Episode 56: Keeping Up Momentum with a Smaller Team

Episode 56

 

Let’s get ready to Throwdown!

Welcome to the show everybody. Sales Throwdown, we are back. We’re talking from our home still because we’re still in the midst of a pandemic. And last week, we talked about a situation where Clint was struggling. And I had another situation that happened to a friend of mine and wanted to kind of get everybody’s opinions on it. And long story short, this guy is a insurance producer. So he sells insurance and part of the process of selling is actually taking policies to market, right. And so there’s account executives, there’s a, there’s a back office team that helps you. And his back office team has quit. That, they’ve been poached by a competitor. So he has some pressure to produce, right? And he wants to keep his momentum. But he can’t really bring in a whole lot of deals right now, because there’s not the team to support and actually give them the right process. So he was like, What would you do in this situation? So I’m curious, how do you guys handle this? What do you think about it? What’s your first thing?

Well, does it make? So let me let me get get some clarification. How big was his staff? And how did somebody poach all of them at one time? I mean, it seems a little odd to begin with.

So good question. So my understanding is that it wasn’t the whole back office team, but it was two people who were crucial because they were attached to most of this guy’s work. So the person who this is going to fall on now is kind of a manager. So they’re a little bit, I think, probably struggling to get the roles replaced because two people left. So I don’t know that that there’s like a direct handoff to someone else and you can keep going at the same rate. That wasn’t the gist that I got from, from my friend. So

I like this entr-, I like this problem because it’s a it hits home to me recently because I just lost my senior estimator three weeks ago. out of, you know, no hard feelings. No, no hatred, just left to another state for a better deal to retire. Right? crucial, crucial to my process, much like it sounds like these people are. And what you realize is how much those people do for you that you don’t even know. But it also allows you some freedom to change some procedures in the way you do things. Right now you’re getting to, ┬áif you’re lucky enough to hire on some new people or bring people up within the company. Things that were mistakes. But you couldn’t really change because of the seniority. Or because of how you’ve done things for so long. It allows you some freedom to be able to change the processes to the new. So that that’s one positive out of the out of the deal that I can think of. The other side of it, too is, you know, if you work an extra, and I’m kind of finding this right now, if I work a few extra hours, and I have everybody else load up a little bit on the duties that that guy performed. We’re making it right now. Right? Do I need to hire that person back? Or do we all need to maximize our performance to a certain point? Or world? You know, 110% we need to hire that person down the road. That’s, that’s another kind of, I saw a head bob by.

His little head.

But yeah, so I mean, I’m just trying to look at some, some positive things cuz it just happened to me. A few positive things that came out of what just recently had happened in that scenario?

Well, what’s really interesting about this situation is the way that the team is compensated, right. So for a long time, this office didn’t have producers on it, you know, some turnover it happened. And so what had happened was they had made an adjustment to paying out these account executives to to really facilitate more farming and cross selling. So the back office team, which is supposed to help the producers is also being incentivized at a higher rate, to farm their own deals with their own, things like that. So I view it as a really big opportunity as well, because now you can build a team that’s going to be focused around helping the producers produce as opposed to just a bunch of an account executives who were really good at farming in amongst each other and want to work their deals as opposed to like actually helping the sales team, which is what their role is, this isn’t like me being like, oh, everyone’s got to help support sales. That’s what this role is really built to do. But of course, they have other incentivisations to work their own stuff because that pays them out at a higher rate

So so so what you’re saying is these people the front sales guys sell and then when you say produce they’re the producers yeah but the back office then upsells decline into other issues and work certain accounts. Yeah. Is that the division of labor?

Or produces the necessary information for the sales guy to close the deal.

Wait, but yeah, but how did they go get extra grease because it sounds like one’s an admin position but then you just simply said they have their own farming they can do inside so they can sell as well it sounds like

yeah, so what had happened was you know, when you’re when you’re an insurance producer, you’re building a book of business that you more or less own. So if you leave the company then the company inherits those those accounts as house accounts. So these these account executives can do renewals and take things out to market yes things for like the house accounts and that pays them higher than the cut.

Their helping me as a producer. Yeah, well, that’s a little F-ed up on the pay scale. It seems like deincentivizes new business from within. Now, if my income’s tied to, and I’m a headhunter, and I’m looking for the next, you know, I’m the sales guy. But if I’ve got my back office that gets more off of working on the easier stuff that’s already in house. Yeah, that’s management issues right there. In my opinion, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s really screwing the company as a whole in my opinion.

And to be honest, that’s why they left.

You think so?

Yes.

Because they because they didn’t want all that money, or Yeah.

Because Because it’s not guaranteed money. It’s, it’s you’ve got to try to get all this stuff done for extra money. We’re giving you this kind of book of business at a probably a really low salary.

Okay, good point. I agree with Clint on that one. That Yeah, I’ve got a hustle. Then I’ve got a hustle. And if I just got you know, if I could just concentrate. I don’t want to be a salesperson. And my extra grease is, Yeah,

Let me say in construction one of the hardest sales to make is the sales guy for the construction job goes out he sells a new building they put it up let’s say let’s say a hotel they build the hotel now the service department in your own company has their own salespeople. They’ve got to go try to sell into that hotel so that your competitors don’t get in there and take the ongoing service right the right service Right. Exactly gonna tell you our carpet turnovers maintenance issue. Yeah, that is that is a tough freakin sale boys. I it is tough because those people just spent a wad of cash. They might have spent all the end to put the building up. They can’t even talk about if things break. Why would it break? You guys just put it in. You know what I mean?

So I totally get that right that upsell side of the business is tough even though you were handed a golden goose so to speak, right? You’re handed this book of business. That’s Not easy sales, and you got 50 grand a year and then promise them all this commission on the back end bullshit.

Well, yeah, the other thing is that for once upon a time, it kind of made sense, right? Because like this is a call center, right? You know, this, this office, right? So incentivizing the account executives to go off and do this thing. And they’re doing fairly well at it right. And then they got a new some new producers in and one of my friends is one of those guys and they’re starting to do really well. But now they’re all these account executives are are overwhelmed because they have to take this stuff out to market because they’re a broker. So they’re going out trying to get the best deal that they possibly can on this coverage, which requires these these account executives that have the relationships and everything else like this. So it made sense. At one point, it kind of doesn’t make sense now. And with two, two of the four people leaving, well, if I was if I was, you know running that thing, I would be like, Okay, awesome. We’re changing the comp plan. If that means you need to go then then that’s fine. But you know, we’re trying to do that. around our producers. So,

But but this is a this is going to be a domino effect inside that company right? Because now your two leading producers just left right the two guys.

So hold on a second. These are not producers these are like like Back Office account executives, okay.

But I mean, they produce they produce stuff right for your company you can’t survive maternally mapped to two people leave right? For a better deal. If you don’t think that the other two that strive to be those best two, the third and the fourth, aren’t trying to find those positions as they left. They’re doing one of two things either I’m gonna slide into this position unearned. Right? Because they need me, or I’m going to go try to make that deal because there’s a there’s a market for it out there now. Right? That’s a tough spot to be in. So when one domino falls, guys watch out, you know that they tend to fall.

How big is this company that we’re talking about? The brokerage firm?

They’re huge. They’re okay. I’ve got

They’ve got some redundancy then.

Oh yeah, of course. It’s not a small shop.

Okay, so they may have a method to their madness where they can, maybe, that, you know, they.

I mean, any any big organization

This can’t be the first time they’re probably pretty easier to adapt to change.

Well, that, so sure, right and with a big company, there’s cushion and things like this, but the My friend is like, what do I do, because I can’t really bring in a whole lot of deals right now because I’m not gonna be able to work them, you know, stuffs gonna get fallen in the cracks. I’m not really sure. And part of this, like vetting process and going to market he’s not allowed to do right like it’s like clearly defined that they don’t want him doing these things.

So in other words, companies this law this large, but doesn’t have the ability to slide somebody in to help him with his business slip.

I mean, I think they’re going to try but you know,

Wow, that’s unique.

So this is a prime example of do more with less. I mean, just the like, absolute definition of it. Right. And you, you have to now When you could do, let’s say 60 deals a week, right? You bring in 60 new opportunities and close, let’s say 10 of them, right? Not a bad hit ratio, right? Because you have the ability to go out and get 60 now you don’t you have half of your ability, or maybe even less than that. Now, you can only do 20 to 30 deals a week, but you still need to win 10 right. So, qualifications of your customers qualifications of the deals, you don’t have the back end power to just bring all this stuff and throw it to the company and say everybody get this done for me so that we win ten. Now you’ve got to win 50, 60% of the things you bring in that’s a whole nother that’s a whole nother scenario.

Your targeting is gonna be much tighter.

Let me ask you this john now is he presented his leads I mean, is he just a grinder with a the company’s large enough we do all this marketing and so here’s your set of leads. These are the leads

Always be closing.

The way that it works is this company works very, very old school, right? They bring in lots and lots of like brand new college graduated people whose family had got connections, and then go get it skip, you know, kind of deal and you get a base for like a year and then it starts to like, step off a little bit as you’re supposedly supposed to be growing your commissions and stuff. But it’s very, very old school, which, you know, there’s not anything bad about that. But the the thing that I told him was that okay, I wouldn’t be super focused on direct to clients that but I would be doubling down on my like, you know, development of like referral partners and stuff like this, because he, he can partner really well with like, well, like wealth managers, right? Because, you know, they’re, he’s on the personalized side. So they want to talk about risk. And so all of this stuff, like kind of makes sense. I’m like, man, I would keep the foot on the gas around that and, you know, just make sure that you know, you’re doing what’s necessary on on the frontline stuff, but I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t be trying to bog myself down with a bunch of work I’m not gonna be able to get through the process.

So can you I have a couple questions for you in this sure vision. What What is the position of this guy that brought this issue to you? What is his title. What does he do?

Um, so he’s a sales sales guy, outside sales. Okay?

So he lost, he lost his workforce in the back to really drive this stuff home.

He lost he lost two out of the four and and and they support all of DFW. So

Okay, let me ask you this is can you mention the name of the firm?

I’m not gonna mention the name of the firm, no.

Okay, now I got not gonna do, nope no.

So so something that we haven’t really hit on is the underlying reason of why these people were just so up to leave for a few dollars an hour or more or you know, in my business, always a few dollars an hour or more, right? What What happened, what kind of environment that they work in every day, that as soon as somebody gave them a better deal they hopped, right because, because I’ve hopped…

Not one but two hopped, but to go to do they go to the same company.

Yeah, the story. Okay, so the story that I’ve heard is that company came along, was talking to, and who knows if if they reached out to them or if the company reached out to them or who initiated what, but essentially a company came along, offered this person a better deal than they were currently getting, which, according to my information was, you know, solid, you know, over six figures of income. And then they said, okay, cool, come work with us, and you can build out your team. Is there anybody else you would like to bring with you? And they mentioned somebody else. And so then they made them an offer, and they’re not no noncompetes they just walk. They’re not salespeople, man. So so they’re just account executives. So a lot of people don’t, don’t actually put account executives under like NDA, which I kind of think is is a bad thing if you’re concerned about that. I mean, at the end of the day, it’s hard to move stuff around from company to company, but

you know, because it may be unique to To the industry, this is not a practice so sure.

But even then with with your NDA isn’t all that stuff like somebody still has to prosecute, right?

Absolutely. Yeah, that’s like the same thing as like, like copyright infringement, you know, like, like, just because you go through all of those hoops doesn’t mean that people aren’t gonna rip you off. It just means that you can sue them if you choose to do so. That’s right. And same, the same thing with an NDA.

And the juice isn’t worth the squeeze most of the time.

Absolutely. Right. So if if this was you, what, what what would you be doing right now? Right?

I could tell you, one I would tell you that I’m hit on earlier is like, okay, all the processes that I couldn’t do because of these senior people, right, then, hey, don’t bring me especially backdoor people. You’re bringing me this deal. I don’t want it like this. I want it like this because this is the way I’m used to seeing it for 15 years. You have the ability now to change that. Which can be a great, great thing and might actually make you more producing. The other side of it too, is Man, you really have to treat people you got to train people and treat people to want to stay with you no matter what the offer is out there. And, and I’ve found that in the, I’ve found that…

I agree with Clint. I agree with Clint. Yeah, you’re on the right track, keep talking.

I’ve literally left companies for, you know, more money. And I got there and the money that I earned more wasn’t worth the problems that they had. Right. And I’ve left I’ve left companies for less money and went to more challenges because that’s just who I am and, and found way more gratification in that project. And, and I’ll tell you like the people that leave you, they’re leaving you for reasons. They’re not, you know, and right now, it’s a hard time because people are leaving you for money, and they will absolutely do it. But I will tell you, you need to take a hard look, if people do this to you, especially your inner office, your core people. I’m telling you, they leave because they don’t feel appreciated. They feel like you’re getting all the You’re the quarterback right? as a salesperson, you’re kind of the quarterback of the football team. The linemen are doing all the heavy lifting, they’re protecting your ass. They’re making you do all the, you know, you’re out there, running a gun and playing golf three times a week winning these deals getting paid. You’re pulling up in the new Mercedes. And these guys are driving, you know, Pintos. Like this happens, right? This is not a phenomenon. This is, this is what happens. And you got to take care of those people, man, and they’re, they’re your they’re your workforce.

I have the first employee I ever hired 25 years ago, and I’m proud to say that I say it all the time. I mean, you know, and I have had one employee retire that was with me for 20 something years. And yeah, that longevity is the success to a company my size, right? I cannot do me turnover happens, right? But it’s usually because I want it to happen not because they want to go there. Oh, they’re trying to figure out how to stay keep Their job, you know, because we, you know, there is a value to putting effort into your employees and the work environment. Because if you’re in a caustic environment, right, I mean, that’s a hard day for everybody to get up and go to.

Right? Yeah.

And I’ll tell you this, I’m going to give you a little motivational speech here. But I refuse to play a football game because I love football. And that’s kind of my sport. I refuse to play on the same team with 10 other guys, 11 of us total, I refuse to play with 10 other people that don’t want to be there. I just i’d refuse to play that game. I would rather play with three people and get my ass kicked every day with people that are in all in no matter the cost.

I agree, I agree.

Okay, so so hold on there, right, because I think we’re coming up on on a on a point here. How do you differ because you often talk about the fact Well, if you don’t like it, you know, then maybe we’re not supposed to work together.

To my point exactly.

So where do you Because because I do think that there’s a lot about company culture that, you know, could be addressed and changed, especially right now with like everybody working remotely from home. And, you know, I’m, I’m a big advocate for for good company culture and like showing people that they’re, you know, meaningful to the team and everything like this. But some people just, you know, it’s either not alignment or not the right time or not the right person.

Sure, sure. Not everybody’s a fit for that, you know, yeah.

But ultimately,

Cut those people out though, and be okay with it. Right?

Right. 100% and to that point, like, we did that before COVID happened, and had I had foreseen COVID happening, I probably wouldn’t have cut them because we needed the bandwidth, right. But at the time, they were poison. They were just poison. And the attitude is wrong. Everything they did was was just not what we wanted. And I didn’t want to reward those people the same as I reward the people that come in every day with their head held high. And so we cut that, right, we cut those people and that was based on performance and attitude and A lot of other things it wasn’t had it didn’t have anything to do with the pandemic. And then the pandemic happens a month later. And it’s like, gosh, I really wish I had those bodies because I’m now the people out there knocking on doors. So I got to come up with a new strategy, but I don’t regret it by any means because God can you imagine a down culture with down people Holy shit, I mean, I can’t even fathom that.

You know, if if you and you have got what 22, 24 employees some something in that, that range and, and if they’re not all rowing in the same direction, right? If we’re not all, you know, working, our processes hand in hand. So we get through the day with the patients or we get the materials out to the hospital or we get the radiology rates. We can break down pretty quickly, right? Because everybody plays a key part in all of that. So if you’re working in a small to medium sized business, you don’t have a ton of redundancy, right? So if all the cogs don’t fit well together, man as a manager or as sales guy and you turn around and this isn’t working or that isn’t working. Wow, man, you’re just making for a Longest Day along last week, and, you know, a long career.

And, and also I’ll say this, like you. And we have to do this too, because like, when you’re a really big company, sometimes you forget where you came from, right? You forget when it was just two people, a sales guy and an operations guy that started a company and worked 130 hours a week. And now all of a sudden, you’re let’s say you’re a billion dollar organization and you have departments that handle all of that stuff that you used to do on a Sunday morning at three in the morning. You forget that right? So now everybody’s just working 35, 40 hour weeks, just you know, can’t wait till Friday, that mentality sets in that complacency. Right. And when things like this happen, in my mind, it’s like, Is everybody at max capacity and we say here all the time is before we hire this person is everybody at max capacity, because if they’re not, we need to get everybody there first, right? And you know

I do the, I do the same thing. I do the same thing I sit down and I say, you know, can somebody else do part of this so that we don’t have to hire someone. And then when they’re at max capacity when we are, you know, you know, when we’re working extra hours when I see overtime because I look at overtime. And you know, when I say overtime is, well, I’d have to hire another person. So that’d be 40 hours a regular time is overtime past that or do it. So man, you do a balance of the books. What if we incentivize extended hours, did some flex days off, I mean, you start getting creative guys, because if you think the old business model wins this today, you have no,

I can’t have, I can’t have 30 engineers in an office building with 30 secretaries sitting out there outside the door. That was that’s gone, what 60 years ago, like that, that’s gone, right? And you just got to put these people on, you know, On the task that they have at hand and get it done, and when you get to the point, right, everybody has a breaking point, you take that little white flag and you waive it right. And you let me know. And I will constantly check in with people like, hey, you’re saying you can’t get this done? Is this you waving the white flag? Yeah, absolutely. Here’s why. Because I have this and this and this. No problem. If I take this off your plate and shuffle it over here, does that free you up to get this done at the best of your ability? And if the answer is yes, I will absolutely take that off your plate. All right. But if this is you being lazy, that’s a whole nother ballgame.

Yeah, so we’re going to go through his process and figure out because as as is with everybody, right, you know, once you get a little bit busy, you start putting more and more on the support team if you haven’t, and stuff like that. So he’s probably putting some stuff on the support team that we can pull back and own as part of like his process and so that way, absolutely. The stuff that that does come through can get work and it’s not the burden that that it might sometimes be, because, you know, you know, you’ve got you’ve got good solid people and you’ve got some trust, you know, you know that they can, you know, get stuff across the finish line for you. But if you’re the salesperson, right, and you want to keep the momentum and you want to make sure there’s not getting complacent, like where do you put your focus right now?

On qualify, qualify, qualify, qualify, qualify hard? Because every deal that you bring in has to make it through the process of the back end that you don’t have anymore. Right? Yeah. So if you’re bringing in shit deals because once once you could you brought into ship deal they process that you didn’t get it, no big deal. But now everything you do you have half the capacity and probably a less efficient half capacity. Now what you got to bring in has to close, or a very high probability.

I don’t know. I don’t know the dynamic of this guy’s business. Is this guy successful? I mean, it’s he is he is he is he a grinder I mean to see, like, Hey, I’m so busy out there selling and closing deals. I’ve got to have this Is this a security blanket? Because first thing that pops into my mind is what can you outsource? What you know how much more workload can the other two pick up? And does he have to grind 60 deals to get his 10? Because Clint brought up a good point. If he qualifies better, but maybe it’s a numbers game, right? In the insurance business, I can see where that’s just a grind. So I say, I would be looking at outsourcing, I would be looking at, you know, what is it? You know, what’s the company’s position on this little, you know, situation? Um, yeah, there’s a couple of variables here. And I would think, though, if, if, if he can salvage this, he may actually come out feeling better at the end of the day, you know, I mean, sometimes these are great opportunities to reflect on your process and how to shorten it or what you know how you can just, you know, you know, break it up into smaller bites. Yeah, there’s a lot of different ways to approach it.

At this point. It’s an attitude. It’s already happened. Now reflect on why did it happen? And how if you don’t want that to happen again, what what do I need to change? And he’s already there. So now make the best of it, you know, change is inevitable, you know, sometimes conflate it sounds like he may be with a little complacent if he didn’t see this coming. So,

You know, I, I don’t really know. Because I don’t really know how much control he had over this thing, you know, because like the, the entire team kind of supports everybody but but these two people were kind of like, assigned to him as like, as like, additional help and things like this. So, you know, it could have just been a better deal. I mean, I don’t really want to can too much conjecture about why they left and who’s responsible for it and stuff like this, because it largely doesn’t matter anymore. Right. But the, you know, the things that I’m talking about with him is like, okay, cool, like you got to sleep, stay hungry and keep the momentum going forward. Right, because, you know, they could have this filled in two weeks, but if you take your foot off the gas Now of like having conversations and networking and you know, keeping stuff moving forward, you’re not going to see that lag for potentially, you know, two to three months after that. So, like, this is the time to keep that all moving forward, while, you know, setting appropriate expectations. But I would be much, much more focused on like referrals and like centers of influence and that stuff as opposed to direct client stuff.

But like, sometimes, go ahead, I was gonna say, I mean, I don’t know what it takes to close a, you know, a whale in his business or a big deal. I mean, it just could potentially hamstring his capabilities of fulfillment, right? That portion of the process, and that’s a scary idea when you’re out there saying, I got a couple of big things working, and we’re going to look like crap on you know, on the familiar fulfillment side of this, and that is a real issue. Right? So yeah, Clint, I didn’t mean to step over.

Um, you know, I like that. I like Like the attitude part, Nan, because, because right now you have to overcome you have to adapt overcome, you know, point, I’ll point it this way.

Oh yeah, I knew you would go

It’s not wrong. You, you analyze, adapt, you overcome, hey, drink the Kool Aid all you want. It’s right, like you have to realize the situation.

I do agree I do

You have to we have to drive it home and I like the attitude portion of it. You know, the other side of it, of that little statement too is, you know, can you overcome it right? Is that even in your is that even in your mentality to do that? And if it’s not this little trying time, if that’s going to get the better of you that you lost your backdoor, well were you the winner, or were they the winner? Right? I think you have to look at yourself a little bit on that.

For sure. Right. And part of this is according to my understanding, which is only coming from one person, is that is it part of this they don’t want him doing right. So so it wasn’t like a like hey, he got he got super busy and super swamped. So then this person came in to do this thing like, like, this is part of the process. They don’t want the producers like trying to chase down the best pricing and the best markets and stuff like this. So, so that kind of makes sense, right? You know, division of labor.

I mean, I mean, you have all people, John, you know that as soon as somebody stops doing this process to move into this process, you just screwed everything we’ve ever known about data, you just threw all that out the window. Now we got to create a whole new database. Absolutely. So I agree with that.

Yeah, but, uh, I thought that was really interesting, because I, you know, I don’t have to deal with that, like, at all, you know, and Clint does a little bit because, you know, if his whole team like gets up and leaves, you know, in, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re a big enough company, that there’s still production pressure, right? Every day. Yeah. You know, and, and same thing, same thing in this company, right. I don’t know if they’re publicly traded, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were. I mean, they’re, they’re substantial. So, you know, there’s the the easiest quotas not going to be there, right? So you kind of got to make do the best you can with about that. But I would be doubling down on trying to find the best, like top end deals that I could, so that we don’t have to do a volume approach. I can do like a, like a surgical approach of like, Okay, cool. I would have worked on this with the team but now that the team isn’t here, I have to do more. So I you know, I don’t think I’m the right one to help you. Yeah.

But I tell you my biggest My biggest concern with all of it is when that when this situation happens, I’m not talking about just this guy and his problem but but in general, when people leave you and you become short handed, it’s usually not a capacity issue. Can we get this done? It’s more of a uncomfortable issue. Now I’m used to working 20 hours a week as a sales guy I get to go golfing in the mornings nobody bothers me. I’m bringing in deals I get to do all this stuff. And now that those guys love me now I have to work my full 40 or my four full 50, 60 hours a week and you’re making me feel uncomfortable therefore I bitch and and you know this isn’t right. You’re treating me wrong. Then I leave, right? Yeah.

And there’s always like, there’s always this like idea that like, well, there’s their stigma of like, oh, the salesperson said all of these things, they made all these agreements. And now it’s up, It’s on us to fulfill. And I hear this in a lot of the companies that I work with, right? There’s always my business all day long. There’s always there’s there’s always animosity between like the sales team and the back office team. Right. And part of that is because of bad communication and bad of it. Part of it is because bad process and things like this, and that’s why, you know, I’m able to help them. But there’s always this idea that I go back to that I kind of, I think I get this from Jocko more than like anywhere else. But like, you can either be beholden to the prospect and do everything you can Oh, yeah, sure, man, we’ll we’ll get that out to you. When do you need it all the stuff at the expense of your team? Or you can be beholden to the team sometimes at the expense of your prospect, like, Hey, we’re not gonna be able to get that done in two days, because our team is going to take three to four. As you know, are you are you okay with that? Right. You can put that pressure either on the prospect or you can put Put it on your team. But when you keep putting it on the team over and over and over and over again, I do agree with with what Clint and Al have been talking about, that you weren’t going to burn people out, you know?

Well, the key there is to set the right expectations on that equation, right? And don’t over promise it to the point that your team cannot deliver. But then also respect the fact that if your team is at its maximum capacity, and you know that don’t break your machine, right, because you can’t mow the yard if the lawn mower won’t start, right?

And then, you know, let’s talk about it this other way, right. You’re getting really incentivized to work your own deals, right? You’re not getting paid the same amount to work this salesperson’s deals.

There’s where I think that’s that’s F-ed up right there. Yeah. And to me, like when a guy goes, Yeah, I’m getting to it.

Yeah, exactly. And that’s when you have to frame the whole situation differently, right? Because essentially, that situation because it was for so long, it’s like it’s like a cool you guys sell because you guys have to support the call center. Well, now that there’s a producer back in That focus should shift back to doing that. But the The agreement was already in place around commissions and everything else like this. And this leader apparently doesn’t seem super confident and comfortable about going back and saying, okay, we’re changing the pay scale. But now that these two people have left, I’d be in there changing that pay scale so fast.

That is so hard man, you could have a mutiny in a New York minute when you take money away.

No, I know, but if you could have four?

You better, you better be prepared to hire, you better be prepared to hire two more. And then however many other centers you have these same four and four, two and two, however they do it, but yes, you can create is you’re gonna do that to me. I’m like, Look, if I’m good. I’m seeing the writing on the wall that good. You know, you could rip it out from underneath me at a New York minute. So

I’m not saying I and I realized that this is a delicate thing. We’re talking about it in a vacuum and I’m coming across kind of like the, the the axe men you know, if you don’t like it, leave, but you know, there there is something to be said about like Like, this is the vision of our company, you know, like, like, if, if I was still working for, you know, for Al and I was like, cool, I’m gonna do all of this other stuff. Well, maybe you still gotta go and do this thing that you’re required to do, right? And, you know, once again, I think it’s it’s mystification between like the leader, the producers and the back office team, and nobody knows how they’re supposed to align. And I’m sure you could structure this way. So that way for like, one year, the drop off isn’t as bad. So you know, you’re not hungry, but you are incentivized to like work with a team and build a team together.

But it’s in my opinion, would be very simple, where you incentivize them through the new sales process and don’t hurt frontline guys. They don’t lose anything. They just got to work it that way. And you you bring it yet you do this right? There’s more, and it’s the same money to you at the end of the day, with a better structure of where you’re where your emphasis should be, which is on this new growth with some grease on upping the sales to you know, or you know, cultivating or farming from within your own house again.

Yeah, and I’m not saying that Yeah, I’m not saying to completely take out like, like all the commission, but you know, if you’re making 15% on on stuff you cross sell internally on your own book, you now get 10. And you now get 20 on stuff that you help the producers close. Right? Like, like, you know, it’s it’s all shifting to make sure that the the value alignment is there. Yep. But you can only you can only, like, optimize for like one thing, right? Like, like, and this is something I’ve been thinking about a lot like, you know, you can optimize for quality, you can optimize for speed, you can optimize for cost, you can optimize a team to like to help, you know, protect the producers that we they’re bringing in a constant flood of new business, or you can incentivize people to just like cross sell the crap out of all the existing accounts. But then what happens is if there’s not an influx of new business, how do you solve for that?

So how could why wouldn’t you do all of that? Everything you just said,

Because I don’t think you can.

would be working towards? Well, I think you can.

You could because because it’s a it’s a change

That’s what successful companies do.

I don’t

But so but so I think I think that if you’re going to be really, really good, right and perform at a really high level, you have to cut out stuff, right? And sometimes that means, okay, we’re not gonna, you know, it’s all about where you put your focus.

You cut off your staff spinning for effin hours on their phone instead of working right? You get them to lunch and you get them back, you sort of shorten all the nonsense that really takes production down to four hours on an eight hour day.

I will tell you in a pretty large company, myself, they, my thought is always get back to where you came from. Don’t ever forget where he started from. And every company I’ve worked in, in since I started working in construction, has always lost sight of that, right at some point, right? I’ve got to get I need another accounting person. I need another project manager. I need another this. Because if I don’t hire that person, I’m going to Put this person in an uncomfortable position that they have to work more hours. Right. But when we started, when we first started growing, we first started doing all this stuff. Everybody worked 100 hours a week, everybody worked 90 hours a week. What are you talking about? Get back to that mentality. I’m not saying push your people to work ungodly hours. By no means am I saying that. What I’m saying is to Doc’s point, a little bit of like, Okay, this guy says he’s at 100% capacity, but I just saw him eat lunch for two hours, I just saw him walk up and down the hallway talking to other people in the office for an hour. That’s 80% capacity that’s not 100. So if I take that 20, and this other person is 20, and the other person’s 20, and then put it together and get to 100 really quickly, especially in a very large organization. So I’m not saying cut back, what I’m saying is maximize potential that you have.

I would agree with that.

Guys with the current pandemic. If you’re not willing to up your game at whatever level it is you perform in your company. Right, I’m telling you, the gravy train of unemployment just left. You, it wasn’t a long train right? That’s $600 extra a week is gone and it’s going lower. You do not want to be unemployed or in a transition you’ve locked your teeth in tight to whatever good that you have going on and make it better because this world is going to get worse before it gets better. And there’s a I mean, write that down take that to the bank.

So so I do have something to add to this and you know, I think if mycompany ever saw this, I hope they don’t but I’m gonna say it anyway.

As you broadcast from the head company headquarters.

Phone lines are lighting up right now. So can’t wait to hear.

What I will say is this is don’t at the same time and all the downturn people have let a lot of people go because A they were deadweight, 2, They didn’t them and 3, they couldn’t afford it right like they there’s people been let go and this economy will bounce back and I almost bet you that none of those people will hire those same people back they can’t it’s too much pride involved, there’s too much animosity how are you going to trust the guy that you let go to come back and do a good job he’s probably just not going to do that. So I will say this keep your ears and eyes open if something you know another company somebody somewhere you wanted to move to and work for. So I’m gonna play the devil’s advocate.

Good point.

on this too, is that if something pops up and man you’ve been waiting for that position for a long time or a little bit extra pay in another company to do the same thing. those opportunities if they’re not out there right now, they sure as fuck will be in six months from now.

I have a story. Oh, I have something guys. Go ahead. Really? I have something germane to that.

So I think I think that that that obviously there’s a balance between those two things, right? Because you can get wrapped up in an idea of like, I can fix this Right, and then you’re you’re skipping opportunities because you’re like, I can fix this, I can win this, I can do this right here. And I think you have to be like really honest with yourself about the impact that you can have in a role. This guy, Matt, who, who’s a fan of the show, reached out and we had a roleplay conversation. And he was talking about a situation where he’s a consultant, sold his company a solution. And they’re like, cool, we’ll buy it if you if we can hire you full time. And you come on and you help support it. We didn’t really want to do, but he was excited about the concept and the idea. So we took the job, and they were no longer listening to his ideas. And he was like, Man, I’m so frustrated. I didn’t want this job in the first place. I just wanted to give them solution and be on my way, and now they’ve hired me, and now they’re not listening to any of my advice. And so we’re talking about this on the roleplay. And I said, well, man, like how do you feel about it? And he’s like, it’s frustrating, all this, all this other stuff. And I was like, Okay, cool. You need to tell them that. And he was like, What do you mean? And I was like, Look, man, you’re in a spot to where, you know, you’re not really being listened to but you were brought there because you were supposed to have good ideas and now they’re not listening to them like in you seem like you feel bad about taking the money and he was like, Yeah, I said, Go tell them you feel bad for taking their money when they’re not gonna listen to your advice. But be aware that you might get canned at the end of it. And like, you know, what are your thoughts on that? And he was like, well, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. And I said, Okay, so then a week later, he sends me a message and he was like, man, I, I did exactly what you said. I was like, cool, man, how’d it go? And he was like, I don’t work there anymore. And I was like, Oh, sorry, you know, don’t be sorry. I’m so excited. And that was exactly the advice I needed, you know, but I think that there’s spots to where you can tell yourself that like, I can be the I can be the change I can I can make all these things happen. But you also have to be able to zoom out a little bit detached, you know, from like the Jocko camp and really look at this as, you know, can you impact change? Or are you are you staring at the good poker table sitting at the bad poker table because you want to win back to 20 bucks that you’ve lost on this poker table?

Okay, so to my point, so I’m cheating Challenging everybody out there to because this was a real situation in my business. Can you go ask your superior for a letter of recommendation? And will they write it for you knowing that there are mass layoffs out there and that might be good to have it should you have to go somewhere else? And the person who asked me for a letter of recommendation got an amazing letter of recommendation and a $20,000 raise

What? So, this person… no, are you kidding me?

So Doc, are you hiring?

Now it, now it is built off of all 20,000 is built off of current performance and current trajectory. So if cash flow is there, but there’s a base to this though there is a solid up in the base, but to reach the the the the end zone, there’s plenty Probably hold on to that 20 is built off of income for the business.

Hold up, okay, I have so many questions here. Okay, so someone comes into your office and they say, hey Al, can you write me a letter of recommendation? Because I, because I might be leaving. And you say, here’s a $20,000 raise, like, how does the conversation??

No, no, the conversation started on there and we had we had spent a year working on a project, it would really consumed a ton of time and a ton of extra effort. It was the two new clinics that we have coming off the ground, right. And that took a lot of effort. And along the way, she wasn’t the only one who has performed and gotten you know, our this individual kind of gave away their gender. So her…

Nan, if you wanted to, like leave and work someplace else, I would have given you a job.

And it wasn’t Nan, and it wasn’t Nan. But what ended what ended up happening was it was like, hey, I’d like to get a read or a letter of recommendation and can I have By the end I said sure I can do one of those for you, you know, what’s this about? And she says, Well, you know, we went through a little bit of a conversation of you know, remember discussions we’ve had and inflection points and where we needed to be and she understands you know, how things were going and I said, Okay, let’s talk about this. It seems like this is also a bridge to you need more out of this the out of the company, right? Is that is am I hearing that correctly? And I mean, it just I’m telling you, I literally I didn’t give more than I should and I did it in a way that worked out. But guys if you’re if companies are letting people go, but they’re keeping you Why are they keeping you and letting the other person go?

Nan wants to push back on so much of this like, like she’s just over?

I don’t play Nan has her opinion. Wait a second, Nan has her opinion, but she doesn’t have all the facts and figures, right. Yeah,

Interesting.

Yeah. So hey, if the timing is right, and you think you, you, you’re someone they don’t want to leave, now’s the time to see what the cash coffers look like.

All right, guys, we’re at 42. So let’s go. Let’s go around real quick, right? If you’re, if you’re in a spot, if you’re in this guy spot, what are you doing over the next seven days in 30 days, starting from now. Clint?

So, evaluate everything that you have currently. That’s, that’s the first step, right? evaluate your capacity, evaluate what you need to do, put it on paper, put it in a spreadsheet, whatever you got to do to make sense in your own brain, evaluate everything you need to do. And then easily out of that, now that you know everything that you need to do, what your capacity is, you can formulate a plan to execute, right. And you work towards that goal of execution. Maybe it is hire two more backend people because it’s a necessity. But I challenge you to learn the capacity of what you have. Because I, I just bet you that it’s not at 100%. But if it is, okay, we hired two new people, what does that look like? How do we compensate those people? Why did those people leave me? How do I make it better? So these people stay with me for 15 years and they don’t leave me. So so there’s a lot of factors in there but evaluate, plan, attack

Al, what you got? 7 days, 30 days.

Ask for a letter of recommendation.

Nan, what are you doing tomorrow?

But But then the question will be, you know, how do you fill the void just like Clint, I got nothing new to add to that. But you’re gonna have to solve the situation and what is your capacity to move laterally if it isn’t a right fit for the way you want to do business going forward. Here’s the sales guy you should have, you should have opportunities galore if you’re killing it in this environment.

Nannette, what you got?

It’s a perplexing question, is it not, I would just say, be in the know, like, and optimize your situation. because change is always good. You know, and if you look at it as bad, it will be bad you speak, what’s going to happen. So if through that change in front of you understand what happened, you know that to the best of your ability, and then optimize your situation.

Interesting. For me, well, first of all, if I’m Nan or anybody working for Al, I’m writing I’m gonna go ask for a letter recommendation, like ASAP. For me, I was really, I’m big on momentum, right and, you know, stuffs slips away if it’s not directly in front of you. So if you’ve got KPIs and goals, a bunch of weekly activities and things you have to be doing. I would be adjusting that into like, like either really targeted stuff or more networking stuff, which has got a little bit longer timeline. But I really like what Clint and Al have been talking about, you know, if you have support people on your team do they like you like like, are they incentivized to work for you? Are they bought into like the mission you know, and all of those things and I do like the idea of looking at this as like a learning opportunity of like, Okay, cool. Why do we think these people left how do we make sure that this doesn’t happen again? And taking some ownership of that man, I think I think I’ll hit it out of the park. This was awesome. This was really really good. Yeah, so if you’re in sales and or if you know somebody else in sales who might be struggling with some of these situations we’re talking about please share this with him. If you’re watching us on YouTube, and you’re seeing Clint’s amazing Marine Corps sticker behind him because he’s the only one, actually Al’s pretty well lit. If you’re watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe. Leave a comment If you would like to give us some feedback about how to improve this or if you have a story or something you were caught up on, send us a Tweet, send us a message on Facebook, send us an email. If you want to take the assessment, reach out to us DISC@salesthrowdown.com we’ll get you hooked up, and we’ll catch everybody real soon. Go kill it and stay safe.