Episode 5: DISC Personality Type – Compliant

 

John

Okay, in this episode, we take a deep dive into me and my history and what it means to be a C as a salesperson. I think we cover a lot. The some key points to think about is when you’re dealing with C’s, you have to understand that they’re fact based and they’ve got their own process. So be aware of that. Also understand if you are a C, that people buy for their own reasons. We talk a lot about that and how I’ve struggled to wrap my head around that at times. And there’s a lot more. Follow us on social media. I hope you really enjoyed the episode. If you get any value, please share it with someone also in sales. Thanks a lot.

Announcer

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the main event. In the D corner we have Clint the Cleaver Bigelow. In the I corner we have Al the Gambler Daniel. In the S corner, we have Nan the Promoter Fallman. In the C corner, we have John Small Mountain Hill. Let’s get ready to throwdown.

John

Alright guys, this is episode number five. This is going to be my favorite episode maybe ever because it’s all about me. Actually, that makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

Nannette

We love him so much.

Clint

We can’t wait for this.

John

I know. I’m gonna get grilled. So this is gonna be awesome.

Al

Well, to stop you in midstream. You’re looking amazing.

Nannette

We love the way you look.

John

I appreciate it. So dapper, I guess.

Al

If you guys can see this on camera. Hopefully you guys are tuning in to the YouTube. John came dress for success. And this is awesome.

John

This is literally what I wear pretty much every day.

Nannette

Can you see your shoes, they match your shirt.

Clint

You took bicycle wear to a whole new level.

Nannette

I’m gonna go on a trail ride.

John

Awesome. Alright, let’s get on topic.

So if this is your first episode and you’ve not been here before. Exactly right. We’re here talking about personalities and how they impact our success and sales. And we break it into four quadrants. If you’re familiar with DISC, then you already know this, but D, I, S, and C. There’s two axises there, the vertical axis, one side of that, D’s and I’s are going to be very gut driven. S’s and C’s are fact driven, and the other vertical, I’m sorry, horizontal axis puts D’s and C’s on the same page, which makes us very task driven, and I’s and S’s are people and team driven. So I am going to be up in that pretty far left hand corner, task driven and fact driven. So we’re going to talk about, I guess my history, I will answer some questions actually brought my DISC assessment from the most recent time I took, some of my strengths. Of course I did. I’m always prepared. And yeah, we’ll go ahead and go. So I’m gonna let you guys ask me questions, because I’m always asking questions.

Clint

So so we’re does that lie in the DISC spectrum? Where’s your, where’s your current one at?

John

I am a C with some S.

Clint

Okay. And we always have a secondary letter that we slide to right. So you slide to an S.

John

And then my perceived need for work is to be like Al, to be an off the chart I.

Clint

Tough slide

Al

Surprising,

John

Surprising. Well, being the face of a company, I feel like I’ve got to be out there and promoting and networking and everything else.

Al

When I say surprising because from a social sense, I know you slide that way. But when you say that in business, that’s the route that you feel like you need to go. Yeah, how, does that? Is that a conflict for you ever?

John

You know, what’s really weird is, as I get older, I realized that a little bit more because it used to be on the weekends, No, yeah, I wish. When I when I was younger, and really even until this current move into my own thing. On the weekends, I couldn’t wait to get out and socialize. And I was always available to network and coffee and hang out with friends. And what I’m realizing now is that I get a little bit of burnout, right? Because I’m so social. I’m always trying to make myself available networking, business development, all this other stuff. So on the weekends, it takes something pretty awesome for me to want to like get out of the house. Right, I become kind of this homebody because it’s me recharging my batteries, which is not anything that’s ever really happened before. So…

Clint

John, let’s take it take a little step back here. Yeah. And let’s talk about you professionally. Where you, where you came from what you do now? Okay, let’s talk about your history a little bit because it’s really important to this.

John

So I’m going to say as a ballpark I’ve had more jobs than anyone here at this table, combined, combined. For sure. I started I was in the army, came home. And then before the army thought I was too good to wait tables, army taught me that that was not true.

So realized that I wasn’t too good at it started to wait tables, enjoyed it, realized that really socializing with people, trying to upsell, everything else. And then I moved into actual sales at a call center. It wasn’t really, it’s more support with like an upsell on the end of it. And that was okay. And then I moved into phone sales, sold phones for at&t and sprint and then got poached to go into banking. Worked in banking for a little bit.

Al

When you say you got poached, what do you mean?

John

Someone came in? They were impressed with the experience of like working with me and my knowledge and everything else. And they came back in the next day. And I was like, Hey, is everything okay with the phone? They’re like, yeah, everything’s fine. like to talk to about a job. So I’m open. What’s the job? They said, I worked for Chase. I was like, oh, let’s talk about that. Bankers hours? Hell yeah, I’m down. Look at you. And left that because I was just kind of done with retail from being really, really honest. And banking was not the sweet spot I thought it was going in.

Clint

What turned you off me off about retail?

John

Mostly the hours, right?

Clint

You’re working when everybody else is off work, right?

John

Well, that and more than anything else. It interfered with my training in martial arts. Right. I’m a huge martial arts advocate. I’ve been training since 2004 in one art or another.

Clint

You haven’t gotten very good at it.

John

That’s true. I’m terrible. You should come try me.

Al

I got money says you won’t win, bring your wallet when you come.

He can protect all of us.

John

And that’s how Al and I met actually, when we met at a martial arts school and kind of became friends there.

Al

I’m hardly as good as this man. So…

John

You’re gonna just put a big target on my back, awesome.

Nannette

Even sifu said you’re amazing.

John

Oh, well thank you. So it was more about interfering with that than it was anything else. Like I was fine working Saturdays and Sundays, but I just couldn’t train as much as I wanted to. And that was a big burnout. So moved to banking, it was okay. It was in the middle of if you worked for Chase, then you’re familiar with the concept of work in the lobby, which is just as essentially pouncing on anyone who walked in the door.

Clint

So not much different than AT&T, Sprint, thing kind of people come in the door. You got to react for sure. Figure out what’s going on what they want, what their needs are.

John

And it’s very formulaic. Right? It’s really interesting, because you, you assume that you’ve got good sales training, sales savvy, but you really don’t know just products and features and benefits. And like, there’s no real way to qualify people. There’s not there’s no sales training. It’s just product knowledge, which is what most people define as sales training these days anyways. So worked for a couple banks, and then actually, Al gave me a shot doing what he does, and did that for about 18 months. And then after that, got into a business with a partner and doing websites and did that for a couple years now.

Clint

Now, you met through martial arts? And he? Did you guys have a conversation at all about sales? Or how did that happen?

John

We originally had a conversation about backing him in the poker arena? Yeah. Which was a great experience. John, John’s a gambler, which I can always support that, right. And so you know, through care to the win, you know, put support support by behind that. And I can tell you one of the things about John is, John tells the truth, right, win or lose good or bad, right? He’s just going to tell you hey, this is what happened. Right? Which I I love that.

Clint

Yeah, you ask, you tell. That’s kind of a lost art. Least Yeah. Right. So you kind of kind of beat around the bush a lot. When people ask you questions, you don’t want to answer them. Honestly, that’s something that John, as a C, and his personality gravitates towards. You ask, I tell, because facts right, you always like to speak in facts.

John

Oh, I love it. I love it so much.

Clint

And if you don’t know the fact you’re, you’re very quick to back away from talking about it. Because at all the research hasn’t been done, you haven’t, you haven’t come to a conclusion that you can give the best advice for somebody. That’s that’s really a dynamic to what I C in the DISC personality is.

John

Yeah, I would agree. Um, you know, whenever I work for Al, it was my first shot in like a pure b2b realm.

Clint

Explain b2b.

John

Business to business versus business to consumer. Thank you for clarifying. Because not everybody would know that automatically. And I struggled, like it was not easy. And part of it was my own fault. Because I asked Al about his experiences. And as we know, Al had been in medicine for a long time before he got into this realm. So my mileage was definitely different than Al’s, you know, because I said, part of my qualifying to see if I wanted to go do this with Al was, how long until you went to commission. Said three months. It’s like, Okay, awesome. So it five months, when I don’t have anybody even willing to have a conversation with me yet. I’m terrified, I’m about to get fired, right, just so nervous, because not performing, and everything else. And then Luckily, there was another guy at the same school. And when I decided to leave Al, because it just, I felt bad because I wasn’t being successful. And I was just kind of burnt out had a kind of bad experience with a doctor. And I decided that I would just rather go wait tables to restaurants, if necessary, then continue to like plug away at this thing and not see success, which is also a C trait, right? Like we give up pretty pretty easily in some instances. So…

Clint

C in the spectrum, the way we describe it, the C word is stands for compliant, compliant, for sure. So when you’re dealing with facts, and you’re dealing with a quick way to make money, right, if you’re talking about the sale side, if that if that data isn’t there to continue forward. I wouldn’t say give up, I’d say you’re quick to drop it and find something new.

John

For sure. Absolutely. Right. And that’s part of reason why I’ve had as many jobs as I’ve had, right. I mean, when you’re waiting tables, it’s real easy to move jobs, and the grass is always greener. And I’m always looking for, you know, ways to improve. And so that led to like a lot of job hopping in the restaurant industry. But after leaving Al, a friend of mine who kind of started me on this path was like, Hey, I got this business, I’d like you to come in and help me run it. So we started a website design agency, focusing in the affordable realm, did that for four years, and then he moved to Seattle. And this didn’t really seem viable for the long term. So I left and now I’ve got this thing I’m working on now.

Clint

But was this successful? When you when you made that jump to the web design?

John

Was what successful me, me working for Al?

Clint

You personally? To the web design?

John

No, no, no, not at all. Honestly, I was when I was working for Al I worked. When you work for Al, you work in this industry in you got to be in the or mostly surgeons want to start very, very early, like four or 5am. Sometimes since I would work all day with Al. And, and the Nannette. And then Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, and Sunday morning, I would go wait tables, because it kind of offset because daycare was expensive, and my kid was young.

Clint

But when you got into the web design, because that’s a pretty big leap, right? So you go from, you go from selling technology, cell phones, sort of you go to the banking industry, which is a whole nother side of selling that. Me personally have a hard time understanding of what that entails. Then you go to work for Doc in the medical field, which is a crazy jump, right huge jump. And we’ve talked about this quite a bit personally, and a little bit on these past episodes. But then you go into a web design. And and as you’re so there’s another realm that you’re probably not necessarily familiar with. But you you’re starting to pick up some of these details of how to sell to people. Right? And that, was that successful when you moved into the web design?

John

So if it wasn’t for that, and wasn’t for my partner at that company, Geof, I wouldn’t be here. And I don’t think Al and Nannette would be here. You know, Geof is the guy who kind of put me on the path. I mean, before that. The idea of self improvement in any other realm, other than martial arts, in my opinion, was woowoo, bullshit, right? Like, this is not…

Clint

Like self help books, and…

John

Absolutely, screw all of that, right. I’ve got it figured out, you know. And whenever I started working with Geof, and he was like, Hey, you need to go take this DISC assessment. I was like, man, I don’t need to go take a test to sell with you. And he was like, you’re not going to do this. It’s, we’re done talking. Wow. Which is weird because…

Nannette

You have to identify who you are.

John

Absolutely. Geof is as big of an I, if not larger than Al. Right. So for him to draw that line in the sand is really important. And it was arguably one of the more validating points in my life, because it’s, I’m not this outlier. I’m not this unique individual who only feels this way. There’s a whole group of us that do it.

Clint

And then you talked about it on a prior episode, you were pretty surprised when you found out your DISC assessment.

John

Yeah. So I thought I was an I.

Clint

Which is very interesting.

John

Because I’m very, I’m very social, right. And when when we talked about C’s in general, right, and we talked about engineers and accountants and things like that, I don’t really fit that personality. But the thing to remember is that pressure comes into play in business and in selling and stuff like that.

Clint

Want to talk about the reason that you slide to a corner, we all slide to a certain corner, is under the stressful obligations, or those those really interesting business conversations where you, you kind of get, so to speak, backed into a corner and you pick yourself naturally. That’s what that’s what the four of us are, D, I, S and C. Naturally, that’s what happens. We can all sit here and talk about our social life and how we all get along. We can all play that game. But naturally deep down when we go to sleep at night, we slide to a certain corner. And for you it’s a C, it’s compliant. It’s data. Its facts.

Al

Yeah, mines, generally the fetal position.

Clint

But it had to come out eventually.

John

So what’s really interesting is Geof thought that I was a D, because he was only around me at the martial arts school, right? And a C…

Al

Where you’re a bad Mofo.

John

Yeah, something along those lines. So when you’re a C, and you get to that point where you feel like you have what your mastery, it’s really easy to come off as a D, right? So in areas of my life, where I feel like I know enough knowledge, and I’ve done enough reps, you can’t fucking touch me. Like, like, I’m going to argue with you. I’m going to stand my ground. But I won’t do that. If I haven’t done my version of the 10,000 hours to get to that point.

Clint

I can speak from the D corner, why I would guess that you’re a D, a lot of times, is that you deal with you make hard decisions, right? That’s tough to do you tell people what they want to hear. The difference, I think, between a high D and a high C, is the fact that you’re willing, a D is willing to make that off the gut, right? He’s willing to feel it, Al let’s go for it. And if I’m wrong, and we’ll move on. Whereas the C likes to analyze all that data to make that decision. You will make the decision, you will always make the decision, but there’s going to be some research. There’s going to be some analysis done, there’s going to be some research. And when you when you finally get there, you’re going to make that really good decision. And nine times out of 10 dealing with all these personalities, it’s the most accurate,. You may not like it, you may not like what you hear, but it’s going to be pretty accurate stuff. Going back to why you like to have, you know, if I had an accountant, that’s, that’s the personality trait that I would want to want them to be right. It doesn’t degrade anybody. That’s truly saying that they’re going to do their homework, they’re going to get you the most bang for your buck, they’re going to get you facts. That’s a really important…

Nannette

You don’t want your CPA to be a…

Al

So, I have a CPA, and he’s a lot like John, I call him when I’m in a panic, and he tells me to calm the F down. Right, like, like Quentin Tarantino, you know, I got this right. You know, it’s who’s coming from, you know, East LA to help Danny out, right? And so, a lot of times, a guy like me, absolutely needs somebody like you. Right. In, in the sense of the, the, the fact base aspect of feet on the ground. This is how we’re going to get this done. You know, the the algorithm that gets the job done. And believe me, you know, from a C, an I standpoint to a C, we reach across for each other right now, which is not always the easiest slide, but no, right? Not at all. Yeah. But you laugh when you say that, because there’s still a connection between us. Right?

John

For sure. Yeah.

Clint

You need each other?

Nannette

Yeah, well, that’s the whole premise of the whole thing. We all need each other. You cannot be you cannot run a business predicated on just this little D or an I, you have to have the whole dynamic. And if you don’t, you’re not going to be successful. You have to have the different personalities that bring strength to the table.

John

Well, I think I said it on on the first episode is that if you just look at my DISC profile, like no one’s gonna hire me as a salesperson like no one at all. And Geof actually went against that advice and hired me because he was just going to try to offset his weaknesses, right. I mean, he had been in this world for a while, he’s very familiar. And he had he had in the past only hired I’s and talks about the fact that it was really fun when it was fun. But when it was tight or stressfull, no one wanted to work.

Al

Yeah, how did you work your way out? Right? Yeah.

John

So he took a shot. And we we did that. And then he moved. And then I worked for a start up for a little while, which was kind of an interesting experience, and then got laid off and decided I wasn’t going to do that again, and started my present company.

Al

Well tell us a little bit about that.

John

Yeah, so I have a consulting company called Adaptive Growth. And what we do is we work with entrepreneurs, small teams, and nonprofits to help them give process and to use technology to actually track sales, right. Very C thing to do. Let’s take this thing that most people don’t want to track. And let’s track it and treat it like a math problem, because that’s essentially what we do. If you have enough data in your CRM, we can look at, are you wasting time? Are you are you dealing with the right prospect?

Clint

Where’s your strengths, where, where are your weaknesses at?

For me, I’ve talked about this on on one of the podcast, it was very when I when I talk about hit ratios, and I talk about wins, losses, who’s my good customers, who my bad customers are. That directly reflects the business that you have. Without that data, and somebody tracking all of that? You’re just guessing. Right? Absolutely. You think so one of the facts that, that I want to say about what you do. And your personality that works really well is that I have a hard time looking at a customer because I’m friendly with them, and saying, Okay, this is my great customer, I love this guy, I want to work with this guy. But if they’re not making you money, right, if you’re not making money with them, or not doing a good job, or you guys don’t work together, that really shows up on a spreadsheet. That really shows up in data collection. And a lot of times people overlook that because hey, we’re friendly, we like to go to baseball games, we like to do these things together with our family. So they’re my best customer. But the fact is, as well, the data that you produce in your company now, and CRM, it’s a huge deal. We can name we can name 20 different ways to do it. But without that data, you you tend to get lost in feelings and people. And the fact is, and when you run a business and a successful one, you need data, you need hard data to prove those facts. Yeah, that’s where guys like you come in really handy.

John

Yeah, I mean, if you want to forecasts, you know, six months, 12 months, you know, 24 months into the future, the way to go look at that, if you’re going to take bets on your business about hiring or growing or scaling or anything else, you have to go look at your pipeline to see what’s in there, understanding that some of its going to fall out and there’s, you know, variants and things happen. But if I know that I close 80% of things that once they’re at that qualified state, and I’ve got a million dollars in that pipeline, I can make some pretty safe assumptions on my business about hiring and scaling and everything else. But people don’t do that. They just look at the lag, which is just money in the account.

Clint

Here’s what we did last year. So next year will be better.

John

Yeah, let’s add 10% which is crazy. Ridiculous.

Nannette

Not long term.

Al

So when you sell, describe your selling technique, I mean, when you’re out there throwing your pitch, now what does that look like?

Clint

I hope your answer is you don’t do that.

John

True, right. I mean, if if we’re if we’re at the point to where we’re pitching you, I’ve qualified you. It makes sense.

Al

Right. Okay, back. How do you, poor choice of words? Describe to me your sales process? I use the word pitch.

My verbiage. Not yours.

John

Right. Well, you know, it’s more or less the same things that we all do. Right? Do you have pain that I can solve? Right? Because no one has a budget for what I do. No one is sitting around thinking, Okay, we should really update our CRM or put some more, you know, database measurements into that thing. Let’s have a documented sales process. Let’s hire a consultant.

Al

We went to lunch, I came back and decided I was going to pay for another spreadsheet.

Clint

Yeah, you’re you’re absolutely you’re actually worse than if my toilet breaks. I don’t have a budget for when my toilet breaks, right? You’re actually beyond that. For sure. Because it’s not even a pain to most people. They don’t even know that they have a pain. Right? Correct. And you have to discover that.

John

Because most people take the turn and burn approach. Like oh, if this guy isn’t working, fuck it, get them out of here. We’ll bring in the next one because sales people are like easy to get. But what they’re not really understanding is like how much time you invest in every person, you have to train and bring in and that loss of time you don’t make back.

Al

Turnover is a crusher, man, that is the probably the most unrecognized aspect of business. When you lose an employee. How much time does it take you to retrain? Rehire and the distraction to everybody else in your process?

John

If you’re not terrified by the prospect of hiring and it not going well? Oh, I question what other decisions you’re making in your business.

Al

I agree and I’m an I. That is the kiss of death in small a particularly small to medium businesses, right. And I know guys who fired their entire staff once a year, and I’m like, you wonder why you can’t buy the jet airplane. You just threw jet fuel and all the extras out the door when you had to go reestablish your your entire process, which is what you do.

Clint

So you’re you were talking earlier about this? This guy, Geof, that took a chance on you. Yeah, one of the things that I commend him for that and, and I know him a little bit, not much. One thing that I commend to anybody that’s like Doc said, going through this hiring processes, you may have all the right people on your team, you may have everybody that you need, you may not, but if you do, they may not be in the right positions. Understanding personalities and what they’re good at, their strengths and their weaknesses. Yeah, putting them in the right positions to do what they like to do, what they’ll do for you day in and day out to make you and your company and themselves successful is huge. DISC is one of those ways to really take a deep dive, especially in a sales position to realize strength and weakness. For me, we could go about this all day on what I have that that is good for the salesforce also, that is weakness. You as a C shouldn’t be a salesperson in traditional sales. Oh, for sure. So you’re you were you were kind of touching on that earlier of, you know, if somebody looked at my DISC personality, and said, should we hire this guy as a salesperson? They’d say, No way. This guy’s a, he’s kind of a he likes data and facts. He likes to stay. Go ahead.

Al

But let me hold you up there. But But analytics sells. I was gonna say if somebody walks in and says, Do you know the metrics of your business? Do you know if you’re going for, a plane leaves New York going to Europe, right? Well, the data determines whether they land or not, right?

Nannette

You don’t want the, you don’t want the S, the kind person.

Al

You’d be in Antarctica.

Clint

Hopes and dreams.

Al

Right? I mean, the…

Nannette

And you don’t want the D? Who’s gonna go, I’m gonna get ’em.

Yeah, we’ll get there. We’ll get there. Don’t trust me. We don’t know swim it.

Al

Okay, the D, you’re swimming across the river, and you realize you don’t have enough energy to get there. Right? Ever. Nobody’s ever swam that far and they’re dying, right?

Nannette

And I’m like, get on my back. I’ll get ya there.

Clint

Well, I think I think that everybody has to have in your organization a hard C. Because otherwise you’re, you’re just fishing, right? You’re literally out there with no rhyme or reason, doing what you think might work. And 9 times out of 10, it doesn’t.

Al

I disagree. It becomes the issue. And I’ll tell you why. Because we talked about that, like living in the country. That one mistake that kills you, right. John prevents you from that one mistake. Because most of us fly by the seat of our pants. And we survived most of the encounters, we know people die on all of the grains.

Clint

Yeah, well, now I could I could go into that story. I will. I will say that there’s there’s complete federal departments like OSHA, for example. OSHA exists because of data, it only gets better because somebody tracking data.

Al

Because people die on the job, right? Or businesses fail, right? For sure. So if if, because guys like me don’t see failure. Right? And D sometimes don’t see failure?

Clint

Well, I do I just put in the room. Exactly.

Al

And I go, Oh, my God, and then I find something else to to occupy my time. So when you look at something, what do you think about failure? How do you assess it?

John

What I so one of the biggest things about being a C is we hate being wrong, right? Which is why we collect so much information, because since we’re fact based, I can rely on those facts. No way. I’m right, these facts point that out. So where that is limiting is the fact that C’s are going to be slower to start, right? Because they need to collect a certain amount of information before they’ll take that first step, before they’ll take that for sales call. They need enough information. And Geof and I whenever I started, because we’re, because we were not developers were to sales guys. We had a team of developers. So his constant lecture to me was like, we don’t have time for you to go figure out how to be WordPress developer, because that’s what we did was like WordPress websites. Because I wanted to know just a little bit more, right, like, like hey Geof, like, I’m gonna, I’m not going to call it today, I’m going to do this learn a little bit more about like how this stuff works now. Exactly. But along with that, as I hate being wrong, and little bitty things that I take that other people would take as being just wrong, I take as failure, right? If I’m playing poker, and I make a bluffing it called, my instinct is like, man, I screwed that up so bad when, when in actuality, he he probably folds three out of four times, I just ran into the top end of his range whenever he actually had it, right. But I take that as a failure, I get red in the face, I get mad at myself, and I got to get up and take a lap. Martial Arts is the same thing. If I can’t get a technique within like the first three. I’m furious. I’m real mad, which makes it worse. But like, that’s just how we operate. So failure is like a very real thing to me. Probably more real than like anybody else here at this table. Because little bitty things show up as huge failures for me.

Clint

What is so, so when you get back to those stressful situations, martial arts or sales processes or just daily life, when you get backed in to those really stressful? Shit, I gotta stop and pause. What’s your natural inclination? How do you how do you process that? What do you do?

Al

So when I’m in your dish, martial arts wise, right, I got you back on your heels.

John

It’s never happened.

Al

I know. Hypothetically speaking, what goes through your mind? Right when I’m right up there on you.

John

You know, what’s really interesting? And I don’t know if this is for everybody who’s a C or just me is, I don’t have any ego about being right. Right. For as much as I love being right, I don’t have any attachment to it.

Al

Seriously, that’s prophetic. It is seriously because I everybody listening, no ego about being right.

John

Beautiful. Because if you are better than me, I just want to know it. How’d you get there? Right. I don’t know. I don’t have to do the whole thing of like, Man, fuck this guy. Yeah. Like, like, there’s no easy to me. There’s no challenge to me if you’re better than me. I love that though. Man. I’m willing to like sit at your feet and figure out like what what you’re doing that makes you different? Because I love those little bit of differences.

Al

Can I stop you for a second? As you slide to knowing a D, that’s sliding to knowing as a C right. Dude, that is? I hope people are hearing this.

Nannette

So I what I hear is I agree with that.

John

Well, because it’s facts, it’s just in another form.

Clint

So there’s there’s a big difference here Nan. Nannette. Sorry.

John

That’s hard. That’s hard.

Clint

For sure. So I will say that the people side of Doc and yourself. That that makes a little bit of sense does, complete sense to me, you? That doesn’t make any sense to me. It doesn’t. I mean, I always want be the professional in the room. I always want to be the best. And that’s really hard. Because one of the negative sides of me is that I can’t take a lot of help. I can’t understand that you’re trying to teach me as a teacher. I disagree. I think he’s totally like, no, because he but think about, you know, he’ll, he’ll take feedback.

John

Yeah, but I I’m always looking for feedback, right? Even in situations where I feel like I’ve got a really good grasp, but I put in my 10,000 hours and I know what what the hell I’m talking about. If someone gives me a weird look, I’m like, Okay, what did what did? What did I just say? What did I just do? Like, like, what’s making you give me that look? And do you have a difference of opinion?

Clint

Yeah, I would say you’re really good at reading tonality, body language. I’ve seen you do that many times.

John

That’s the hardest thing for me is thinking about tone and cadence.

Clint

For you to do but not to read. Two different things.

Because I watch you do it every day, man. I think you’re pretty damn good at it.

John

It’s just, it’s just habit and practice. Okay. Right. Because it’s not my it’s not my natural state.

Al

I agree with Clint, you do it very well.

John

Thank you. I appreciate that. I put probably more emphasis on tone and cadence in like body language than I think most other people do.

Al

In your own or other people?

John

Both. I had a terrible stutter for ever from kindergarten until eighth grade.

Clint

You still do.

John

I stutter occasionally. No, I do. I’m stressed out. I’ll stutter a little bit. And there are certain words that are triggers. For me anything that starts with a ‘how’, or an H on the front, I have to really make sure that I have you. How’s your day going? Let’s talk about that. Right? Working at Chase. I’m supposed to greet every customer comes in. And I would feel pressure and someone would come in and I would just not be able to get an H sound out of my mouth. Right? Yeah, super crazy. I’ve been hypnotized for it. It’s been a lifelong issue. So this idea that I’m a salesperson, I have to communicate all day, every day with clients and prospects is kind of astounding to people who knew me as a kid.

Clint

So you don’t put the H before the W?

John

Well, it’s the sound, right. I’m fine with Ws. H’s are a struggle for me.

Clint

So it’s interesting. I’ve never heard that out of you at all.

John

I worked my ass off for it to be not a thing because man, you were talking about getting ridiculed and made fun of. I mean, I’m still growing into these ears. You can see them under the headphones if you’re watching the camera, but you know, the teeth and the stutter and you know, kind of large lips, man, I was ridiculed. I didn’t need one more thing that I could improve upon.

Nannette

Everyone has something to be ridiculed on.

Clint

It’s really interesting, because we would all handle that situation very differently. You You did it in an analytical way that you said, Okay, I have an issue.

John

What is the easiest thing to fix? Yeah,

Clint

Here’s what I’m going to fix. Whereas I would be like, fuck this, I’m out, I’m gonna go find something else I’m good at with a stutter. Doc’d play it off. Like, dude, I got a stutter, I’m cool shit.

Al

I would go home and cry every night.

I would, cry myself to sleep.

Clint

But Nannette would be like, you know, everybody’s different. Everybody’s got a flaw.

Everybody loves me.

Nannette

Anybody that doesn’t believe that is being silly.

Al

So did you cortically override that?

John

I mean, no, actually.

Al

Or did you have a limbic emotion that…

John

In eighth grade at the school I was at, we got a brand new speech pathologist, brand new out of school, and just had the newest stuff new. Because up until that point was slow down, talk slower. That’s not my problem. Because really, my stuttering is worse when I’m trying to talk slow.

Clint

You think about it.

John

Exactly. But what she actually came with was like process, right? There’s this whole thing. If you’ve been in speech therapy, and you have a stutter, it’s prolonging the first syllable. How’s it going today? And I don’t, there’s no struggle there whatsoever. So what she really gave me was just the process to work past this thing that I hated and had a big struggle with.

Clint

Well, isn’t that interesting, that everything is process oriented? Yeah, it’s super weird, right? Everything that’s you’re a fan of.

John

Martial artists and poker and everything. Yeah,

Clint

Everything has a process. That number one ruling this whole game, folks, if you’re listening is a process is key.

Al

I said that last session but you’re right. Rip me off, D.

Clint

I forgot everything you said sorry.

I thought that was my idea.

Al

Thank you for that. Thank you for that. Guys, listen to the last episode.

Clint

So I think I told him that in a pre meeting.

John

I’ve got this pulled up from my DISC profile of some of my motivators, which is really, really awesome. Right.

Nannette

Thank you for bringing this back in. Of course. Thank you.

John

Instructions before starting a task. Don’t just say a loose ‘oh, go figure this out.’ No, that, I’m just gonna ask you a bunch of questions until I have enough information.

Clint

Do you need to know the why?

John

Yeah, I absolutely need to know the why. Right. Which is why I was not cut out to be long term soldier.

Clint

Yeah, cuz that’s in. Yeah, I big picture’s gone.

John

Right. I was in the reserves, I joined as a reservist. And then as soon as they said, you want to go inactive? I said, Absolutely. And because there was no communication, right? I mean, part of it was bad leadership, and part of it was me just being incessantly curious and skeptical.

Clint

That’s interesting, I didn’t need any of that. Oh, yeah. Tear the wall down, okay.

John

Yeah. Go go. Take that area. Yeah. How do you want? How do you want me to do that? Just go figure it out. I have some more questions. Oh, shit, that works. So well. For me. Wow, that’s that. That’s not over.

Let’s see.

Detailed instructions, right kind of goes along with the first thing.

Freedom to do my own word without being disturbed. Right, which is a huge, huge thing for me. Working at home is…

Al

So how about the bowel movement that gets in your way? What do you do with that?

John

I’m learning at the same time.

Clint

That’s what laptops are for.

John

I literally watch, watch, watch webinars to like, try to improve like, while I’m handling business.

Clint

If this was the mid 90s, he had 300 foot extension cords.

Al

He’s got the like, the phone that you’re talking to your girlfriend now. And your parents don’t hear you like dragging it.

Clint

Thank God for laptops.

John

Opportunities to increase my knowledge? Absolutely. I mean, I’m a huge refinement guy. I’m always looking for that realistic goals, not aggressive and not aggressive environment job, which is kind of interesting. I don’t really know that that’s true. Some things that reduce my motivation having to decide alone. I’m very big about let me go ask this guy who’s done it before? Let me go.

Nannette

You like confirmation.

John

Let me go read reviews.

Al

Let me ask you this, because it’s strange, because I know we asked you a lot about John, does this make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So when you say that, we’re asking you to tell us? So how do you square that?

John

Because I’ve already been down the path and most of stuff they were talking about, as far as you know, marketing and promoting this joint venture that we’re on right now. Right? I’ve, I’ve spent a lot of time in that realm. So if you ask me, something that I wasn’t familiar with, I’ll go figure it out. I mean, you might be waiting three weeks, whereas like Clint’s gonna give you an hour and a day, or, you know, sorry, decision in an in an hour or less. I’m gonna go research, I’m gonna go up in seven tabs. I’m going to go read 17 blog posts, sign up for webinars and all this other stuff. But like, like, that’s just what I do.

Al

Does that get in the way of making money?

Clint

It gets in the way progress.

Al

Well, you say that you say that? I’m asking him.

If that hurts a little bit, shut up.

Let your boyfriend speak.

Clint

Can we define a D any better?

Al

Quite please.

John

Yeah, at times, okay, right. Because if I was Clint, I would just jump without looking. Yeah, we’re, yeah, we’re gonna do this, right.

Al

I’m not talking about Clint, I’m talking about you.

John

I know. But like, it’s the difference, though, right? Because I need to think about it. You know, I need to, I need to work through my questions. I need to go talk to other people who know, okay, and, you know, prime example of this is whenever we started the website design company, we didn’t offer hosting to people, we didn’t want to do it. And then people kept asking for it, asking for it. And then finally, Geof comes in one day, and he was like, we’re gonna offer hosting, and I was like, Oh, okay. And all of a sudden, I’ve got 17 questions queued up in my head that I’m going to ask him, and he goes, you have a lot of questions. By now we’ve been working together for a while we kind of knew how the other person operated. He goes, this is not a fully formed idea. You have a ton of questions, go write them all down, and we’ll work with them tomorrow was like, awesome. Right? It was super helpful.

Nannette

He didn’t just discount it.

John

Just discount it. Yeah, he didn’t. He didn’t just discount it with which would have been easy to do for an I, you hear that tall boy crack right over there.

Al

Not sure what brand it is.

If anybody wants to support, we’ll take the sponsorships.

It might have been a sparkling water.

John

It might have been but it wasn’t.

Al

They don’t have the money beer companies do.

Give me a major brand.

Clint

Like I was gonna announce it but you told me to shut the fuck up.

John

But uh, yeah. That incessant need to know will keep me from making a decision just moving forward. Right? Which is why one of my favorite sayings is ‘perfect is the enemy of good.’ I’m always looking for perfect. Always, always.

Al

So, how do you balance that out to move forward?

John

It’s it’s this right? It’s knowing it’s knowing that I will. I will sit in a room and ask questions and read as opposed to starting and knowing that that doesn’t pay my bills. And that that doesn’t get me to where I want to be in my business.

Al

So your motivation to move is move forward, meaning on a project? Excellent. How do you get outside of the analytics and get into the action step?

John

That’s a good question.

I think it’s just knowing that I gotta pay bills. Okay. Right. Knowing that every day I wake up and I’m behind, right? And that I got to go out, right? Because Because, you know, if you take all your bills divided by 365, right, when you wake up in the morning, you’re behind the ball.

Al

The analysis of the debt owed, right? For sure. Or the the the project ahead, right, here’s, here’s what you gotta do.

John

I’ve got rent and bills, and yeah, you know, partners and some staff now and that’ll grow. So I gotta pay all of that. And that doesn’t get paid. If I just sit and ponder and try to get to perfect, I got to make a decision and be okay with the fact that I’m going to be wrong, sometimes. It’s not comfortable. But the more you do it, the easier it becomes, it’s muscle memory and at a certain point.

Al

So

John

Clint does not believe me or something.

Al

It’s different from the way we view things. I know what makes me chase. I know what makes me get off my ass. It’s…

Clint

No, I know what he meant. He you know, as a business owner as a a different responsibility. Even as a single person, you worry about yourself versus when you get married, you have kids, there’s there’s a lot of responsibilities, you have a ton of responsibility. And the way you define that is, I’m going to go out there, and I’m going to make this a daily fact that I have to succeed at. And I’m going to, I’m gonna try to produce something that gets me there daily. For sure, which is interesting, because…

John

But man, it gets so analytical like, like, there’s so many there’s seven more layers to that.

Clint

I know.

That’s the surface, and the funny thing is, that’s nine more layers than I have, for sure. Period.

And that’s 100%.

This is where me and doc Al will actually agree on this.

John

That monthly amount that I need to like get up and make over the course of the month is then factored into, like the behaviors that I do like each and every week, right? And measuring the front end of that, and not just the lagging indicators of how much money’s in the bank. Because that doesn’t help me.

Al

Because here’s the crazy part. I know don’t even know what it takes, to what, to pay my bills.

Nannette

Perseverance

Al

Don’t have a fucking clue.

John

Really?

Al

Don’t know the dollar amount.

Clint

I couldn’t tell you either.

John

Oh, my God.

Nannette

As the only single girl on the panel, just perseverance. Just do it every day.

John

Right

Clint

Thousands of dollars, couldn’t tell you.

Al

I look at my bank account. And I’m shocked either about how much I have or how much I don’t have.

Clint

I’m told you can buy lunch or you can’t Yeah.

Al

I look down and I go, it’s either peanut butter or filet mignon.

Nannette

Peanut butter.

Al

No said I like them both, too. Right? I’m good with either or. I just I don’t know, till I know. Every three months, I look at my bank account.

John

Before working with Geof and learning about KPIs and leading indicators and how those…

Clint

What’s KPIs?

John

Key predictive indicators, right.

Clint

So why is that important?

John

So these are the things you look at, because you know that they lead to sales, right? I can’t control how many people say yes, but I can control how many people I asked. So if I if I know that I close one in 10. If I want to close another one, I need to talk to ten more people. Like that’s how I run my life. And when I learned that, and I can remember specifically having that conversation and sitting down and just being blown away that there was a different way to do it. Because before that I was just caught in this paradigm of more, I need more reps, I need more. And I and I was kind of still working with Al. And I needed more doctors, right I need more hours in the day, I needed all this stuff. And it wasn’t until I went I went to work with Geof. And we sat down and figured out like what my weekly behaviors needed to look like as far as the count, how many meetings, right how many decision maker conversations that I need to have per week, and what behaviors that I need to do each week to get to that count. And then I can remember, Thursday afternoon, and I’d finished all my behaviors for the week. Like I was just like ahead of the game. And he’s like, taking a break. I said now I’m kind of done. He’s like you, what do you mean, you’re done. I was like, I’ve done all my KPIs for the week. He’s like cool, like, let’s go get a beer. I was like, wait a minute, I’m not done. He was like, man, we gotta trust in the process, which is a huge jiu jitsu thing, right? You know, you trust in the process, you know, make improvements. And he said that to me, and it shifted instantly. I didn’t feel this pressure of like, okay, like, let’s keep the scramble going. I did what I needed to do, we trust the process and we’ll adjust it as time goes on. Now I can turn it off and work on other stuff, right? Big Picture stuff, and not just sales transactional stuff.

Al

Which is so different, because I usually just reach into my front pocket, and I pull out the debit card, and I go, let’s see if it works.

John

I mean, it’s a process.

Al

If it pays the bill. If not, you’re gonna have to perform. Yeah, right. So we can buy the drinks.

Clint

I’m with you.

John

So, yeah, that that, in that in that moment is when everything, everything changed for me, because up until that point, I had this rep and all my friends circles that I was the guy in sales, and I was always closing and I was always kind of prospecting. You know, like, when I was at the bank, it’s like, Hey, who do you bank with? When I was in cell phone? What kind of phone do you have? And I thought I needed to do that to be successful. You know, trying to pitch to everybody. And it wasn’t until that moment that I was like, Oh shit, I don’t have to be this annoying person and trying to sell to all my friends and my family.

Al

I don’t think, I’ve never seen you annoying.

Nannette

Very good.

Clint

Well, that’s, that’s a…

Al

No, I mean that sincerely. You say that about yourself. But I think of that. Maybe that’s your personal perception. But I think you you have a way of delivering what you do and who you are. That’s, you know, very comforting. I mean, it’s easy.

Nannette

All the C’s I know. It’s very kind.

Clint

But there’s a ton of hard work put in there.

John

Oh yeah, sure.

Nannette

Yeah, knowledge. I mean…

John

I mean, I think that Al and Nannette would agree with me that I’m drastically different person now than I was whenever I worked with them.

Clint

I think you’re probably the hardest personality in my book to drag out of your natural state.

John

For sure. Because we don’t get we don’t get emotional and we don’t really care about people.

Clint

You’re in a weird corner, man because…

Nannette

Because you totally care about people.

John

I do, right? Because I, because…

Al

Is that a personal crusade?

John

Now, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Al

Our lord and savior.

Nannette

Quit talking, Daniel…

John

There are some people that I don’t care about, right. And there are things where I struggle, right. Small talk is a big one, right? You know, we got to build some bonding and rapport with people, like whenever we’re first turned, start a relationship. And that’s your that’s your sweet spot. Like, that’s where you two guys hang out. Right and you love it. Nan, Nan loves it as well. But man, I hate it. Right. And so I have to turn, and most of my networking. If I’m just having kind of like a Hey, I don’t know you. You don’t know me. But we met like, let’s chat about business. My first 20 minutes is not about anything other than like, what do you do outside of work? Because if we can’t get on the same page, and this is so ridiculous. If you don’t have a passion in your life that makes you seek to get better. I have a hard time…

Nannette

Connecting

John

Connecting with you.

Nannette

Me too.

Al

That’s 90% of the freaking world chief.

Nannette

But well, this…

Al

And I’m talking to everybody out there.

Nannette

No, the C and the S, ugh, irritating.

John

Right because I’ve got I’ve got five things that I’m working on at like any given point, right? My business, martial arts. I’m a bicyclist. I play poker.

Al

Okay, but here’s my redub. Good for you.

John

Sure. No, absolutely.

Al

My point is, is that a lot of times we go out to people, and and they don’t. They have nothing.

John

Oh yeah, it’s a struggle.

Al

It is a struggle. Right.

Nannette

But you don’t have to choose everybody. You just choose the people you choose.

John

Good point.

Al

Good point. Yeah.

John

Right. Because…

Nannette

You’re acting like everyone you have to choose. It’s like, no.

John

It’s really only been super recently that I’m okay with the idea of people not liking me.

Nannette

Right.

Clint

But do you care?

John

Man, it’s really interesting because…

Nannette

I’m an S and I don’t care.

John

On some points. I take you or someone not liking me as failure. Right? Or being wrong. That’s interesting. It’s super. I mean, and as I get older, right, I’m almost 40, I care less and less about that. Right? 40 is getting older. I’m not saying I’m old. I’m saying I’m getting older. Right? I’m 40 years old. But it’s, it’s it’s an ongoing struggle, right? Because I got to build rapport with people. And if you don’t have something that makes you want to get better, then I have a hard time relating to you and I kind of don’t care.

Clint

Okay, so let’s take, let’s take that rapport, put it in a process. Does that make it easier?

John

Absolutely. Because all I’m doing now and my bonding report is trying to figure out where you are on this scale that we’re talking about here.

Clint

So that’s a that’s a really good point, to the viewers and listeners.

Al

You’re a good faker is what you’re saying.

Clint

But okay, but it’s a it’s an essential set step in your process that you have to do you know that you have to do that now. So if you make it a half to do in a process, and you make it, say analytical again, if you make it in that process where it’s a step that I can’t go to step two, without step one, that’s a lot easier for you to deal as a C.

John

Oh I love that. Give me all the silver bullets. It’s all for everything.

Clint

So if you’re a C out there listening, and you’re struggling with a step like that, realize that it’s essential to your process.

John

Turn it into a task. Yeah, right. Because before that, before I realized, all I really need to do is figure out how you listen and how you communicate, how you visualize things and how you want to get information. I would struggle with it. Like, Hey, what do you do last weekend? I don’t care what you did last weekend, right?

Nannette

Don’t ever ask anyone that again.

John

Well, I know, I mean, like, it doesn’t really make any sense. But in in the website company, I did a lot of networking, right, which is like a lot of coffees and you meet people and you got to get them out and then try to get into the referral kind of network and stuff like that. And I would have all these conversations people and I’m just like, dreading it. Like Oh, Jesus, why am I here? This is brutal. And then, I’m not really sure when it changed.

Al

Coffee doesn’t get you drunk. Just gets you more excited about not liking it, right?

John

It’s crazy. Yeah.

Al

Reach across and tear your throat out.

John

Nothing aggressive, aggressive.

My constant thing is like, is this worth my time? Okay, right. Yeah. And my my partner, Melissa and I argue all the time because I don’t mow my own yard. And in her opinion, being a homeowner, I should mow the yard. And I’m like, this is nonsense. My time is better spent resting on on a Saturday to make sure that I can be on my A-game Monday through Friday. And I don’t get to do that if I’m mowing my yard.

Al

On Saturday. 36 hours from Monday.

John

Damn right.

Al

I gotta lay on the couch babe.

John

Damn, right. Damn, right.

Al

That’s more like me is, I’m like, but here’s the deal. I don’t even justify it. I’m like, I’m laying down. So what, hate me if you will.

John

I learned a lot of like, my current money concept from you about like, whenever we work together.

Clint

That was a mistake.

Al

Best advice he ever got.

Clint

You should’ve talked to his accountant.

Nannette

Should’ve talked to Nan.

John

Al will spend money to make money, right? And if there’s ROI there, he’s game on for it. Yeah. And it wasn’t until Al and I worked together that some of my monetary concept shifted, and it shifted again, with even more so working with Geof. But before that, I came. I mean, I was poor as a kid, like very, very, very poor. So I mean, like, I like I always had shoes, I’m not trying to make it out to be like, we were, you know, poverty level but…

Al

And I can verify what he’s saying, and go ahead with what you’re saying.

John

And so I came from a very fixed mindset, right, which is part of this whole idea why I thought that personal development woowoo bullshit, right. And if you talk to a lot of C’s, they’re gonna feel the same way that I am. Because it’s harder to get us emotional about improvement, because I don’t need you to tell me how to improve, I’m gonna go find my own way. And that guy is going to be right, because I vetted them. So until you get to that point, to where you realize that like, hey, someone else could have it better than you. Because I don’t necessarily know that every C sees someone else and goes looking for them as a way to improve themselves. I think that I might be kind of an outlier in that area.

Clint

Yeah, I agree. I think as we kind of wind down here on the C personality spectrum, I’d like to get some of your hot topics, Doc, Nannette, myself. How do you recognize this a C?

Al

The glasses and…

The pens, right?

Clint

There’s no other personality that’s gonna wear that.

Nannette

Yeah. For me, I always here are details, they need to know specific…

Clint

Questions, tons of questions.

John

Tons of questions.

They want details, facts? They’re not just like, hey, how’s the weather? They wouldn’t know. They want to know real things.

John

I’m kind of a hard person to be friends with from being really honest. You can come to me with…

Clint

I agree 100%.

John

Of course you do. You can come to me with like, an idea that’s half baked. And and expect me to be like, Oh, okay. Like, like my sister, who? She’s a great person. I’m glad she’s my sister. We she’s not a C. So she comes to me with these plans. And I’m like, Okay, how you gonna make that happen? I’m not sure yet. Are you concerned? No, not really, what happens if I didn’t go well? I haven’t thought that far ahead. And then I get frustrated, and she gets frustrated. And then she, my sister is probably just a huge S. Yeah, she’s a huge S.

Clint

So hopes and dreams all the time.

John

Hopes and dreams and love. And I don’t really want conflict and things like that.

Clint

Yes. So as, I would say that, as this world can turn, turns towards a corporate structure, we talked about this a little bit earlier, you may be dealing with a decision maker out there who may be a D and I, S, or a C. But most of the time, at least in my profession, there’s always a C behind the doors. Always, always.

John

Don’t look at the man behind the curtain, right?

Clint

There’s always a C that tells somebody you can or you can’t do something financially. And in that regard, there’s a lot of times that I’m not selling to the guy that I think’s the decision maker, because truly he’s not, right, it’s the C behind closed doors, telling him that, hey, look, guy, you can say all you want, but you don’t have the finances for this to make that decision. You can’t do this on job, that change orders not approved, blah, blah, blah, and that’s not coming from that guy’s brain. That’s coming from data produced behind himself. Oftentimes, I find myself dealing at the end of the day, negotiations, with a high C, who hasn’t been a part of the process for six, seven months, negotiations. And now all of a sudden, I’m sitting in front of this guy in a conference room, telling me that my price is too high. And here’s why. So it’s really interesting that, I think, think out there that, that a high C is more involved than we would all like to think. I think there’s no yeah, and almost every decision making process somewhere down the road.

John

Your CFO is pretty much always going to be always I see probably also your CTO, you know, if you’re selling…

Clint

Probably probably a CS or an SC or, you know, maybe a deal or a CD, or a CD, because he’s in a C level position that may push them up there as D. So when I when I’m talking to a C and I recognize it, it’s always based on the questioning. Right? So I say something off handed, and I see will always question that. Always. He’ll say, jeez, how did you come to that conclusion? How did you make that statement? What facts do you have to back that up? That that’s a that’s off putting for me? Because I said it. So it must be true. Right? And and I get this I got I kind of get some pushback. What I would say is when when you recognize that treating somebody, especially if you’re a D, take that with a grain of salt, because they’re asking a lot of good questions that you may not know the answers to. And that’s okay. Check that ego. Go back, find the facts out and and you can always you can always kind of see a C, when he says, I don’t know, I’ll get back to you. That’s a great, that’s one of the greatest statements that I’ve ever learned in sales process ever. I don’t know the answer to that question right now. Maybe in a day, I’ll get back to you, when I go research it. It’s a lot of people look at that as a get out of jail free card. But if you truly mean what you’re saying, you’re really going to go dig into it. C’s always do that to you. Yeah, that’s one of the only personality traits on this, this block that will do that. Right? Because and I’ll fake the funk, a D will tell you exactly know, I’m right, you’re wrong. And hold this line in the sand. And this will be like I should I don’t know, everybody’s right.

John

So one of the things that if you’re selling to a C is you have to understand the fact that they’ve got their own process. Right. And they’re not winging it, right. Like when when I make a purchase, I think of myself as a pretty easy sell. Right? Because I’ve already come into the thing informed, right? So like, when I go into Best Buy, Rei, or something, like I already know what I’m going to buy, right? So when like, hey, do you need help? No, I’ll find it. I know exactly what I’m looking for. And then the polar opposite of that is whenever I’m just initially shopping. I will go waste everybody’s time. I’m the worst about it. Which one do you like? Why do you like that one? How long have you guys had it and all this other stuff? Because I’m fact finding and data collecting? Now if you try to put pressure on me to like close me right there, you’re going to blow it up and I’m gonna tell you exactly what you want to hear. And then I’m going to leave and never call you again.

Clint

That’s why you’re always on speed dial. Hey, John. What’s what phone and researching lately?

Al

I was about to say the same thing.

John

I get the oddest requests because people just expect me to know everything. And what’s weird is I normally have an opinion, right? It’s not always..

Clint

Last year, you bought a hoodie that took you six months to research.

John

Yeah, that’s my favorite example about like, how C’s buy, right. So I was gonna go buy a hoodie.

Al

Like hands up, don’t shoot, Trayvon hoodie?

John

A hooded sweatshirt, right? And I had seven tabs open from like different manufacturers like Carhartt and all these other things for…

Al

Can you say Carhartt?

John

Of course, I’m not wearing them.

Al

Because?

John

Because I want to make the best decision.

Al

About a hoodie?

John

About everything. Cars, hoodies, shoes, bicycles.

Nannette

Saturday mornings after coffee, huh? What’s that? You only wear a hoodie after coffee on Saturday morning.

Clint

Why don’t you just buy six hoodies and see which one fits, take the rest back.

John

That’s a bad decision. Bad process. Can’t do it. I don’t I don’t work that way. I’m going to do my research. Right. And I’m researching stuff like how long is the warranty right, how quickly do I…

Al

About a hoodie!?

John

You laugh but one of the ones that I almost bought…

Al

You’re correct.

John

There was one that I almost bought, it’s called, it’s called the 10 year hoodie you can look it up they have a 10 year warranty on it. So any any rips, the scratches and anything else? I do.

if I’m gonna pay 100 bucks for a hoodie, it better well last 10 years.

Al

Can I stop you a second?

John

Of course.

Al

So on condoms. How do you view that?

John

There are things that are not part of the process.

Al

Just checking.

Nannette

If you’re gonna analyze anything, I think it would be a condom. Thank you.

Clint

There is a preference.

John

There is a pressure to where it just doesn’t make sense to do the research. Right? Like, like so like, Okay, cool. Right? In, you know, with something like condoms like, like, you know, the brands that I’m like, I’m never gonna gamble on the unknown.

No, no, like, I’m gonna get the Trojan.

Al

Right. And another plug…

But there is that threshold but you know, cars like gas mileage and maintenance cost and cost of ownership and all that stuff.

Nannette

So that wins over a hoodie, no doubt.

John

But so to go back to kind of wrapping this thing up, if you were C, right, you have to understand that prospects buy for their reasons, not your reasons, right? I used to get furious when I was a banker and was selling investments, right? Because this was in 2010, I have a baby face. Now I had a really baby face, then, had a guy told me that he had socks older than me. That’s right, I’m a vampire, I’m Paul Rudd. And I. So this is in 2011. Right. So the market is gone. Everything is crap, right? You can’t get any kind of return in a banking product. So I can sell investments. So we had some products that were generating, you know, 2% versus, you know, point 0003%. And people wouldn’t want to jump through the hoops. And I would get so mad, it’s like I can make you more money in this thing that is as secure as the thing that you’re in. But they didn’t see value in that. Right. So they buy for their own reasons. So don’t get caught up in the logic, right, take the time to understand what’s driving them to make a buying decision. And reference that throughout your conversations like that, that that’s the biggest point of improvement I can offer to a C, is just understand that it’s not about you.

Al

Awareness, right, that we’re talking about that we’re trying to push forward to everybody out there is that we all sit here entrenched in who we are, right? And you’re you’re well aware of who you are, you just know where you need to slide and what you need to be aware of when you deal with the rest of us. Right?

John

Absolutely.

Right. Like my conversations with the three of you when we’re all one on one are drastically different. Right? Because…

Al

Cool. You and I do tongue right?

Nannette

The bottom line is, there’s another name for a condom.

John

I gotta let Al run with his stories, right? I can’t I can’t show up with too many details. Like is this being taken care of? Yes it is.

Al

Just be quiet.

Nannette

And to end this, D, would you have anything you’d like to share with us?

Clint

I got all kinds of shit.

Nannette

You have 30 seconds.

Clint

Look, I got all the time I want. My world, you’re living in it.

John

Alright, so let’s be consistent real quick and make sure we cover two things that are super important. All right. So if you’re a C selling other people, just understand that it’s not about you, it’s about them and what they see value in. Take time to figure that out. Because it might not be anything in your arsenal of things you’re prepared to talk about. One instance of selling a cell phone case to a woman. And that was, I was like, do you want the Otter Box? Do you want this? You want this and everything else? All she wanted was a red one. Yeah. It’s all she wanted. Right? So I spend 45 minutes trying to sell her on the various features, benefits, like barely there, lots of protection, everything else. And she’s like, can I get it in red? Yeah, absolutely. I’ve got 17 red ones, which one do you want? But it wasn’t until that moment, okay, had that point that she was willing to listen, like. Absolutely. Why? Why is this important? What are you looking for? What do you see is valuable? And let’s talk about those things. The other side is that if you’re in consulting, which is kind of the broader label for what I do, is just to understand that no one starts the day thinking about hiring a consultant to come in and tell them how to make their business more efficient. So you got to be patient and play the long game. Right.

Clint

And one of the things I would say about especially a high C is that don’t stop asking questions. That’s your biggest strong, stronger point. That’s your biggest strong, just make sure that you’re asking the right ones for the right reason. Right? What do you really digging for. If you’re just digging for your own knowledge, that may not always work in a sales situation. But if you’re asking questions, to get through your process and also their needs, then it’s really important don’t lose that trade. I don’t think anybody up here is telling you to do that as a high C. Once again, we always talk about biggest strength, big biggest weakness, same thing. Question questioning. I mean, you can wear me out with some questions, man, and I will blow you off so fast, because I’m just tired answering stupid ass questions. But if they hold hold value, and you’re asking, especially to me, if you’re asking for a reason. I’m all in and it makes me interested.

John

And that’s part of, part of that awareness, right? Because I will get into those details. And it’s such an intellectual conversation, that it limits my ability to sell, right? Because one of the things we all know is that you got to get someone emotional, right? Buying is an emotional process, right. And we can qualify that just by looking at the cars that everyone drives, no one needs a Lexus. But if everyone was just buying the thing that got them from A to B, we’d all have Corollas or Kias or something like that. But cars are, cars are huge emotional thing. And I have a hard time keeping people emotional, because I want to talk about the details and the ROI. And why is this important?

Clint

So what if you ask emotional questions?

John

For sure. Right. And that’s part of my refinement loop is how can I, how can I take this very analytical question, strip it out to an emotional question that actually moves the conversation forward.

Clint

But it has to be there for a reason. Yeah. And you have to have that in your process.

Anybody else got anything for John as a C.

Al

I just want to say anybody that heard their label mentioned tonight, we appreciate your sponsorship, we’re looking for you guys to call us and we’ll say your name bunch more times.

John

For sure.

This is awesome. This was I was I was pretty nervous about this episode, honestly, because I like…

Al

Dude, I knew you’re gonna nail it. Yeah, you are more prepared than any of us up here in a very cool way. Yeah, I, when I saw you walk in, I knew is gonna be good show.

Clint

Yeah, we all showed up half lit for ours. No notes.

John

Awesome. So…

Al

Yeah, you’re delicious today. So yeah, well done.

John

Awesome.

So we’ll be back next week.

Clint

You know, that kind of rounds out the DISC. Yeah, we’ve kind of went through us as people.

John

Next week, we’re diving into various sales topics.

Al

I was gonna say going forward, you kind of know, if you’ve listened to all the episodes, you’re going to understand a little bit about each one of us. And from here, we talk about the real day in day out, going forward. And we’re going to start fielding questions. We’re gonna be bringing real life examples of, you know, serious shit that everybody faces when you’re trying to make a living in the sales arena.

John

That’s right. So go follow us on all social media. Everything is at Sales Throwdown. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. We’re gonna have some sweet merch pretty soon up on the website, that’s gonna be exciting. So if you want a cup or a shirt…

Clint

But we want to give you the tools. Seriously, guys, I mean, when we look forward, we’re looking to give you the tools that you need to go slay it, to make the money that you want to make, to solve the problems that you want to solve, to bring your success to the next level.

John

Yeah, you’re gonna, I think you said this Al. But whenever we were first planning this is, hopefully you find yourself in one of us. Right? You know, you might relate to Nannette versus Clint, right, and so then in you know, seven episodes when we’re talking about how to ask for referrals, right the way that Nanette is going to talk about it, it’s gonna make way more sense than the way I talk about it or the way Clint talks about it cuz that’s not gonna make any sense to you. Right? So it’s appreciation for…

Clint

It’ll make sense to somebody.

John

Absolutely. But let’s be honest, right? Like those D’s are not coachable, usually.

Nannette

So next week.

John

Yeah, so follow us on social media, subscribe on the YouTube channel.

Nannette

Next week is our first sponsor, I will be wearing a T shirt. It’s called 19 Machine with the hottest singer on the cover.

Al

Yeah, we do know good bands. Yes.

John

Paul’s our sound guy.

Paul is our sound guy. He has a band. It was apparently a really good show that I missed out on. He’s responsible for the stage. If you’re watching us the glory, glorious audio coming through your speakers.

Clint

19 Machine, if anybody didn’t hear.

Probably still lick the microphone, take your shirt off.

John

We’ll see everybody next week. Y’all have a good week. Go sell something,

Al

John. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Well done.