Episode 57: What Happens When You Don’t Work Your Sales Process?

Episode 56

 

Welcome to Sales Throwdown everybody. We are back. We are catching up. Clint had a story that he wanted to talk about. Didn’t know if he wanted to spend the whole time on it. And because he said I’m just over it and Al and I both agreed that claim is over something. We need to hear about it. We got it. Yeah. I want to hear we got to get into this thing. Go ahead, Clint.

Yeah, man. So we’ve talked about it before, a lot of my lot of my project lead times can be a year right. And, you know, you expect to put in a lot of work. When they’re in the 10, 15 $20 million range. I don’t mind putting in eight, nine months worth of negotiation, you know, is the juice worth the squeeze, right? We’re stuck in some weird, with this pandemic, we’re stuck in some weird times where you got to make every sale count. And I don’t mean to shit on that deal. If it was seven, eight months ago, I probably honestly I would have went for the no, got it hard and just backed out, right. But I know I can add value to this project and know that the design that we came up with is the right one for it. And I can’t get these people to listen. And I’ve tried every tactic, everything in the book, and eight months, it’s been eight months now, right? And now we’re down to where they have to make a decision and they haven’t yet. And I think we’re there, right? We’ve got commitments, we’ve got verbals we’re definitely using you guys, I appreciate the time. But, you know, a week goes by again and it’s like, Alright, when’s the deal going to be done? Oh, it’s next week, we’re making our decision. And then, you know, I, so I wait the week and, you know, I give them their space a little bit at this point. It’s like, Hey, you know, what’s the deal? Oh, you know, we just couldn’t come up with a decision today, call me next week. You know, and I know you guys would say Like a typically there, you know, it’s a very, like they just don’t want to tell, you know, however, I have a little inside information and I drive past the place almost every day. And I know they haven’t made a decision because it’s not being put in yet right? The dirt work’s done, the buildings up. They’re waiting to make this decision Plus, I know all my vendors, and they haven’t sold the equipment for it yet, right. So the deal is not dead. It’s eight months gone by. And it’s just, it’s grueling. But the worst part about it to me is that this is a $450,000 deal. So it’s not bad. It’s great. We need it, you know that I don’t want to throw this away. And I don’t want to downplay it at all, but six months ago on a different atmosphere, different market, different mentality. I would have dropped this one like a bad habit. And this is you know, so it’s tough for me to kind of get deep down in my soul of things that I normally wouldn’t do to make this happen. And and I’m there and I’m I’m done with it. I don’t even want to I’ve changed the name of the project twice to like Project Ohio and Project X just so I don’t have to say the words anymore.

But it’s not dead. It’s still there. And, you know, there’s still life blood in it. And, man, it’s just one of them deals…

How big, how big a company is this? You know, I know the project’s 450, what size company are you doing the project for?

So, so I’ll tell ya it’s a church. Right? And it’s uh, Oh, there you go. Yeah. And so, so it’s kind of tough, right? They don’t have income coming in right now. But they’ve they started the project before they broke ground before. And I know that the money’s there. It’s been approved. I do have that information. Like they got the bank loan, that’s fine. They’re we’re pretty big organization. They’ve got six or seven campuses right around the area. So they’re not without, right, they can do the project, the money’s not the issue. Right? They hired a they hired a general contractor to manage and oversee this project and they’ve more or less, they’ve fallen short on performance. And I think that they’re just not the right people to do the job. And so maybe in me, I’ve given them all kinds of options to get around using them. You know, hey, you can hire us direct, I don’t care. I’m not in it to make friends here. Let’s just get this job done for you. Because I do know that you know, one of the things that’s so enticing The reason I stay in this so hard is because they have four more of these happening again, right.

Well, that was gonna be my next question is what is there some reoccurring revenue?

Yeah, yeah. And I can’t that if you if you if you please them once. It’s a it’s a, write a check for the next four. So, you know…

Hey, hey, You’re a Christian.

I didn’t say it was Christian church.

You used the word church. So, so, so my question is then is it Jesus or Muhammad that should be telling you what direction y’all need to go?

At this point, I’d take advice from both.

There you go. Well said.

So let’s talk about it. Right, the, um, so, the so the first question then becomes, do you care about this thing if you have more in your pipeline?

Um, I honestly, I wouldn’t pay as much attention to it. And I wouldn’t give it the, as a matter of fact, I actually was talking to the customer Friday, and I and I said, My pride will not let me let you walk off of this project and me not doing it at this point. And she and she kind of laughed and she’s like, She’s like, I understand your frustration. I said, No, frustration was three months ago. I mean, at this point, like I’ve invested so much time and so much effort in this project. I’m not willing to let this go. So we will come to an agreement, you know, and she was like, Hey, I, I’m telling you, it’s yours. I just can’t cut you the check now. I’m like, Well, you know, and I didn’t say but you know, that’s what you said three months ago, right? So it’s like, I either gotta, you know, you gotta get it.

How much of this is frustration that is not going on your timeline?

Oh, a lot of it. Right? Okay. A lot of it because because of the times that we’re in, I was gonna say I’m, I’m that is constantly in my projections week after week after week after and then quarter No, now we’re talking quarter after quarter. And at some point, you know, you got because this was so for me, I’m dealing with this this one direct. A guy that I let go was managing this account eight months ago, I let them go. So I picked up his accounts. If this was another one of my sales guys, I would say guys get that. What do you do? Why is this keep projecting, get the no and move on. And, and I and I struggle with that in my own in my own mind, because if I was telling me, I’d tell me to drop it. Yeah, and I’d be wrong.

Have you worked with any church or organizations like nonprofits like this before? Sure. Okay. Do you see a trend? Okay, say you were going to Exxon to build something for them. Let’s take the top shelf. And how did those two accounts? Or do you manage them differently? Or did they manage themselves differently?

Yeah, that’s a good question. Because, you know, I always laugh because, as a matter of fact, I was just hitting on this point, Doc, Friday, it was, you know, with some other people in the office, it’s like, I’ve dealt with $15 million projects with big corporations that do this stuff every day, right? You sit down, you go over the plans with them. This is what we’re going to do. They say, Okay, I can’t have you at 15 million even but 14.95 would work. And I say, you know what deal sign the papers. 20 minutes, you’re in and out of the conversation. $15 million. Like, it’s nothing right? But this one’s going on eight months. And this is you know, but the but the thing is, to your point is we’re dealing with people’s money, right? We’re dealing with collection plate money, we’re dealing with some some bank funding that they might not be able to get as easy as the Exxon’s and the, you know, these big companies. So, so yeah, it’s completely different. You got to treat them with a little more kid gloves. You got to help them along the process. They don’t do this every day, but we do. Yeah. So very, very different process. Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. Good luck. I mean, in a certain sense, with just being able to navigate there, you know, like you said, just they’re new that they don’t have this isn’t an everyday occurrence for them. So sure how you’d see where it’s, you know, it’s under, it’s easy to understand their hesitation. So now that you understand it, and seems like you framed it pretty well. I mean, yeah, you got it. I mean, how do you move past it?

And the other side of it too is when you get that many, I’ll say chiefs, right? On the, the board or the deacons or whoever’s making the decision. Plus you have these general contractors plus you have, you know, probably a church decision at some point, when you probably got five or six people sitting in that church that have friends that do what I do and a Why don’t you use my buddy John, why don’t you use my, you know, my cousin Billy, you know, there’s a little bit of that playing into it too. Right. So, you know, I know last week I was, um, I knew I know my competition. And it’s funny because my competition in this job is completely different in the jobs like you’re talking about Doc on the upper scale. And, and in my head, I’m thinking these guys aren’t competition. If you go to their website, which they don’t have one, you know, it’s a picture of their house on Yelp. Right, and that’s okay. And I’m not knocking anybody for that. Right. But at the same side when it goes south, you know, this is a pretty big organization. What are you gonna do? I’m backed by, you know, $25 million umbrellas to do these jobs. That’s why we are who we are. And, and so so that’s a little frustrating, right is to say that you’re putting me in the same ballpark as this person but and I know, John, you struggle with that and the opposite sometimes, right?

So I do. My my question to you right now is are you, are you inventing a monster under the bed? Like, like, do you know that they’re like, like, not like taking heat but like taking some pressure to like use someone from like inside the congregation as opposed to you guys? Or is that just like a concern?

So so, I, I guess it’s a concern because I’ve dealt with this in the past, right? And that’s always like, I’ve lost jobs. And I’m like, well, who you know, and I’ll call up later, who did the job, how’d it go? Oh, man, it went terrible. Like what what did you use, you know, oh, we use you know, Jack’s cousin Phil that had a you know, he did it on his off time and it took 19 months to build,. Like we told you to do we do it in three months, you know, like, this is why you use it. So so I do have those concerns. I’ve heard little I, I listen to every word that people are telling me and I and I tried to extract that information. And I got a little hint of that the other day, when it was when I heard while we’re waiting on a bid to come back. I was like, Guys, you’ve had multiple bids of mine for three, four or five months. I keep renegotiating I keep redesigning, I’ve got engineering time in this like, and I made him sign an NDA to say you’re not taking any of my designs, the chair would say would say totally could have right and and i would i would be none the wiser. It’s just a legal thing. And at some point, though, like they hit on, like I’m waiting on this bid from so and so. And he’s busy right now. I’m like, so he’s so busy that he can’t get you a bid. How do you actually expect the construction to go right and you need this done tomorrow.

So, okay, so you spoke to them directly yeah right about that this this guy may not be large enough not be the right fit so Okay, so you

look, look those guys are no doubt gonna be cheaper than me but there’s a reason they’re cheaper than me and it’s not just because they don’t do good work. I’m not saying that. My thing is they don’t have high overheads and people to put on this job when the time comes. And that’s what you’re going to run to. That’s why they can’t get you this bid right now.

Well, no, here’s what happened. I think I kind of understand your dilemma. Man. Home Depot has been backed up on their equipment rentals. These guys just you know they can’t get a backhoe bro.

I thought I was being super serious over here making jokes. So, Clint, the Did you say it the way that you said it to us just now?

Oh, probably no, I’ve got a lot more, you know, I love you voice in there.

Well, I mean, it’s just that it’s just that whole like, like telling telling it as a story, you know, Clint a lot of people that we talked to feel some pressure to make maybe use some sort of some sort of connection that’s going to be cheaper. When when that’s happened sometimes it doesn’t happen at the quality level that they’re expecting, what’s more important to you?

It’s it’s a good it’s a good point. I do. I do know when I was talking to her on Friday It was like Look, guys, and I think I was on speakerphone with a couple people in the room and I just said, you know, guys, here’s the deal is, you know, I know we can do this job. I know we can design it for you. I know we can build it for you. I know we can meet the timelines that you’re asking for. And we’ve met your price. I’ve helped me understand I’m a little confused why we haven’t pulled the trigger on this. And it was just kind of silence for a good couple minutes and I let it go. actually put the phone down and like just kind of went back to my emails because I knew That was gonna be a big bomb in the room, right? Pull the trigger or don’t. And it was just kind of, and I, when they came back and they were like, well, the deal is, is that it’s a church decision. I said, Hey, I completely understand. That’s not a problem for me. But I will tell you that right now, that project is slated to go in this month to this month. And I’m holding guys to do this project, because you’ve given me a verbal, if you’re not going to let me do this project, you need to tell me now so I can find other work for these guys. Otherwise, the impact is greater than just me losing a sale. And so that’s, that’s, uh, that was a little, probably the most intense that I’d been with them in the last month or so to where it was like, okay, we need to make a decision.

Now, who do you Who are you talking to when you’re, you know, getting your information.

So this person is the the project director for the general contractor,

Okay, but it’s not a member of the church, you’re just asking them, they gotta go back.

Yeah, they’re the they’re the middle party, you know, they take everything presented, and you hope this is where the information that you give, and if you give it in the right sense, and you give them the right tonality and you make everybody feel good, they’re going to take that message with them to the board members, right? But if you don’t, they’re taking that bad message for you. So you got to rely on everything you say to these people to be translated upwards, and that’s tough.

That’s a great, a great thing that you said, always be cognitive of who you’re talking to, and who they’re going to talk to. That’s so important, because that happens all the time in business. So that was a really good point.

Click I have a question. If you said that this one is important because there’s going to be three more after this. They’re all going to be about the same price range.

Probably.

Okay, so that’s a lot of like ifs and hopes, right? I mean, absolutely. It seems like you’re doing a lot of effort to land this one job and then kind of hoping that the other jobs are also going to be…

Yeah, to be honest with you. I don’t care about the other jobs right. I I’m stuck in this one purse is this,

You just have to win this one.

Yeah, and this is a personal thing for me at this point, because typically, I’m not involved in the day to day sales aspect, more of the back end paperwork, you know, estimating making sure all the paperwork sign that we did a good estimate, make sure that we got pricing from everybody. You know, there’s a sales guy out there that that does that. And this one just happened to fall in my lap because like I said, I let a guy go and this one is still a live deal. And instead of transferring that to new sales guy, they had met me multiple times. So I stayed involved and there is a little, I won’t say a little bit, there’s a lot of pride involved in me closing this one for my own self, right, professionally, personally, all of it. But at the same time, there’s a lot riding on this, because that just happens to if, if I just sold this last month, I would have met my goal for the month, because I was projected to do that. And I will I will say that there’s just not that many deals out there. Right now during this whole deal, this COVID deal to project things as an 85% probable, and then watch it push month to month to month, right? And that’s what I’m doing with this job. And, and it’s tough, right? It’s tough as a as a sales leader, it’s tough to project that to your president, to project to corporate. Like that’s not something that I typically do. I’m the first one to that that deal hasn’t you know, had any movement a month get it out of here, if you if they didn’t pick up the phone to give you a no get it off there? You know, so I’m I’m constantly wiping things and this one is lagging. Again, and it’s probably because I’m dealing with it personally.

I got it. I got it. You get Jess and gussy those kids up. Next Sunday, you’re in the front pew baby. It doesn’t stop there and then when they have the little cookies and doughnuts and the social, that’s your arena, you’re making the rounds man you’re, you’re like hey, what about that project Hey man, that blank look, you start bringing them up to speed about what all the good work that’s being done by this church. Now you want to get involved and let’s roll our sleeves up and go extra deep today on the collection because we got a project needs some funding.

And I know your jo-, I know Al’s joking right now.

I’m being dead serious

He’s dead serious.

Probably, in a prior life before, a lot of stuff that we’ve done here and worked on talked about. I’ve done it for, I’ve done a lot worse things than that. To make a sale.

He’s gonna come through and tell us a tale of having gone down that route.

I have done far worse than sitting in church. And I’ll tell you I didn’t feel good about it then and I don’t feel good about looking back on it, but I will tell you, there’s the right way to do certain deals.

I man i don’t

You are right. You are right.

So, um, a long, long time ago, working in a bank and I was trying to get some people to get Yeah, long time ago. And this is like in 2012, Alice is maybe, maybe about a year old. And this older couple comes in and we’re doing, we’re chatting and I haven’t learned any of this stuff, right? I’m just chasing the sale. And, and they see her picture and they’re like, well, how old your daughter and I’m like, Oh, you know, she’s about this old and they’re like, Okay, you know what, you need to get her in church before she’s three. And I’m kind of like okay, And then mentally part of me is like, Oh, these people will buy from me if we if I present this like version and I’m just like, Oh, you know, you know, we’re not really in church and like, why not? And then I felt this pressure, which I didn’t even need to like do at all. I could just not pick up this conversational bomb that’s like now my feet. And I remember leaving the day left, and I was like, No, I’m never going through this, this thing again. I felt dirty and grimy, and then, you know, they didn’t buy which is fine, you know, looking back on it now, but uh, yeah, I got done. I was like, that’s just not necessary. I shouldn’t have to do that.

Well, it you know, it’s a good it’s a good thing to talk about this because there’s a lot of people out there and especially in desperate times, like we’re in, the people are going to do a lot of things that you can’t control. Let’s just say it’s your competition. They’re going to do things under the table and shady or, you know, one of the things that I find right now that a lot of people are doing is, you know, publicly traded versus versus privately held companies or independent companies, right? Those some people can afford to do jobs at cost to keep the lights on for so long, right? Some people have to project their earnings to a corporation like myself, and they don’t care about what you’re going through. They want to see earnings and positive numbers. Right. And so there’s a thing going on right now, especially in Houston, where I think a lot of the my competition is out there because they’re not, you know, big corporations. They are taking jobs at cost, which I mean, I can come down some but I still have to make some money, right? I still have to, I still have to answer to a board of directors that’s a nationwide company, right? So I can I can drop some margins at some point to get you know, and I’m kind of going off on a tangent here, but you know, there are is a point where the less revenue you bring in the overhead skyrockets and your costs are going through the roof because you don’t have overhead. And we had that meeting here about two weeks ago is probably the best meeting I’ve ever had, financially, to where it’s like, Guys, at what point do the graph numbers start to go in the opposite directions that we don’t want it to go? We still have to sell some work. I can’t sell them at the margins I did six months ago. And the less I sell, the more my costs drive through because I don’t have revenue coming in the door. So you do have to make some decisions. And they have to be they have to be for the better. Not today decisions but six months down the road decisions a year from now. You know, for me, I have $15 million in backlog why that may sound like a great number. If I don’t keep the lights on to get to the backlog. Yeah, won’t matter. Absolutely. So there’s big decisions to be made and these troubling times.

Yeah, we have the same thing where We’re seeing a lot of the surgeries that we would be doing through the, for the surgical supply side. They’re out there we know they’ve been scheduled but then they get put on hold or the patient says I can’t take family members so I don’t want to be there alone. So the back pain hasn’t gone away. The problem is it could and now we’re at the last six months which is our sweet spot deductibles are paid but will that six months will we be able to slide them in there before the next year turns and now we’ve got deductibles again. And so from the surgical side of things and it’s the same game. How long, you know we got just got to wait it out because they’re still there. They’re still on the docket yet but but but is are my employee costs gonna take you know take too much out on me my Yeah, my my structure. I mean, the supplies come from a bigger group than myself. So you know, I’m assuming they’ll be solvent in six months, but yeah.

And to your point the customers in my case the customers In your case the patient’s, they don’t give a shit who sells the equipment to the surgeon, or sells the the does the HVAC job, right? They don’t care. Right, you’re still gonna be there with a need. And so as these people from the church that are in a year from now, they’re still gonna have the need that they need this building, right? Right when their cash flow pops back up. The people that outlasted the pandemic, are going to be there to build this stuff. And at some point, you got to think I’ve got to get to there to keep in the running.

Right. So the general contractor, does he have a sense of urgency, or do you find that he’s a little lackadaisical on though?

And that’s kind of the whole problem here is that? Well, you made all the decisions, right? You hired the dirt guy, you hired the landscaper, you hide the steel building guy, you hired the roofer, you hired the electrician, you hired the plumber, and it’s taken you eight months to hire this guy. And I just have a gut feel and and it’s a strong one that’s usually backed by a lot of other things, I call it a gut feel, but you’ve got a lot of reasons that you have that feeling right. And I think there’s some shady underhanded stuff going on, that I can’t compete with. And I’m not gonna compete with. That’s why I’ve gone so hard for the no for the last, you know, three or four months, is just telling me I don’t have this so I can walk away, right? You’re gonna take a brown bag of money under the table. And I’m not saying that’s what it is. My gut tells me it is. If you’re going to take the brown bag of cash so that you can, you know, because it’s just as bad for you as anybody. You’re going to take that money and go pay off some debt and hire and do the you know your customer a disservice by a shitty person. I can’t compete with that and I’m not gonna try. No way No How.

Yeah, I think I think you know exactly what you’re supposed to do, man like I do. You know, you’re you’re not you’re not letting yourself because you’re tied up in this Whole thing emotional right? You need to win this deal because you’ve been dealing with all this stuff. Yeah.

But at the sames time, but at the same time like if I know like I said earlier if this was anybody else in my company bringing this constantly month after month after month, I would tell them guys, you’re chasing a pipe dream, get off of this thing, let it go and if it pops back up and six months from now, it’s something that we didn’t have in the pipeline and it’s a win win. Congratulations. You just you know, you just outdid yourself, but in this deal I know too much information. I know too many players in the game personally. And I know some information that I probably shouldn’t to keep me involved. And and that’s where it gets tough.

This time. You know you keep that’s twice now that you stated you would have told whomever I’m not going to do this. This is a different time. Now you problem is how long is this time gonna be? You know, and nobody knows. And that’s, you know, how long do you go? Oh, okay. It’s okay. You know.

I will say that I have been bitten, bitten hard by me telling people to go get rid of this job too quickly. 99% of the time it works for me well, because I get it off the radar, we go chase something else. we dive into that one, we don’t get it. Who cares? Move on. To be honest with you. That’s how I’ve, in my mind, that’s how I’ve driven success in my businesses. Get rid of all the stuff that you just, you. Look, it’s been on the pending list for a month. You called, I called them, you called them, they didn’t answer they won’t even answer our emails. They’re not going to give you a $6 million job they won’t even answer your phone call. Drop this thing man. And if it does come back around, great. We just add it to you know, we add it again and no harm no foul, but we can project this month over month and and I will say that I got bitten in the last year, pretty hard by one of my sales guys that brought a job in. I said, God, this is city funding. This is a senior living housing like this is the bottom of the barrel construction for us. How are we ever going to compete in this, like, just drop this thing, and it kept coming back and I kept seeing it on the list again, over and over. I kept seeing it in the projections. Like, man, you need to find something else. And so finally, the guy drops it in December, we go on Christmas break, he comes back and he hands me a freaking signed contract for the price. And I’m like, he’s like, eat your words, buddy. I’m like God, but there’s something to that right. Did I push him so, did I push him so hard that he went to get it off his list? And he actually made the sale? Or did he get lucky? I don’t know. But the point is, is like after I saw that, that reverse side of things. It’s like it’s so hard for me to know the information that I know and just close the book.

Don’t man, get out the dress shoes, get all pressed up baby and get on that front row.

I licked, I licked the end fingers and slicked back my eyebrows.

But it’s so if How would you like it if you’re working for some guy who was very much of a don’t do as I say or don’t do as I do, do as I say kind of leader

Well yeah but that’s why I’m here and they’re not. No, that’s messed up, that’s messed up. I’m just joking.

Wow what a vice president statement to make.

I knew you guys would like that one.

Wow, okay Mr. Vice President.

But I will tell you that that does that does bother me It bothers me that I that I’m even talking that’s why to be honest with you when I was talking about I was like man I just really don’t want to talk about this anymore because it’s a constant conversation in this office like oh that the church again and I’m like I said I renamed it like three times different projects because I can’t even hear the name anymore You know?

You gotta you gotta you got to put this thing on on autopilot and get the hell out from under it mean like this thing is this thing is confining you and taking away all the greatness that makes Clint really really good at being a salesperson.

I guess if I had yeah and it’s tough because I’ve been I’ve been out of the sales game for a little bit in like the day to day actual, like going out and getting jobs bringing them in running them from you know, ground up to close. I’ve been out of that for a minute. And now with this whole deal going on, it’s kind of like okay, you know, we hired you to turn this around, you fired half the company. Let’s now you know, now you got to do something. And it was like, okay,

So I love I love so much how you have sabotage yourself into this whole thing, right? So let’s cut out some of these guys. And then oh, let’s not run the regular process. I’m going to run this because I’m so good. And then you’re just adding all of this weight on top and on top of yourself, and now you’re just like, you’re just pushing this like boulder up the thing just like Sisyphus and it’s like almost there and then he’s gonna reform at the base of the thing. Call back next week, I’ll have a check for you.

We, you know, man, we all have our faults and this has been mine, you know, we’re not perfect by any means.

But you know that and maybe there’s a lesson in that, that, you know, we as educated and as aware as we think we are man, it is not very difficult to slip back into a bad habit or succumb given out other pressures, right, not not in a normal world, but the one that we just fell into, man, has put pressure on some very successful people that are used to a certain level of success in sales, therefore, income levels, therefore businesses and your stature inside your corporation. I mean, there’s a lot of things that are just getting ripped to shreds right now so so maybe us just being honest about some of the shit we should be doing differently right and stuff that’s just got us, our goat, is you know hopefully it helps people out there understand that this is widespread man. It is it you know it may not be you it may be a certain situation but here’s what happens. You’ve got to be a new you. You’ve got to figure out what your new move is that outpaces all of the crap that we’re dealing with right now.

Because you know what, Nan,Nan would’ve closed this deal already.

Oh, wait a second. Bible in hand, Nan would’ve been on the…

You need to get Nan, yeah, you need you need to call in a ringer bro just like whooping like Nan hops on a bus and she’s down there in a couple of days doing her thing. I don’t know how anybody gets anywhere anymore like

So, so the problem is, John, is the I’m supposed to be the ringer. Right? That’s the struggle.

You have put yourself into a game you can’t win right now.

Maybe, you know.

Monday Clint, I’ll be there Monday.

Deal. Yep. And that’s a you know, that’s the, there’s a there’s a small struggle in there too, with with, I think with with everybody is that and I and I hit on it all the time is you can’t buy the book that says do these 10 things and be this thing. It doesn’t work. As I said all the time. They’re guidelines. We all make mistakes the guy at the top of the Fortune 50 company as like, you think he doesn’t make mistakes, you’re crazy. He just knows how to cover it up really well and you never find out about it. But you know, that’s why that’s why I love this. I love this premise of this podcast and the different personalities because we make mistakes. We are human. We do this every day and trust me we’re not the we’re not perfect. I would never tell you ever in either that this is being high corner D and being me, I would never sit down in front of you, this is how you have to do it. Don’t do it any other way but this way, I’ll give you options of what I think. But to tell you anybody, you know the situation best and for me to tell you that this is how you do it is crazy because there’s honestly there’s 10 ways to make the same situation that I’m dealing with right now. There’s 10 ways to make this work 10 different ways at least with with multiple personalities so so I just, don’t get hung up on that.

Yeah, like if you duplicated this exact same situation 10 times and A) if you change the person that Clint has the relationship with two different personalities that’s going to open up other you know, so there’s so much you know. We, you can learn as much as you want to about all of this stuff, but the thing that I really love about sales is that there is a there’s a time at the table component, right? Just like you know, you can read about poker but like until you guys sit down at that table Like you’re not going to understand the pacing of that game, right? If you can read all the jujitsu books all the kung fu books but like until you go spar and like you feel pressure and you feel what it’s like to get punched, like you’re not ready for that right? So you can’t you can’t just learn all this stuff in a vacuum you have got it you’ve got to be out there, you know, practicing and you know, drilling and trying to improve.

Yeah, I’ve never I’ve never done anything in my life that I just grabbed the knowledge from a book or a video or somebody teaching me and did it once and was perfect at it ever. Repetition in everything. I mean everything whether it’s shooting, shooting rifles down range if it’s golfing, if it’s even you know, the construction work that I’ve done, woodworking I’ve made so many stake, mistakes in woodworking. Build this table. I wish I could have built that better this time. Next time you do it a little bit better the next time it’s like oh, this is fantastic. I wish I’d have done that the first time. It’s an everything that I don’t know any aspect of life that repetition isn’t making doesn’t make you great.

And I love that so much because like I get really hyped up about refinement and practice and like looking at this, like, how can I improve and stuff like this? And I don’t really find that same eagerness in in most people. But what I found is that if you have like a hobby that, you know, you can improve at measurably, right, whether it’s, you know, Kung Fu, or martial arts, or woodworking or anything, right. That that hunger of like, I could do that better next time, I could do that better next time. Right? And that that same idea has got to be into your sales. Well, I learned from that one. I’m not going to make that mistake. Again. This needs to be part of my qualification process next time. There’s there it’s impossible to be to be perfect in the moment, right? Because you can only perform at the level of training and if you’ve never seen something before, you’re not going to know how to deal with it. And that’s okay.

You don’t know what, you don’t know what you don’t know. Yeah,

well, okay, john, you brought up a really good point that I want to go back to when you said that, you know, if you have a hobby or something that you like to do, they really you put a lot of effort into. Guys out there, sales is not easy, right? It is a very difficult job that a lot of people try and a lot of people fail at. But it you know, I like to cook right, so when I have a recipe, I’ll do it you know, according to the recipe that maybe I read but as I go along, I’m tasting this I’m deciding do I want more of this flavor or more that flavor to suit my own palate? And so, take if anybody doesn’t, I know Clint golfs and you do kung fu and Nan you know is an organizer and you know she’s got all these different things that she goes out and does for other people and decorating and so forth. You know, if you take that same level of passion and understanding that you’ve come back into a room and Nan will rearrange something right or Hey, in my office, it needs to go this way or clean. You hit a golf ball and you’re like shit, I got to correct for that. Guys, sales is no different. You know, take anything that you have a true passion a true of something That you do outside of sales, take that same formula with some of the nuances we’re giving you and to be on the lookout for personality traits, ways to talk to people, problems they’ll have, answers they’ll want and do the same thing. And this will not be the grind that it is for you today. Right.

And I’ll tell you, I want to tie some of the stuff we talked about into into that a little bit because John hit on something that we we kind of passed over. And it was the different personalities on the other side of the of the sale, right, the personalities or business structure that they’re in and they don’t quite understand what you’re trying to do. The other half of the equation is, I would say more important than your own side. You know, understanding what they want, what they need, how to give it to them, how to present it to them who that person is that presents it to them is way more important than anything in your own head. Right and and we kind of passed over that a little bit. But even to the point of like Doc’s analogy of cooking, you you put salt in it, and pepper and cayenne pepper and some spicy shit. And I don’t like spicy shit. I’m not gonna like your food, right? It’s all about who you’re delivering the food to. So agreed. I mean, there’s so much that weighs on the other side of the equation.

Here’s what you just hit on too, you demystify the equation. When I have guests over, I want to know what their palette looks like, because I can modify and we sometimes when I cook, I set some of the condiments out so you can make a decision. I’ve got the starter here if we’re doing salads, so take that and demystify it, right. Whatever screwed up your golf shot, whatever the jujitsu grab man grabbing man from back to front, whatever’s mystical there. Oh, what is that? I need some answers.

Are you talking about are you talking about the Navy, Doc?

Talking about the Marine Corps, all those guys under deck, you know, Are we there yet?

That’s SOP, grab other guys from behind in the Navy.

No, we get

All right, all right, back on track. Come on.

Alright, I won’t tell you about going to chow then.

Because like just last last week I made we had some family down. I made a big brisket and all I did was smoke the brisket I put it out I presented tacos, buns. Eat it regular. Here’s six barbecue sauces. Do whatever you guys want to do. I made that I made the structure. Have fun with it. Right. There you go. If you know I think it’s a good analogy. I think it works in everything that we do in sales.

Sales is the same way you got your bag, you’ve got your audience, guys use the tools, demystify it for yourself and for them right. And if you’ll demystify it for your for your client or the prospect, he then the D then it’ll demystify for you too, right.

And that’s a good point too. Because, you know, I could have easily said, hey, what kind of barbecue sauce? Do you like sweet or spicy? And I just said, sweet. I put the sweet out. I don’t put the spicy what’s the point? Right? Why put the spicy out? Nobody’s gonna eat it. You know? Do you guys like corn or beans? I like beans. Okay, we’re making beans and why would I make corn? I mean, ask the questions, get in deep into the conversation,

Know who you’re talking to? So it’s the truth, the law of identity. Knowing.

John, are you trying to break this down. We’re talking about beans and brisket.

Well no, because I think I think there’s a lesson here, right? When you can’t ask the questions and be okay with what with what you’re trying to optimize for. Right? So like this, this church, you know, that you’re dealing with? Are you trying to get this thing done with like, the quality level? Are you trying to get it done for as cheap as possible? Okay?

No, so, yeah, no, so I will tell you so kind of going back to the smorgasbord analogy of, you know, putting food out on the table. Like, I couldn’t get an answer out of them. What do you want? What do you like? And all they wanted all they wanted to hear what I finally got out of, and I did this. I did this pretty well, you know, I presented them like seven options. Here’s the price range from A to F, right? And what do you guys want to do? Well, I like E and I like, I like C. Okay, what’s the commonality between the two? Oh, I noticed it’s the same manufacturer. Are you guys telling me only like this manufacturer of equipment? Yeah, we only know that equipment. Boom. Okay, so from now on, I’m only speaking in that language. I’m not going to try to give you a bunch of options. What’s the point? Right, you only want to hear that. So in my proposal letters from then on out, in big bold, all caps, underlined, italicized in red, was that manufacturer’s name? Why else would I, why would I put anything else?

Agreed. Agreed. So do that. That is a that’s a nugget right there guys. Don’t It ain’t about you. It is about your client. And we all know that. But do we practice that or do we by default try to, you know, get a little, you know, conversion going on to something and maybe with a bigger margin or you know, again, don’t get too salesy on these things. Not here now, man meat and potatoes, meat and potatoes.

Keep the lights on.

Yeah. Well, guys, we’re at 38 minutes and this is perfect. Yeah. pretty solid. So let’s, so my, okay, I’m going to start and we’re going to go backwards. Clint, you should drop this deal, drop this deal. Go get other ones take all this pressure off of yourself. You’re allowed to like miss a deal. Because you know what, let’s call this exactly what it is. If you had been sourced, if you had sourced this deal, as opposed to picking it up and trying to save it, it would have gone completely different and you wouldn’t be in the spot. You are not, you are not under the pressure of this deal. Drop it and go get other ones. Nan, what do you got? We’re going, we’re going backwards. You’ll get your turn, Al.

Well, I was just gonna say to prepare to be beneficial. So you know, don’t don’t waste your time. It’s kinda like running a marathon. You’ve got to prepare. In other words, you got to train and then you get to do so. I think I I don’t, I disagree. I really think that Clint is in a different time he’s prepared. Maybe I I mean, I think I think he’s gonna be okay. I think it’s gonna work out, Clint.

Man, look at all that hope, I love it. Al?

No baby, I got, man, you drill down, you get that Sunday best out, you round the chillin up, you bring a covered dish that you know and you roll right into that front row and hopefully it’s a charismatic church where you got a lot of this going on and some dancing in the aisles. A lot of chorus lines to keep running over and over again and you shout to the rooftops. A/C baby, HVAC, HVAC.

I like it. I will tell you, Nan, I’m with you. This deal is not dead. And just out of spite. I promise you I will. I’m going to show the proposal letter signed.

Look, dude, like,

And baby not doing…

I’m gonna rip my shirt off with that Superman tattoo on my chest.

You don’t even have to rent a bobcat for this hole you’re digging on yourself man. This is awesome. This is so great.

Oh no, this is beautiful man. We’re keeping track of this and I challenge everybody else to bring a difficult project something that’s just kicking your ass. I want one from the three of us. Clint’s got his and let’s talk about this stuff in real time as it moves forward. Not if, not belabor it, but come back to Clint, how’s the church project going right?

Signed, done. We start tomorrow.

So real, right? Right. If you’re listening to this and you know, Clint, and you’re connected to him, reach out to him and ask him where this deal is like, I don’t care when you’re listening to this thing. Pick up your phone, text the guy send them an email, like hassle him about it.

I love it. This is good. This is the way to get it done.

He wants this pressure on himself, let’s just add on to it, hold him accountable.

Guys, I’m scared this much, double goose eggs. Zero.

I love it I love it so much. We, like I’m gonna, this is gonna have its own website. It’s gonna be Churchgate 2020, can Clint close the deal?

It’s already done the day I stepped on on site, it was over.

He’s gonna, he’s gonna end up like like, like buying them a car to get this deal done.

Okay, this takes it, this also hold on. This is what makes sales fun right, this challenge and the fact you can laugh your ass off after sales calls all the time. I mean, I’ve got a whole laundry list. It’ll just make me bust out laughing going. I was either the biggest dumbass or they were being the biggest jerk. I mean, this is the cool part about sales. It is a different story every time you go sit down. There’s nothing not to love about this. Even with the struggle.

Well Cool, thanks guys. I appreciate the the rundown and the advice that I probably won’t take because I’m me, but I love it. not gonna take any of it.

Not gonna take any of it but… Tune in next week, we’ll be back here talking about other sales stuff trying to help everybody improve. If you know someone in sales who is struggling, please share this with them. If you’re watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe, leave a comment we read every one of them. If you’re stuck on a deal yourself and you want to let us know about it. Tweet us, Facebook us, Instagram us, @salesthrowdown. We’ll talk about it, we will be as detailed or as vague as you would like. So tune in. We’ll keep working at this stuff, and we’ll see everybody next week. Thanks a lot.