You know, just putting on a little show.

Waiting on you, man.

So still doing this, huh? That’s awesome.

It didn’t go down in flames last week when you weren’t here.

Oh, I figured it would.

You gotta change that angle here.

I Well, I’m slammed here. I’m trying to make up for lost time. Okay, I’ll shut my video off for a second, get set up. Okay,

Cool, um, bear with me. But yeah, you know, when you’re when you’re marketing like, like, that’s, that’s generating interest and attention so that way they can have the sales conversation with you. So

I agree and that, again, we want to put it’s like a little bit of bait on a hook, you know, we want something of interest, initiate their interaction with the clinic and then from there, we can take it I mean, we, I’m telling you, my providers are all about service, my staff so I mean, we really can come in with you know, some answers to some Some healthcare problems. It’ just getting them to pick us instead of the clinic down the road or a if your provider isn’t available, you know, you know, give us a shout where you can walk in, we’ll see you today kind of scenario. So, you know, if we can create a sense of urgency or people have a sense of urgency, we want to address that. And let them know that you know, we’re not a doc in the box, per se, but we definitely want to expedite their care. We’ll see. I’ll keep you guys posted on how well it goes or doesn’t go. Go ahead. Oh, I was just bringing Clint up to speed. We’re about to do a mailer. Kind of old fashioned marketing with a little postcard. You’re going to drop it in one of our clinics, one zip code has about 15,000. So we’re going to push those out the door. And I was just telling John, you know, I was curious if if anybody even did that kind of marketing any longer. And whether, you know, they they could have any point of view like hey, we did it didn’t work or Hey, we We did. I’ve done it in the past, but it was probably eight years ago. And we had some success with it. So we’re going to go back that route one more time.

Yeah. We’ll check the comments

I know I know as far as like realtors go, I see that most common realtor thing. And I have only ever used a realtor that I’ve gotten a mailer from because I just happened to have their information there.

cool, you know what I’m sure

and dentists, you know, like I see it in dentists and stuff like that.

And that’s that’s what sparked it, you know, we saw some some some of those and I’m like, let’s get back on this. And one of the things is I view it kind of like an oil coupon. So we’re going to consistently do this for probably the next through the end of the year. Because as we go through the different seasons, we can send a different version of the same flyer. And the way I kind of I’ve always approached it is you know, you start needing an oil change and remember somebody was running a special when you start looking for that color coded. Oh, I know it was yellow. So again, I think colors matter, you know, obviously red and yellow are the two in black are the most visible, like as you drive by sign or you see something on your desk, and then likes it and then just having some verbiage that it creates a little bit of attention or, hey, you know, don’t forget us kind of scenario. We’ll see, I’ll keep you guys posted.

So let’s catch up with with Clint what’s going on in your world buddy in your pipeline. How’s it going? You were crushing it two weeks ago? Still crushing? Yeah. Most non committal Yeah. I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

I mean, you know what’s crushing it? But it’s that’s the that’s the key question. Right? Well, are you on pace? No. COVID pace. Yeah. You gotta, you got to readjust your numbers, right? That’s true. You’re always gonna make it look good. No, I will say some different opportunities that would have never sparked had this all not happened or happening, you know, because it forced you to go out of your environment. Some of those are coming to fruition right now. So that is a huge for me. In my, in my group.

So when you say when you say huge define huge for me. I mean,

it’s almost so it’s not money, right? It’s it’s the, it’s the other thought of changing industry vertical market stoked that you you want to do when you know, the rest of you know the successful portions of the year but you can’t because you’re so busy on focusing on what you have, and you can’t. It’s really hard to tell your leadership that you’re branching out when something is working, right. So it’s really hard to convince people to do that. So everything’s failing. So why not try something different while it’s failing? And if it fails? What’d you lose?

Exactly, yeah, you had the time on your hands to get to it. So yeah, that makes sense. Okay, good. So, yeah, so

So to me, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s winning big.

And that kind of prompted what we’re doing Go back old school because so many doors are closed, right? Sure. I mean, it’s so hard to and then our market is anybody walking down the street that’s got a pair of legs and lungs. Right? You know, I will tell you that we are in one of the things that I’ve been kind of hesitant to, to put out there is, man, we’re seeing a lot of stressed out people. And so we’re writing lots of prescriptions to calm people down. And, and we’ll keep taking them through the door, man, we completely understand how stressful all this has been on people. And and so so yeah, the COVID has produced a different class a patient for us, if you will, that probably wouldn’t have been there in the numbers that we’re seeing had COVID not shown up.

I agree. So yeah.

So we’re kind of spitballing some topics and talking about some things before before you got here, Clint. You know, one of the things that I think we we should talk about is mindset about how you deal with rejection, right? Especially when you’re in networking and trying to lead generate and trying to network and do all these things. Because, you know, the more volume you do, the more the more you’re gonna put yourself in positions to where you’re going to get told no. Right. So, like, I had two people today that I reached out to on different social media platforms, no pitch, just like a connection. Okay, what are you going to sell me? Maybe nothing. All right. And then they’re like, you know, going into like defensive mode, right? And getting kind of kind of agitated and irritated. And I’m just kind of like, hey, look, if it’s a No, that’s okay. We don’t have to talk about anything. Just figured there might be some value in being connected eventually. Right? If you don’t want to hop on a call now. No problem. I didn’t even ask. Yeah. So the the thing that I’m thinking about today very specifically, is I could take that and get really mad about it right about these people who are who have their walls up. So then that gets my walls up, and then we get to that jaded salesperson, you know, screw that guy, you know, screw that person and stuff, which is not helpful right? On the other end of it, right. And you can be really Like shut down, right? You’re carrying that weight of the no of the, of the ruffled feathers with you all day and stuff like that and go hide in your hole. But you know, that’s not super helpful either. So you got to pick the middle route. And I’m curious for you Clint, right? Because I look, I look towards that D side of the spectrum with with awe right, because you just don’t care at all. So how do you? How do you do that stuff? Well, like like, how do you handle rejection well, and not turn it into like a pissing match.

First of all, I don’t handle it all that well, to be honest with you, because I because I view it as a fight. Right? It’s instant fight versus someone with a little more compassion feels for the other side. I don’t have that. So it’s not so easy for me. Because now once you control that, and you realize that that’s what you’re doing. I think that’s a big difference, right? That you you realize it’s just business. And if you view it how you would would do it to somebody else, and you keep it in that business spectrum. It’s okay. One thing that I would say is, and I hear this constantly, we’ll see it more Less on LinkedIn as this you know, and John, you even speak to this a lot, go fail, go, you know, go out there and get rejected because the more no’s you get, the more chances you’re eventually going to get to yes. Right. And that is a theory I would say, because I just happen to read a post on LinkedIn today is, you know, there is a time and a place to go get rejected, to get your reps in and to not worry about it not be embarrassed. But eventually, you know, you got to use it as a filter to get it down to possible wins. And then you got to change your mentality to go win. Right? So you can’t go out there with this okay thought process of it’s okay to be rejected. And it’s okay to get the no. Right. The you know, the quote unquote, no. Eventually you got to turn that into a yes. Right. So use it as a filter, and then then shift to the wind mentality. I believe in that strongly. I don’t think you can stay on one side or the other all the time.

Here’s Clint on a sales call. What’d you say?

Yeah, yeah. Maybe

So for Nan,

Fear is a motivator.

Getting us back on track. So as someone who’s incredibly people oriented, like how do you deal with that rejection? I mean, does it bother you? Does it get under your feathers? Are you just kind of like, I still love you anyway. So essentially, you’re how do you how do you deal with that?

Here’s Nan, hug? hearts and minds.

The thing is, is you can’t control it other’s emotions. I mean, they are going to react, however there they feel like they need to, but that doesn’t mean you need to react because of the way their emotions are going. You know, if they’re going south, my gosh, you know, I’m just like, I’m gonna listen to you. I’m going to be calm. And I’m going to think what is the best reaction for them for me? I’m not you know, I’m not going to get mad. I’m not going to go sideways. I think a lot of times, the reason people get angry or act crazy or get depressed or just a negative emotion is they they’ve taken it too far. They’re not really looking at the big picture what’s really going on, you know, and in sales whenever you’re trying to talk to someone about a new product, or, or a current product that they’re using, and they’re going haywire. And believe me, that happens a lot. I you know, I think if you’re an I, you’re just escalated all the time. You know, look at look at it, look at our I in the group, just the different you know, these, it’s like, last night,

don’t go there.

And if you’re a D, you’re just like, just I think you get easily frustrated, you know, so And I’m not saying that to be mean Clint, because, I mean, I think you’re fantastic, but I just think like, I care don’t don’t try To control someone’s emotions and check your emotions, you know, I think a lot of times you’re just going to be unsuccessful if you can’t check your emotions because you’re either going to go crazy, acting crazy or get completely mad at someone and it’s just, it’s to no avail. It’s not gonna so i think is the key ingredient there. I mean,

You bring up a good point because emotionally driven decision making is bad in any scenario, what side of the fence you’re on happy, sad, love hate, you know, it’s they’re all they’re all bad, right? It’s, it’s something that especially in construction, you’re dealing with a lot of alpha male type personalities and, and it’s just, you got to take the emotion out of it all the time, right? Whether it’s, I’m having a really good day, so I’m a who cares let’s make this decision or versus we’re never making that decision because I hate you. Right. And they’re both bad. In my opinion.

They’re not long term. Because you know what, that immediate Oh, yeah, we’re gonna do it or No, I don’t want to do it. nobody’s really thought through the equation and they’re you’re not, you’re not gonna move on to bigger project?

Yeah, well, okay, so then I guess the question comes up. Do you do you think the environments changed? And if it has, Yeah, I agree with Clint, you know, you’re, and to John’s point, you’re gonna, you’re gonna find people somewhat distracted, and probably more no’s are going to become or come from that. So how hard Do you press somebody about calling it over at this point, when every day tends to be a new day for every industry out there, right. And I mean, do you guys see people getting better or getting worse or staying the same in their approach to a sales call? I mean, the client or the prospect.

People are under pressure and I think a lot of people feel under pressure right now. This is not the time to push someone I don’t I don’t believe because they are feeling a little angst right now. I think I think right now is a good time to just listen, step back a little bit. Now there comes a time where you’ve got to push people because sometimes people just get stuck in their negative negativity or their oh things aren’t going to get better. You know, there’s no way that’s not true. I mean, everything always turns around, it’s gonna be fine. You know, so I do think resting just like, again, I think listening is a really valuable tool right now.

Yeah. There’s also you know, definition of what your know is right getting, what does it mean for you to get a no because to me silence after we’ve had some good conversation, silence is a definite no for me, right? And I wipe it off the map, so I make the decision for you to just get rid of it. Right? Do you need to take a bad relationship and worsen it by chasing them and just just to get the word, two letters put together. Okay. There But there’s a theory there. Right?

So So my question for you there is Clint, like, how do you differentiate between someone who has gone silent because it’s a no and someone who’s gone silent because they’re, they’re busy with with other stuff? And like there’s actual value in the conversation? How do you? How do you determine that?

Well, and you know me well enough, Tom, personally, that it is, if you need me, I’m here, right? I’ve given you all the information I can give you to make this decision. And if you’re unable to make the decision, one because maybe you’re not the decision maker, you got to push it to a board. This is going to be a three month waiting list. Like, I keep you on the pipeline for a while. But if you can’t even tell me that this is still moving forward. You’re it’s just it’s over. Right? So that’s, that’s just in my world. That’s a no to me. Like, you’re just it’s over, right? So you get people to drag on these pipelines for for 6, 7, 8 months, and they get these, you know, well, you know, they told me the other day, they’re still thinking about it. So that’s a yes, that’s a bad mentality to be in.

So I have a question though, right? Because if if the whole point is to get a binary decision right out of out of the prospect, either yes or no. Like, some people are just they’re not action takers by default. Right? So how do you, how do you square yourself with that idea of this kind of person just isn’t going to take action right now, there, there’s gonna be some value here, but they’re just dragging for some way, shape or form. Do you push back on those kinds of things?

Yeah, to a certain degree, I do everything that I can do in the situation. Sure. And as long as I do that, as long as I go above and beyond, you know, the call of duty and get and get to where I’m comfortable with walking away that whether it’s a yes or no, that’s, that’s a win for me. Right? versus pounding somebody to the pavement so hard that they forced them to say no, which we do a lot in sales, right? Because that’s what we’ve been taught and the new age sales is to go make sure you get to know if it’s an It’s still a win because now we have metrics right? We have we have stuff to make major off of, in my opinion that that works to a certain degree. What you don’t want to do is destroy, further destroy a relationship by pounding somebody’s head off the curb to get the no. That doesn’t make any sense to me. No, walk away. Keep your head held high knowing you did everything you did, you could do and be done with it. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

So Clint, I feel like I’m getting into a lot of decision maker DMs with people who are who are D’s, right? And these people, I feel like have their walls up and they’re very assertive, like, Hey, what do you got for me? What do you got for me? Right? Are you trying to sell me something? Right, which to me comes across as like a very D thing. Like I can see you having not that much patience.

So I have that same conversation every day.

So when I think about that, my my normal go to is to, you know, hey, I’m not sure. Right? Like maybe nothing, you know, um, but it’s, I know, right? So like, I’m trying to figure out do I challenge in some way, shape or form, do I like how do I do that? Well with a D and not just completely blow it up just for the sake of blowing up.

Well, first of all, have you done your homework to know that you add value? Do you know that they need you? I know before you so you’re to me, you’re fishing in the wrong pond already.

Okay, so hold on so so all my clients these days are coaches, consultants and an agency owners right so my reach outs are all to coaches, consultants and and agency owners, right to help them document their sales process, get the tech installed, and then dial it in, so that way they can scale it and give it to someone else. And the so I’m reaching out to only people in that network, right? But this one guy was like, you’re either trying to buy something from me or you’re trying to sell me something. He was just getting, like really defensive and really triggered. And I which is true, but it’s true. It is true, but not right now. Like you know, like I’m totally fine being connected with someone and then you know, they’ll see my posts and my content and my stuff. And then eventually they’re going to reach out to me. So like I’m really just trying to grow my network and honestly provide some value about the stuff that I hear about and see so

Can you not just tell them what you just told us?

I do, right, you can’t Yeah, it comes off without any tone as just being this like canned ass line that everybody says whenever there’s like a deflection,

but it wasn’t didn’t sound canned ass to me.

Because tone, right? These are not verbalized conversations. So without tone, I have to find a way to like communicate the stuff in a way that is actually impactful and stops that pattern of Okay, I don’t want to talk to this guy, you know, kind of deal and I don’t know how to do that very well against the D.

Well, you gotta, and I was I was about to say the word ego stroke the ego a little bit but after our podcast on ego, I’m so confused on what that means to this day that I wouldn’t even use it.

That’s a win for me.

It was it really threw me off. So, um, you know, there is a thing with a D where you have to let him be the expert and make sure that he’s in the driver’s seat to be an expert. So asking questions like, what do you guys use? Why did you Why did you make that decision to use that process? You know, those things get the conversation rolling a little bit easier than coming off as a salesperson with that monotone. Same speech that he’s hearing from everybody, because it because let me tell you, as at this point, what we’re talking about everybody’s trying, right, this isn’t news anymore. You know, this, this, you know, the ABCs you know, always be closing mentality. I think 20 years ago was still making a shift 10 years ago, still making a shift, but now it’s pretty commonplace. So So even though we say new sales tactics, they’re pretty commonplace in my opinion, because I hear from everybody. They may be wrong, the way They do it. They don’t have all the pieces put together, but it’s still a very common tone of speech. So, John, I, I’d say, for anybody listening out there, I think that, you know, you gotta you got one, you just got to get the ball rolling so that you can have that that candid conversation the way you just did with us. And the only way you do that is through conversation and you got to get the ball rolling somehow.

So I think that what I’m gonna start doing is I’m gonna start going with him. Right, like, yeah, you know, this guy was like, Man, you guys are all the same all these pitches, like instead of like putting up a fight or anything else like that, I’m just gonna go with him. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Right. I’m sure it’s really, really bothersome and everything else and that’s not my goal, right. Can kind of tell you what I do and you can let me know if that’s worth talking more.

I mean, that would definitely separate you because, you know, as a matter of fact, right now our company is trying to buy software that manage construction management software for our company, and You know, tied into that as estimating tools. It’s, there’s always a bolt on, right? There’s always Oh, well, if you if you use them, well, you should use ours, right? So it’s just constant of sales, right? And, but I sit through these, you know, conference calls or zoom meetings with, you know, different companies and it’s just always the same what it comes down to is affordability. When I call, do you answer, right, that’s huge for us. And it doesn’t have everything I need. Like that’s, that’s my, my three big things. The sales pitch, on the other hand is the same monotone. We have everything you need will take care of you. Don’t worry about us. We’re the best we’re the leading in the industry and, like goddang, how many how many leaders in the industry? You know what I mean? And so, so conversations like that, that break you apart where it says, Yeah, you’re right. You know, we do. I don’t know about what you’re using right now, but it sounds similar. To what I do, or I provide, and I don’t know how I can be different from them. I’m just reaching out to you to find out if I can, and then you put the ball back in their court. You know, let them tell you. And it may not go anywhere. Yeah, but they probably don’t need, but they probably don’t need you. If that happens.

Yeah. And, you know, I think that this is part of the misconception here of, you know, to the prospect, right, even people who are in business, I think that this is really, really interesting. They’re in business. They’re, they’re selling, they have clients, everything else like this. And they’re in their roles are still up whenever someone reaches out to them. Right? So then I’m like, man, if you’re this triggered by receiving, you know, some kind of pitch, like, how are you actually handling your sales conversations, right? Because I believe that the way you handle one side of the coin is has an impact on how you deal with the other side of the coin.

So if people can’t sell to you without you getting pissed off, like what’s really happening in your sales conversations. Absolutely. And I’m very much in that boat. I’m on as much you know. On the buying side as I am in the selling side and, you know, with these different programs estimating software’s and we, you know, vendors that sell sheet metal and ductwork and piping, you know, the list goes on of people that are trying to sell me and, and how I buy is greatly influenced by how I try to sell how I want to be perceived when I do. And I try to give as much as I can a fair shot to everybody coming through the door, but I will tell you that it takes it’s a short fuse for me that you may have the best product and this guy says he also has the best product. It’s a very, very small margin of how you treat me personally and professionally. That makes that decision for me. It just really does and how you respond to what we’re doing.

And we’ve talked about this in the past very specifically for you that once someone shows up and makes a bold claim with like this the best. You go into that mode of like No, I’ll find the best.

It’s a it’s a bold statement to make, right? It’s like saying I have the number one hamburger in Fort Worth. Okay, that’s like our that’s pretty relative term right? And everybody’s gonna have their own opinions. So be careful on making those bold statements, I would, I don’t know that I’ve ever as deep as I am, I’ve never made the statement, I’m the best contractor in the in the country or the state or the town, or even in the immediate area have never said that. Because I truly believe that as I drive around town and I see thousands and thousands of construction jobs going on, I would guess that there’s companies out there that can do exactly what I do as well as I do it. Or maybe even better, right? I live with that. Yeah, what I what I would like to do is have a good working personal relationship and they buy for me because of customer service quality, expertise, our prices within their budget, we finish on time, our safety records, you know, impeccable, like those are those are the differences.

But I think that where, and to your point, Clint, is as you build trust, with the client, right? Because at first, that’s really what most of us are looking for when we buy into something, because I know we do it with clinics, we have, you know, relationships with vendor groups. And what we’re looking for is trust, you know, can I trust you to do the best job you can. I know there’s snafus all through every equation, and every process can go off the rails. But can I trust that you’re going to call me and we’re going to figure out a plan to put it back where it needs to be. And and there’s the give and take in the process after the yes has been been thrown out there and you decide you’re going to do business. But as you decide to do business, that’s not the end of the story, the story can tend, that’s just the first chapter of how things get done and how the projects completed. And then, you know, the discussion of ongoing business after that, and we fired vendors. We do it pretty regularly because if you don’t muster up, because you know, we get the medical sales guys and we do this Same thing, hey, we got this, we’re on all these plans, we do this, we do that. And we get stuff kickback all the time that I’m like, Wait a second, you said you had, you know, over over promise and under deliver. And when that happens, that trust starts to get eroded because I give you 100 points. I don’t make you prove anything. It just came out of your mouth. I assume that’s the truth of the equation. And as it starts to chip away, you just received a D Now you’re on your way to an F report card this six weeks. Well, screw you. We’re not we’re not dealing with F, F companies. Right.

Totally agree with that. I, I face that a lot in the sense that, like when vendors come to me, and they want to tell me that they screw up, I don’t care about your screw up, right? I care about how we got out of the situation and our business partner. And I say partner pretty sternly because your customers also should think that way about you and they dumped you because of one mistake. We’re all allowed them, right? It happens it’s life. And if your customers dump you on that the real question in your head shouldn’t be, you know, oh, you know, what do I do now? It’s, should I even have been in bed with this person to begin with? That’s where my mind goes, right? And right. And I and I’m going to be honest with you, we can do a bit we can do business with a ton of different people out there. I think who you choose and who you partner with, makes you or breaks you. Great, cuz you choose?

Well, and like you said, they I think what happens is you earn your money when you solve problems, and those problems may be ones you created, but you own them, you address them, you you, you know, you enlightened the group that you’re working with, about how you’re going to fix them timeframes, and then you stick to a plan of getting that handled, whatever problem may come down the road.

Yeah, you know, I think we’re we’re diving off on the operation side of things a little bit here, but you know, This also can go to a sales conversation of when you do make a mistake when you, you know, you told them it was 10,000 bucks, and it’s actually costing 12. And you need to go get that 2000 bucks because it’s paying your payroll, right. That’s a mistake in sales and how you have that conversation with people, when he should have the conversation, right? Shouldn’t just eat it, there’s always a conversation to be had around business and, you know, owning, owning that mistake. And then and then having an after action report just like you would if there was a, you know, a car crash with, you know, you have an after action report of how did this happen? Why did this happen? What could I have done differently, right? Having that whether it’s an operations or sales is huge for your own mentality, but also for your customer to know that, you know, we’re going to do this different together next time. So I agree.

Nan What are your thoughts on this? You’re being awfully quiet over there.

I just think people are influenced, influenced by your actions. So I think it’s really important that you make you’re constantly checking, what are you doing? What are you listening again, listening? Are you making sure? I think ucation another thing right now, not being so concerned with the deal as much as keeping your line of communication open with your client. You know, I’m thinking, you know, be it a, a patient or a client. I think, you know, without you, that’s why I think these mailers are really good for him. I think what clients talking about with his clients, you know, I think it’s really important just keeping communication open.

So, sorry, Al, go ahead.

Well, what communication does it presents you with opportunities, because the more conversations you have with existing business, or people that are, you know, one step removed from what you’re currently doing, then opportunities start to knock on your door. That gets the juices flowing. Have wicked over and do this project or why don’t we working with that group? And then that group and there’s where your prospecting can really come into play in my business is, what are you guys doing? Well, who else do you guys work with? Is there a connection that we can make with that group? Or would you mind an introduction? I’d like to know those guys. And there’s where you, you end up and I think the word influencer is overused. But that’s what works for me, right, is that my name gets thrown around the block, hopefully in a real positive way for either having done business with me or me doing business with you, whether you’re on the sale or the buy side. And because they’re out in the same industry as healthcare, and you’re always chasing the money in your industry. Don’t ever forget that. And that’s how dynamics change like Clint said that they’re on different projects, they probably wouldn’t be on But there’s still a relationship to the old way they were doing things and the old people that they knew, right, Clint? Yep, absolutely. So So again, I mean, you’re gonna have to get creative, you’re gonna have to stay connected. And you’re gonna have to work through the edginess of the changes that we’re currently going through. Yeah.

Did you get, Clint, you said that you get pitched pretty regularly, did you get a good or bad pitchthis week or last week? Anything that sticks out?

I just I feel like let’s go to the last six years because the pitch is constantly the same with with these. With these. I’ll say management software type people. The pitch is constantly the same. Nobody else is doing this. We’re the first. Like, Look, man, you got to understand You got it. You got to know your your your crowd. Because me, I’ve done my research much like you would john where, you know, not as much as you, but I have done enough to have just an acknowledge that this conversation we’re about to have is, you know, I’m going to have an intelligent input to something. And what you’re saying that nobody else does, that person also does. And now you’re a liar. And you didn’t have to say it at all. You didn’t even have to say it. You just say we do this versus we do this the best, very different in my mind.

Well, and I think that that goes down to the idea that most people like sales training as just like product training product and, you know, features and benefits and here’s the things here your talking points and marketing is done this thing so go out and get it right. And then you’re just drinking that Kool Aid so hard, that you’re because it’s easier to pitch, right? It’s easier to show up and say, Okay, cool. Here’s what I do. We’ve been around for this long everything goes like this. What do you think? Right? Because you can do that. And then when they say no, thank you be like, well, I tried. Right? Well, I’m trying to say get the deal done, right? You know, you got to be able to go through that process and then figure out like, Okay, why didn’t it work? How can I adjust what needs to happen now so that way that doesn’t happen again. Because if you’re, if you’re constantly running up against like the same, like two or three things, like that’s just bad planning.

Yeah. And I and I constantly, you know, in my mind, when I, when I start talking to somebody about a new job, I have five questions in my head, and I want you to hit three out of the five for it to go forward, right, that’s just kind of my first filter. And if you don’t hit three out of those five, then I think we should probably just stop talking about it, because it’s not a real deal. Right. And those questions float and change every every time. But what those five questions come from is a pool of 20 questions that we’ve generated in sales training, right? But I’m not running through the list of every 20 every time with every customer because they’re not the same person. That’s not the same project. Absolutely. And, and so you got to I think you got to float a little bit. The other side of that, too, is if you stick to the book every single time, I don’t know that you’ll ever get when you win one, it’ll be perfect. It’ll be the best job he ever did. But those are going to be so few and far between. I don’t know that you’ll eat dinner tonight, you know what I mean? You’re not going to have food on the table. So I think you got to be careful about what once you set your limits to its guidelines. Its rules and guidelines that are great to follow, but you gotta adapt.

And, Clint, I think an important thing here is when these conversations are your sales process starts to break down. And they periodically do, that you know, you get this far with this client, you get a little bit further down the road, and you’re seeing these things fall apart. You got to bring that back internally and say what did I What could I have done differently? What you know, just like John was going through his pitch, and you know, maybe it’s tonality you know, and for a C, I could see where tonality is is is a tough sticking point. Right. I mean, you’re analytical. So trying to grab some emotion around numbers and, and then the process can be kind of kind of tough to say, Hey, this is really cool, when now it’s just do this, do this do this. Right. Yeah. Um, and so I so I think that we all, you know, as we kind of as the as the, as the economy starts to open back up, we’ve got to realize that, you know, our, our tone needs to be right. We need to be empathetic, if that’s necessary. We need to be strong when we need to be strong, and I’m putting emotions to things. Because sometimes when you say, you know, it’s $12,000 versus 10 $10,000. I mean, that’s gonna take a little bit of courage, right? And you’re gonna have to be tactful, and if that blows it up, the next time, you’ve got to figure out how that process doesn’t go south over $2,000 Right,

Right. Yeah. 100%

Because I’m working with a client right now. And we’re coming up with, with those questions, right, those questions to ask to get deeper deeper into the conversations and we were going through, and we’re grouping them based upon the target market, right? Because this guy, he does leads for real estate, realtors, agents and brokers. And so we went through a process of figuring out like, Hey, where are people going to be? So what what questions are gonna make the most sense? And so we went through a process and figured out, okay, his his clients are either going to have worked with someone who has generated leads for them in the past, there might be pain points around those things. But the pain points around people that have never used an agency or lead generation service are going to be completely different. So let’s make the panes relevant to the individual person. And so that’s where you start actually forming out, you know, your process and your flows and things like this. Because if your first question is like, you know, hey, Clint, I’m curious, you know, have you guys worked with an agency in the past? And they say, Yes, okay, cool. Like that should then alleviate all my questions that I normally ask someone who doesn’t have that experience, and there’s in the same thing also applies, you can’t ask the same questions that everybody and get the same outcome because everybody’s in a different spot. And that’s where the soft, the soft skill set comes in, right? How well can you pivot? How prepared are you?

Sure. And I think that’s, you know, kind of going back a few minutes like to that list of questions, right? How you, because they may already be pre qualified, one through seven, right? And you can skip to eight, because you asked, hey, where do you put your money? Well, I put it in the bank. Okay. So that mean, that tells me you got experience with a banker of some sort a teller, you know, you have some money, you know, saving experience, I don’t need to ask all the 15 questions to ruin this conversation right off the bat.

And that’s where, like, because like, I had this, I had this idea that the second question is more important than the first question anyway. Right. So, you know, if I, you know, using the banker deal, like, like, Hey, you know, how do you how do you, how do you manage your money now? Well, it’s in a bank. Okay, cool. How’s that working? How’s that working question is signal nificantly more important than like, where do you put your money? And how do you manage your money? But you got to ask that question in a way that gets engagement before you can ask the actual hard question.

Does the money work for you? No, it sits there. Okay? Do you want it to work for you? You know, like there’s, there’s so many. There’s so many ways to, to not go through your checklist and created on the fly. Because they’re allowing you to that you have to, you have to know the book so well, that you can change and deviate from it. As you have a conversation. You can’t go through it scripted, because that’s what most people do. And I’m telling you right now, I can spot it 1000 yards away. Yeah,

But but you can put an algorithm together that allows you to do a if it’s Yes, we go down this pathway, if we do know so don’t be afraid to line it out. Yeah, and

Doc, that is the book to me. Right like that. But the algorithm is the book and just there’s different formulas within there that you can get the same answer. And I think that I think if you don’t adapt and you’re just constantly monotone and you’re always only going for the no because the books that go for the no there was a mentality shift there and personalities play into how you do huge you know the algorithm into this whether, not just DISC but mood, right? How you feeling today? you’re pissed off because somebody cuts you off and you hop on a sales call that’s a whole different sales call them you know, you just listen to you know, James Taylor Fire and Rain and now all of a sudden you’re, you know, you’re in a good mood.

What a song choice like, would never have expected you to pick that song is the song that you listen to get pumped up to.

I am a I’m a hidden James Taylor fan.

Is anyone not? like like, anybody on the planet who’s like man, James Taylor sucks.

I think I think I think my dad was and and if he probably if I asked him that question, I’d be like, Oh, yeah, you know what, he actually had some good music. I just hated him because he was a hippie.

I actually saw James Taylor at the Bronco Bowl over in Dallas.

Bronco Bowl, man. Yeah. A long time ago.

Yeah, man. It was it. Yeah, it was dead cool, man. It was really a good show. Yeah, cool cat.

So, you know, the mood thing is super important, you know? And to that idea of right, the tonality and your pausing. You know, your confidence, right? All that comes across on a nonverbal level, right? And so when your social selling and DMing and doing all these things, like, you don’t get to control the tone, right? So that’s why the goal is to get to a call because if we’re on a call, you don’t get to inject your tone based upon your day anymore, right or not as much. I mean, you can take things offensively if you want to, but that’s a decision you make. So whereas like an in text, email, VM, you know, all of these things you have to deal with there and represent their interpretation of that tone right then and they’re not actually held hostage to the idea that they have to give you an answer right now. So they can go off and think about it and then come back and in a conversation you actually get to get into the gist of it right into like, what is like the flow of the conversation. So that’s why the the phone call or the conversations are so important, my opinion. Yeah.

To be honest with you, when when, when I saw emojis everywhere, like even in professional emails, I started seeing them come out. I hated it at first because it was just so unprofessional in my mind, because I was taught the other way that you don’t do that stuff. But now that we’re so text driven, and in this day and age with emails and texts and and different things, you know, on LinkedIn messages and stuff, that I actually appreciate a few images because I know where your head’s at, right? Yeah, a little smiley face or a little like, you know, crying laughing face or whatever. And to be honest with you, I don’t hate it anymore.

Yeah. All right. I hated it for a long time. Like and I fought it and you know, people were telling that me that if I put emojis in my, in my content on LinkedIn and Facebook and stuff like that it would perform better. And I was kind of like, Man, agh, No, I don’t want to do that. But it’s it’s a really nice way of injecting tone. Right and having control over the tone.

Well, John, just create your avatar and get going, man.

It’s already it’s already going. I just need to maybe add more, more emojis.

What you know, you hit on something, John, that I’d like to talk about because who are we listening to when people tell us that’s unprofessional? Don’t do that. You shouldn’t do that. I’m picking a pick who your pick who you’re listening to. Because if you truly look at what they they do, and they’re struggling sales guy, why would I listen to that guy? Exactly. Right now if he if he’s got an 87% hit ratio, and he’s just killing it in this market, and everybody knows who he is and everybody loves him. I’m probably gonna listen to what that guy has to say.

Right when the guy calls you and he says, Hey, I only got I only got a second because the jet’s about to take off, the private one, shit and he hangs up on you.

Yeah, listen to that guy. Listen, can you just send me the cliff notes? I don’t want to read the whole book.

Exactly. Let me follow you for a day. Sorry, I was I was gonna say if if you’re questioning I mean so because we’ve kind of probably brought up a lot of questions in people’s minds about whether they’re doing it right or whether they’re not, you know, one of those things is to reach out and find some mentorship, right? Somebody who is in your opinion doing it well in your industry, and make some connections there in the sense of I am struggling a little bit here or I’ve come across a lot of no’s I was doing so well beforehand. And you know, I day traded for a year and had about a 28% return on on, you know, trading. Went to a trading class. I spent a whole week and I came out of worse trader. I called some of my buddies, and they’re like, no, yes. Now, you know, kind of ran through some of the things that I was trying to do a little bit differently. And what what had happened was a lot of my mojo and my own intuition relative to those comments, but I reached out to some guys that were, you know, crushing it as well and doing well. So So yeah, if you if you’ve stepped in it, own it, man, reverse the clock, go call some of your partners, you know, that should be in the industry and let them give you the pep talk and the work through to get to the other side of a bad decision on your side of the fence.

You know, when you said you came out of worst trader, literally you just described most sales training. Yeah, well, okay.

Yeah, I completely get that too.

Yeah. Because you have to unlearn

right. It’s you lost yourself. Yeah, you became you became a robot.

Okay, here’s what happened to you. Because the We did this and Nan can attest to this. So what you got was some guy that had done okay and sales got tired of knocking on the doors then but had a decent record and then went and told you how he did. Right? Here’s your product and like I had one guy I don’t call doctors about I call them by their first name. Well, you know how much shit you can blow up calling a doctor John, when you walk through the door, like you own his world. He’s like, never ever let that jackass in my office again.


I said even if they don’t say to your face, exactly. And they’re still thinking it/

no, they tell their their front office person never to let you back again. Yeah, just saying Yeah.

Yeah. And that’s and that’s that’s another kind of like, nuanced area, right? Because like you got to upset the pattern, you know, you want to make sure that you’re not putting them on a pedestal above you and then having to like, you know, talk up to them and do all these things, you know, that we talked about in And nobody important, but like, you can go too far, right? So, indeed, you don’t know how far that line is until until you hit it. And then you say, oh, okay, a little too far. Let’s back off on that a little bit. Right. And then you, you dial it back in. But, you know, we saw Al and I would see this all the time in the martial arts school, right? You know, these people would come in, and they would have four or five years of training and another art, and they had to unlearn all of that stuff, right. So well, they could probably handle themselves, they can handle themselves like, like using this methodology in this style in this art, and that’s okay, because you’re new. But anytime you’re doing like a big change, you have to unlearn stuff, right? I mean, it’s kind of like when you when you go to the military, right? I mean, a boot camp is really all about upsetting your patterns and breaking you all the way down. So that way you can come out of it in the in the mold that they need you right. Sales is kind of the same way I think.

Well, and and so as you’re talking about that instantly in my head, you said military but I think shooting instruction, right? I was a shooting instructor and the Marine Corps and it’s like the guys that were from Kentucky that you know, oh, Like, oh these guys will kill it, you know, these guys are not the guys that are my top shots. The end of the day, it’s the guys that know absolutely nothing. Right, and they’re learning fresh. So to your point, you know, really telling a guy that’s 20 years old that has shot since he’s three years old and his grandpa taught his dad that taught him right this certain way, doesn’t mean it was right. Right, or perfect or better than good, right? They might be good in their arena. Like you’re saying with the martial arts, but, you know, I need you to be at this level. what you’ve been doing your whole life is here. And I can’t teach you to keep doing what you’re doing to get you to the next level. I have to do some different things.

When they tell me that I was a horrible shot. I just said, Look, I don’t want to kill anybody. I just want them to keep their heads down.

And it’s so funny. It’s so funny, because if somebody would have told me that it would have been the end of my world. I woulda felt terrible. Son, great.

I’m like, hey, are there potatoes I can peel, you have a coffeemaker that doesn’t work. I’m an electrician for Christ.

Yeah. So okay, so

I’m curious if you guys have have opinions on this right? How much of selling is like the nuance of figuring it out and making it fit for yourself and how much of it is the methodology that you follow? Whether it’s, you know, spin or Sandler or Herman Miller or, you know, Carnegie or john Maxwell, or any one of these other like methodologies that are super well known and and developed? What do you think that percentage is? Like, do you think it’s like 50/50? Do you think it’s 70/30?

No, I don’t, I don’t. So here’s what here’s what I would say. If If you drop the golf ball on the ground, and I handed you a nine iron, at some point, everybody would hit the golf ball in completely different ways. Right? And we could take 1000 Golf instructions, right to get us there. Some guys are going to excel with that golf instruction. Some people just don’t have the natural ability and some people don’t have the want to be there? Right? So even though the instructors taught Tiger Woods and you know, Bubba Watson and all these guys, and he’s world renowned, doesn’t make it right for the person that you’re teaching today, right? So I think it’s a combination. I think it floats from 99% to zero percent on how much training you actually use. But it’s all you. It’s all personally based. I look at it myself as a complete guideline book. These are some cool things. I like that I don’t like that. I would never do that. But I love to do that. I need to change this by using that. It’s a huge all across the board for me, and nobody’s perfect, right? And nobody’s right, just like your investment strategy guide Doc, that if you’re so good at this, why are you teaching this class? I mean, that’s a question in my head and said some valid question. Some people love to teach. That’s your passion life. But some people failed. But they knew enough to talk in front of people or they’re comfortable doing it. So that’s their new career path. Alright, so, um, I mean, there’s so many different things. I think you got to filter out all the stuff and make it your own. You know, a guy told me one time I was like, Clint, I could teach you 50 ways that I do it. But I know that you’re gonna take about three things of what I say, but you’re going to be better for it because you’re, you’re just gonna learn off what I did and my mistakes.

You know, Tony Robbins says that, you know, he did a lot of, you know, seminars and things like that in the very beginning. And one of the key points he said is, I was really just looking for one nugget out of everything that I tried to do, so that I can put it in my bag and it really sort of fit my knee, you know, what I was doing and how I was doing things already. And I think that’s where we sort of, sometimes we disrupt our own success way too much thinking that we just found the golden nugget. Well there, your bag should be full of golden nuggets, right, things that you use things that people have said to you that worked for them, that kind of stuff. who you are, right? And, and there’s where you, as time goes by, right? As time goes by in a decade, you should be better than you were 10 years prior. And you know, and I go back to this, if you should be good and five years and great in ten because it takes time. And if you’re not good in five, don’t think you’re going to get any better over the next five years. You’re just you’re just walking a path. And it’s going to become a rut over time, if you’re not careful.

And I’ll give you a good example of something that I’ve learned in the last five years that I’ve, I’ve completely changed as I use it as is DISC. We talked about it on here all the time, personality, right. In the beginning, I learned about it. It was an a-ha moment for me and I wanted to learn as much as I could about it, and I and I went after it. And then I started telling people that I knew what they were thinking right or how they were doing it because it was so exciting for me. And now, you know, years later, I’ve using it every day. Now I use it silently. And it’s the best tool that I have in my toolbox, right? I don’t tell them that, oh, you’re reacting this way, because you’re a D. I don’t even mention the words anymore. I use it internally to filter how I do things. But that’s a huge graduation from two years ago, three years ago, five years ago when I first heard about it, right? And so sales training to me and once you pick and choose out of the books, vehicles is the same thing, right? You’re developing that pattern to silently use it down the road.

I think it’s really important to know your I mean, basically what everyone is stated is that you need to know yourself first. Have confidence in yourself. And then you need to know your audience you know, and that’s what I feel like DISC is all about, but if you don’t know who you are, and you don’t know who your audiences your Yes,

But but more importantly, when you start analyzing DISC, you’ll learn how your personality interacts with all four, you know, the three other squares that I don’t live in, right? And how I approach, you know, John versus Clint versus man, every one of those has, I have an Achilles heel with each one of those, right? That can hamstring me if I’m not self aware, to stay out of the pitfalls of being an I and go, you know, going too long. Yeah, you know, all the pitfalls that I’s have. own that. Don’t try to change it. It’s just who you are. Sure, but learn to shut up, learn to let them talk, that kind of stuff.

And when we were talking about texting, I was, really a great example of, you know, being mindful of how you text other people. My best friend is a VP for American Airlines. She hates all of the hearts and whenever I text her, I just leave those out because I know she doesn’t like it. I know she loves me I love her. It’s great, but I’m not going to do that now the same thing with a client. If I’m if I’m texting Clint, I’m telling you right now he’s getting all kinds of hearts and

I was gonna say you can’t go short on Clint man he just he just gave up his main card with his emoji like Yeah. All you construction workers out there, remember Clint likes the emojis.

If you have Clint’s phone number text him right now with just emojis.

I want it Yeah, I want him calling me up and telling me to eff off because I just made that statement. Yeah.

You know, you know how many phone numbers I’m going to be blocking today?

Are there that many people that actually know your phone number?

I know his phone number. He’s gonna get it every day from me. For the next 30 days.

I think of you as like the real life Ron Swanson, right? Like no one’s got your phone number. No one knows where you live. Like, you’re like this mythical creature who’s like off the grid the majority of the time, and you build ridiculously cool tables.

That’s the best compliment you’ve ever given me.

Would it make sense to have a conversation about your CRM, just kidding.

No, Hey, no, because I have the best guy ever.

Of course you do. They’re all outside your door waiting to talk to you. That’s fantastic.

It makes really good sense not to talk to me then. Agreed, bye. See you.

Alright guys, so we’re time It’s one o’clock. So if you’ve been tuning into real anything on Facebook, okay, so no comments today. That’s all right. We are planning on returning back to the studio. And so that will change how this works. And we’ll keep you guys in the loop about what that looks like and how it works. But if you are struggling with sales due to COVID or you be new or just not knowing who you are, reach out to us we can get you one of these assessments, assessments at I’m sorry, DISC@salesthrowdown.com We’ve had some people reaching out, we’ve got some social proof of some people that have done it recently, and they’ve gotten good results from it. If you want Clint to go over your DISC assessment, you don’t really but if you do, you can ask for them.

If you can handle that kind of honesty, exactly. want somebody to lie to you, call me.

So yeah, so so if you want to feel good, if you want to take the assessment, and you want to pick the person who goes over it with you, awesome. Like, like, we love that, right? Because it’s gonna be more impactful if you hear it from someone who you’re already in line with. Right? So, so if you’re hearing out, just like that, you know, you’re not going to really enjoy the console, if I give it to you. You know, and vice versa. So, you know, I think I’m pretty good at breaking these things down. But you know, if, you know, I make claims My God, like, I want that from Clint, like, let us know we can do a console with Clint and put you into zoom and you go over it and you learn some stuff and you and Clint can call each other names, right? If you want to do that with Al, share stories. With me and facts, and Nannette, just love and happiness and compassion. Come get it. That’s why we’re here.

If you can’t afford a new puppy, and you need some love, call Nan.

Oh yeah, that’s a great ending note right there.

We’re gonna leave right there. We’ll see you guys next week. Follow us on social media, share this, like and subscribe. That’s how we continue moving this thing forward. So we’ll see you guys soon.