Finding New Opportunities for More Sales

Episode 44


Let’s get ready to Throwdown!

What’s up everybody? Live Lunch Break part 700. Who knows how long we’ve been doing these at this point? Al’s got his face covering his mask

Yeah oh yeah this is this is my my go to but it’s about it was a homemade mask, my staff made them and so I’m one thread away from losing my protection.

You are flirting with danger sir

I manage danger close

Awesome we have Nannette who’s got a new paddleboard in the background. She’s gonna go paddleboarding I think as soon as we’re done here so and Clint might be joining us, he might not be, you know.

Clint’s MIA.

He’s super important, he’s closing deals hopefully. I mean that would be a good reason to miss the show.

Yeah, let’s let’s hope it some money endeavor and not a you know, one of his other excursions.

And Melissa is right off camera here. So if you guys are watching on Facebook and you want to leave a comment, ask a question, please do. And let’s kind of like hop in right? It’s Friday. What’s been going on this week for you guys, if anything exciting?

I’m sorry, guys, you know me have to jump in. And I think that things are definitely picking up. I’m definitely seeing one of my surgeons, well actually two of them are really busy, you know, just catching up. So that’s wonderful.


So, what I’m sorry, Dr. Daniel, what were you gonna say?

Yeah, we’re just doing our briefing on antibody testing here at the clinic. So we’re going to be testing for the COVID antibodies for patients and anybody that’s interested in that so we’ve sent out and people been actually calling us so we got the test kits in yesterday. Yeah, I think that you know, things are opening up. What I am seeing is not everybody surviving the shutdown, though, number of colleagues that have called saying that they’re, they’re no longer going to be in practice. So we’ve, you know, we’ve come out the other side, I think in a stronger position. So, you know, I know this, you know, I mean, this is just the truth, when these things hit, the weaker hands sometimes have to fold and fold in the sense of, you know, they may not be in the position they were in, they may have to go find another job they may have to So, so those of you that are out there, you know, a couple of things. If your company’s not one that’s going to step back up to the plate, you need to start looking now to make a move. And if yours is stepping up, now’s the time, if you’re in a managerial position, or if you’re in a growth position is to move up that ladder is going to be bringing in some of these newer guns underneath. So So think about this in In a way that gives you a path in a direction, because if you’re standing still right now, you’re losing.

Okay, so I have a question for you, if you were not you with all your connections and experience in, in healthcare, and you were starting now, like, like you worked for someone, you got laid off sales capacity, you’re going to do something in sales again, like what are are there certain industries that you would be looking for or into over others on the on the other side of this if you were starting completely over?

Yeah, I that’s a good question. I kind of I would think that medical sales, you know, is going to be a strong arena. I just had a visit with my daughter who’s a sen- soon to be a senior and she’s in the kind of a communications marketing kind of arena. And she was looking for internships in like event planning, and all these big venues run, you know, she’s like, There’s, you know, she was in discussions about what she was going to do this summer and all of that’s gone. Right with no, no real indication of when they’ll be back. Right. So, if you’re good at sales, you can go anywhere. Yeah, right. I gotta find somebody who’s selling something and go sign up. It may not be the dream of position, but it’s a position and then go sell.

You know, what, what are things that you mean? This This COVID has identified what are things that people cannot live without? Well, the silly things, toilet paper but, you know,

Okay, let me throw out some names. Cisco, food sales, McKesson, okay. Henry Schein, these are these are these are distributors that distribute into the medical arena and they are huge. If you’ve got a track record, I would be looking into it. Food transportation, I’d stay away from airlines I’d stay away from venue events, you know, those are the hardest hit industries I yeah, I think you go back to the basics and IT sales I think you’re going to be big I think the internet is going to be wrought with a lot of abuse. And we know some people from our past experiences that are in that Internet Security arena. I personally it probably wouldn’t be a fit for me because I’m a stumped when it comes to that. I mean, John has to invite me in every time to do these meetings because I can barely find my ass on a computer. But you know, I think low tech is in. I get a I get a lawnmower and start mowing grass, right. You know, different things that just never go away. The grass always grows. You know, again, I think that used car sales are probably going to come up. I don’t think new car sales. I you know, that may wane a little bit but people constantly need you know, those kind of things. So consumer consumables, right, those are those are areas I’d look at.

What about for you, Nannette? Do you think of any you know, if you were starting over would you say in healthcare or would you make a move on the other side?

I would stay in healthcare, I people are always going to be sick people are always going to need their medicine. I was just talking to one of my neurosurgeons literally an hour ago, and they’re having issues with patients and their prescriptions diabetic that one of their patients is diabetic and just struggling, you know, that’s something that’s the people are gonna always need, you know, Al mentioned, I’m cutting grass. I not not trying to argue or anything, but I used to have a lawn guy and I cancelled it and I’m doing it myself and I you know, I think places that you can Save money whenever there’s an issue is what people are going to save money. So think about, you can’t get your medication, you can’t diagnose yourself. You have to med- I just think medicals. I mean, I hate it, probably because everyone can’t do that. But I think that’s just an area that everyone’s always going to need. You know, that’s what I always told my kids, you know, and they both both, all three of my kids, not both of them. All three of my kids married in the medical and I’m like, I always laugh. I thought, well, maybe I preach that too much. But I do think that is think of what you cannot do on your own that you have to you have to have an even the food thing, you know, and like the water thing. I mean, I don’t know. I think it’s I think there’s a lot but I think medical is what’s better than medical that you don’t. You’re guaranteed you’re gonna you have to have help with that.

Now. I’m going to tell you guys something out there. When I walked into medicine, you know, the sales aspect of medicine. And I looked across the table and I saw some sharp individuals, it’s not for the weak, you better bring your A game and you better stay the F on top of it. Because if you get that opportunity it’s one where you don’t get very many mistakes that you can you know, that you can suffer through because it’s a it’s a cortical game you got a bunch of high end personalities and these guys want you know, doctors want what they want when they want it. You got office managers that are under the gun to make sure these practices run. And so yeah, it’s it’s one where, you know, the survival of the fittest.

Yeah, right.

What about you, John?

You know, I think we should go if I was starting all the way over. I would probably was like no connections or anything, I would probably go I think I’m probably going to something of like a product, right because like If the consulting thing is kind of difficult, because a lot of people were like, How do I know that I can trust you and stuff like this? So the, the social proof requirement, and what I do is rather extensive, right, you know, testimonials and feedback and everything else like this. Whereas, and this might be me thinking that the grass is always greener kind of deal. But like, I think that with a product, you can show up and be like, hey, like, would this thing help? Right? And you’ve got, like, a tangible thing that he really like, Oh, yeah, that would help or wouldn’t, right? Like, I know that I’m smart, like, my clients get value out of the work that we do together. But like, if you don’t know who I am, okay, how much do I really trust this guy’s process and brain, you know, power or anything like that. So, I would probably go down the path of like, creating like a, either like a SaaS product, you know, like, like a software as a service, or Okay, something, something along those lines, just because I think that I think it’s easier to do that kind of stuff on like a volume play, then doing some of the stuff that I’m doing which is much more like higher ticket, you know. Because you got to be in a market and fishing in the right holes for those things to land well, you know, if you can figure out like a, like a decent widget, right that you can just produce and market and sell well, and I think I think that’s kind of the dream.

But you know, one of the things that just came to mind is if you know if I was starting, not completely over, but if I was in a sales role, say I had been just in the hardware side of things where I was selling to surgeons, I would be looking for a lateral move, right? I would be looking at everything from pharmaceuticals to tissue sales to biolog-, you know, the biologics the whole gamut. And they’re, I mean, if you’re in an industry and one segment or one vertical is not working because of COVID. Start looking at other verticals that sit left or right to the vertical that you’re used to right. So get creative, and I would call People and I would literally be hat in hand wanting an opportunity. And you know, pride cometh before the fall, because at a certain point, if it’s starting over, it’s starting over, get your head out of your butt, you’re starting over, you’re going to take less, you’re gonna have to get back to, you know, working harder and longer. I mean, it’s just the nature of the beast guys. So it’s not the same world.

Well, and that that was something that I was gonna say in relation to when what what whatever you choose, whatever you think, is the smart avenue to take. You better have a it sounds like opposite but you better have a leadership, heart and a servant heart where you better be able to motivate yourself and be willing to deny yourself to help others or you are not going to succeed. I don’t care what field you go into. You have to have servant’s heart, I really believe, to succeed.

I mean, and you got to be willing to eat a plate a glass to get a job. Right. And I mean that that seems extreme, but I’ve seen too many high minded salespeople that that unfortunately, you know, I think that that attitude just I think you’re gonna have to roll up your sleeves and you’re gonna have to hit the pavement and you got to be willing to, to, you know, to do whatever it takes if you’re in that position where your industry is just not coming back.

We got a we got a door knock actually last night. And another one just now. This guy was here and he was trying to sell like Pest Control services right and so went out there it was an okay pitch right he did all the all the traditional stuff, assuming the sale barreling right right at it and everything and so finally, I was like, I mean, can I stop you said yeah, I said, you know, it’s gonna be a no but I’d like to like ask some questions about your role he said sure. This guy is from New Jersey he goes to college in Maryland and all of his a lot like your daughter all of his internships got just knocked down like just completely gone. So a friend of his and sold, you know, the same pest control the year before he made some good money, so he just decided to like pack up, move to Texas for the summer to sell because he was saying that we were opening up faster down here than there than they’re opening up here. This guy is willing to move halfway across the nation.

Your sound just went, I can’t hear you.

Hold on. I can hear you.

You can hear me.

Nan, can you speak? Maybe it’s me, Nan. I can’t hear you. Yeah, I think it’s it’s no, I can hear you now. Can you hear me? I can now okay. No.

Technical difficulties everybody. Sorry. But he I mean, he’s, he’s not here for like three and a half months, you know, and his job sucks. Like I said, How many doors you knock on the day in here. Like, the goal is to knock on 150 doors. And I said, Okay, how many conversations you trying to have off of that? And he said the goal is 60. I was like

60, Wow. Right. That’s right.

So a lot of conversations, you’re going to get good. Right, as long as you’re coachable. Yeah.

Yeah. And self aware, right. Where you’re having to modify your technique to fit your product and fit your audience. Right. Yeah. So it’s not a one size fits all, I think the same dynamic applies, right, you know, getting, you know, you know, getting that pendulum to swing to get that patient or that say, patient that, that client to make a decision, right. And, and using all the tools of, you know, bonding and rapport and going through, you know, you know, some of the trials and tribulations or the pain that these patients these people are experiencing that you’re going to solve with your particular product. Right. And going for the no’s still, it’s you know, don’t I mean, because there’s where you got to choke back the urge to be desperate, right? Whenever I say, John sounds like this isn’t a fit, when you agree and and you know, John needs to come back and either give me a yes or no. Well, if it’s a no then the question is, why is it that you’d never want to do business with me? Right? Yeah. I mean, you got to ask the hard questions to outpace your competition. Because if you show up like every other person that’s showing up for the sales role, guess what? Those people are going to have a hard time surviving. You’ve got to sharpen the sword and get in there and cut some cut some grass. Yeah, gotta get it done.

You know, that? I’ve been I’ve been journaling about this all week. And the thing that comes back to me is like, nobody wants a yes, man. Right. Like, in your in your trusted advocates, nobody wants the guy who’s always going to be like, hey, that’s a great idea, right? They want someone who’s going to be like, Okay, why, why are you doing it that way? Is that really the smartest way? Is there another way that we should talk about? And you can you have the opportunity to do that from the get go because it’s really hard to change that relationship later on. Right if you agree Absolutely. And you get the business by by being the most you know, placating always on the spot you know Johnny Johnny ready guy then like that’s how the relationship is going to work which means you know you might get taken advantage of, you might be too ¬†exposed, everything else like this. Might stop you from going growing your entire book but uh

But but you just hit on something you’ve got to maintain that equal stature as hard as times are we’re still in this together, right. And I’m still here to provide your solution not be your whipping boy right? And you know you’re gonna find a lot of frustration out there a lot of frustration. People are having to do more with less. You go into an office they’re understaffed now maybe they’ve had to let some people go are some people are still out. You know, the big dilemma is we’re paying more people to sit on the sidelines now. So some of these, you know, some of these industries are understaffed, they can’t all their employees haven’t come back. So those are all kind of key arenas. And here’s another thought. Don’t be afraid to take a non sales position in a very strong company, and then push your way into sales. Think about that as well. If there’s a really thriving industry that you have some kind of inclination that would be a good fit for you, but there are no sales openings. Ask if there’s any opening at all. Yeah, right. Absolutely. Because somethings better than nothing. And, you know, poop in one hand and you know, wish in the other one. Yeah, see which one fills up faster, right.

One of the things that I’ve been doing that’s been somewhat successful is, you know, reaching out to people getting into their DMs, having a bit of a conversation. In the in the thing is, is I’ve been playing with lots of different things right. I posted some of the stuff on my, on my Facebook, but these people are it’s so easy for them to be like, oh, not right now, not right now. And, you know, you’re just like everybody else, I don’t really need this, you know, and things like this And to your point, right? I you got to go with that, right? Because Because when you try to challenge that assumption, you don’t have enough trust yet, right? Oh, you guys are just like everybody else. If I say No, I’m not. I know, I have to prove I’m not. Whereas if I’m just like, absolutely, man, you know? I mean, well, I hear that a lot.

Exactly. That’s when you say not uncommon because I do hear that a lot. And I understand where that comes from. Do we have a discussion about that? And and the assumption isn’t always, you know, a fit. And let me tell you why. Yeah, right. You know, again, it’s if you’re polite about things, and to the point people, like Clint said last week about the guy that just called up and you know, threw his pitch and it felt good to quit. If you can You know, because business owners and business still want to do business. Yeah. Right. They’re just gonna, it’s gonna take a little bit more out of you to impress them, that there’s the potential that you could help them through this crisis. Yeah. So I say bring up the crisis, have a conversation around COVID and how, how harmful it’s been, and be empathetic and and ask them how it’s impacted their business and what their forecast looks for. And how are they going to survive in these trying times? I think that’s legit. Yeah, I know it’s legit. Whenever I talk to somebody said my patient visits went from 80 last week to 84 he’s glad for the extra four visits. Yeah. And it’s almost hard to tell him you know, wow, you know, what are you doing because people are frozen in fear. I’m like, What are you doing to get more patients? What are you doing to highlight that you’re open? What you know, because people are locked down They’re not they got blinders on. They’re not seeing lateral. They their creative juices have been stifled. They’re in survival mode. And that is the you know, that’s the quickest death to a small to medium sized business and you have no confidence it’s all being kicked out of you, you know your bank accounts on on empty man, you’re it’s like driving your car, right? You’re trying to get to the gas station, but you’re in the middle of West Texas. You’re like, holy shit, and you’re watching the needle. You’re not watching the road.

Yeah, I think I think it’s hard for my market because I think that there’s a lot of people who have got a lot of preconceived notions about this method of selling that I’m doing, like sliding into DMs, asking some questions, building some rapport trying to get on a call. And they kind of have their walls up. And so one of the things that I’ve started doing was really kind of talking about like, Hey, now You know, we’ve been chatting for a little bit, I’m supposed to ask you, if we can hop on a call to see if there’s anything that we can work on together. But before I do that, is it okay, if I share my big three with you? And they’ll have been saying, either Sure, or what’s your big three, you know, and then I can say, you know, what we have found is that we can do really cool stuff for clients and really help them, you know, increase their sales and everything else in the process and hire and scale and everything. But we kind of got to see some alignment on three major points. So, and then I can draw those out. And so they’re, they’re not pain points, right? Because I think that more and more people are just savvy to the idea of people are looking for pain points. So instead of doing that, which is kind of transparent, and people are used to it, let’s go the other way. Right? Because pain, pain is a great way to get on the phone. But there’s also other ways right? And with people being more savvy, I think there’s a there’s an element of wonder that people are looking for, right like because there’s not really anything new under the sun, right? You get a cut, you get a call from like a marketing guy, you know that he’s only got three or four things in his bag. So You know, you can make a decision pretty quickly. But if like someone and the reason why I like this is because I heard someone do it on a roleplay This is they were using it slightly different than I than I’ve been using it, but it sounded really awesome. I was like, man, I think I can modify that a little bit for my for my purposes, because then then you can do like quotes from like, really big people, you know, because, you know, for my stuff where I’m talking about like data, data driven selling systems, I’m like, hey, look, you know, here are a big three, right? what gets measured gets managed by Peter Drucker, right? The data will speak to you if you know how to listen, you know, by by this person and then another one. So like that there would be like, Oh, right, there’s, there’s a foothold there maybe of like, Hey, I’m curious why these quotes are specifically important to this guy. versus just like, hey, what what’s keeping you up at night? Or what’s stressing you out during COVID? Everything? Right. So

Well, I think you need to be specific because if it’s industry specific, you know Some of the questions that I’m often I’m asking my colleagues and other people that are in business, and these are people I do business with, right. So they, their business is tied to my business. And from an ancillary standpoint, you know, how are your numbers? Have you done? What have you done to activate your previous patient base? What’s their fear factor in this whole equation? What are you doing to assure them that you’re taking the proper precautions to ensure that they have a safe, you know, visit it to the office? Right? Are you proactive? Are you you know, are you still sitting on your hands? And you know, a lot of them are still sitting on their hands. Yeah, they’re there. They’re seeing the patients that are coming to them, but they’re not going after their patient base. And these guys have been in practice a while. They have files that they could be reactivating.

So why So why aren’t they then, right?

Because fear makes you close down? Why do you think al Qaeda can take the guy out into the desert cut his damn head off and you never see the guy struggle.

Okay. So how does that…

It shuts your neurology down?

So because I think that there’s that that’s applicable outside of even just like patient care, right in these clinics and stuff like that because if you have if you have clients, right, go get into your invoicing system and look for those clients and reach out to those people and be like, hey,

I’ve been saying that from day one. If you’re not staying tight with your people, your people are afraid they’re going 10 different directions if you’re not pulling them together, and showing some like Nan said leadership, empathy, you know, in connection, even if they don’t have an answer, at least you know what their problem is? Yeah. I’m saying if it comes back in a week, you’re like, oh, man, I got a great idea for them. I probably should call them back up and tell them hey, what are you doing? We’re doing direct mailers because people are at home. We are literally, I’m doing it myself. Right getting a mailing list. We got a postcard that goes out. It says we are still here. We have an email list that we put together, right? We’re at about 4000 emails that we’re going to be dropping. You know, we’re doing antibody testing, cold call. Oh, here’s another one guys. We have one of our direct reps for McKesson. He’s actually a patient of ours, McKesson, very large, you can look them up they’re a supply chain to health care. They said the US government is ordering and preparing to order more than they’ve ever ordered before for their stockpiles. It’s going to limit the supply to small guys like us. So we’re stocking up, but where things are running out, it’s like it’s like when you guys try to go but toilet paper, we’re trying to buy alcohol swabs, we’re trying to buy syringes, we’re trying to buy gloves, we’re trying to buy masks, there is a limited supply. So if you get with somebody that has the ability to solve those kind of problems in healthcare or any other industry, because not all the problems are being solved. There’s there’s the limited supply In some cases, yeah, you know, it is. I mean, it’s hard out there. But so what? What are you supposed to do? Get in there, roll your sleeves up and start fighting your way back to what it you know, because at the end, there’s going to be fewer, but there’s gonna be more opportunities for the strong. For sure.

Nannette, before we turned on recording and turn on the live you know we were talking a little bit about you and you were saying that you were doing some like email reach outs. Can you share more about that about what’s working and what isn’t?

My main physicians are not opening their offices. They’re not ready to just let me come in. And, but we talked about it last week. If you keep up with your clients, you have other ways to communicate with them, be it an email or phone number. I mean, I’ve been texting all week long with with Everyone in all the different offices saying, okay, you know, and it’s amazing how easily things, it’s a lot easier to communicate via an email or a text than it is to have to drive to the location. But but that that doesn’t matter if it’s easier, but it needs to be done right now. It doesn’t matter if it’s easier later because people want to feel appreciated. So you’re not just gonna drop them a text or an email, you know, you people do well when you when you appreciate them by showing some love, basically, so, but right now, texting and emailing every day, all kinds of people.

Is that to kind of nurture the existing relationships you had? Are you actively prospecting for new relationships via text and email?

Well, I am not actively prospecting with no, I don’t I don’t think I think you have to. I mean, you know, Al could say well, it’s like a advertising. But, um, I, you know, we Al and I talked about this the other day that I do, and maybe that’s because I’m an S, I do better in front of people, you know, building that relationship. I don’t, I don’t think I would do well just reaching out to, you know, cold calling via email. I mean, I’m not gonna do that.

Well, and a lot of times, you know, our business has such a relationship one on one, because we do we and we interact with, you know, some hospital systems on getting our product on the shelf, but it takes the doctor to use our product off the shelf, right? So he has to say, hey, go go down to supply and get out in the next tissue or I need this particular product. So we have to have a champion inside that system. So that’s that relationship that takes you know the building and that’s just the nuance to healthcare to what we do. I’m, I would never discourage anybody from attempting to create new business during the during these times. Right? I think some of the best relationships can be forged during trying times, because you really are appreciated for the benefit that you can bring to that equation.

Yeah. Nannette, you were gonna say something.

I’m in agreement with him. I I think, um, I don’t have a I don’t think it’s bad to reach out to people that you don’t know, via an email or a text. And it’s outside that, you know, I think I’m just going to be more successful. But as Al said, this is a good time to try it.

You know, I think my one of my big concerns, and I think this is something that we should all kind of consider as well, I mean, I don’t need to be the Debbie Downer today. But I think sales roles are going to change with some of these issues, right? The the ability to just let some walk into your business, you know, may be a bigger hurdle than it even was, you know, it was already hard to get through the ba-, you know, get to the back. Now, you know, it may present itself it, you know, to be even more difficult to get a face to face. So you got to use some of this. And I think that Clint hit on it, where’s, you know, his, you know, the last sales guy that he spoke of on the show was, Hey, can you jump on your computer and let me go through this with you? Some of that, you know, you that’s got to be in your toolkit. That, I thought that was a great idea. I mean, it doesn’t really apply to what we do. But, um, but I think that, you know, it can apply to a lot of industries of Hey, John, you know, you got a second to jump on a Zoom call or you know, face to face. So talks I can see these your body language because that’s more of the communication, then then the words that you actually say, yeah, and then you can say, Biotch, ¬†Don’t make me jump through the screen and kick ya ass.

You can, you can definitely say those things.

Well, no, but you’d kick my ass? I kind of like the screen between the two of us these days.

I’m just saying that I’m probably not going to be that, that that I in my in my reach outs and conversation,

Agreed. But what I’m saying is you can have fun with this too. And you can make it enjoyable, because you can see the other person and you can get some feedback and you can see the eye rolls and, and just the facial expressions about what you’re talking about. And you can transmit, you know, your encouragement so much more effectively or for a guy like me, or you can see what’s going on in their face and their body posture. And you know, and get a real sense for it because you don’t know how many times I’ve walked into an office and I said, Hey, dog, how’s the practice going? He’s like, good, good, but I know it’s not good. Because I’m like that. So Then the conversation goes forward, and then you start to, you know, unmask some of the issues that are going on in that office. But until I see it on his face, and his words don’t match his expressions, you know, his body language, you know, I’m not getting the full story. If it was just by hearing, it wouldn’t be enough.

That’s fair. And this is slightly adjacent to the main topic, but talking about changes on the other side of this, you know, one of the things that you do very well that I didn’t really appreciate at the time, whenever we’re working together, is you have and you say this all the time, right? I we we run a full bag. Right? And I didn’t, I don’t think I paid enough attention to that idea whenever whenever we work together because you have something to offer everybody, right from like a surgeon all the way down to like a frontline guy and stuff like that. So that way, it improves your ability to get traction and rapport and in it makes all the conversations that you have and to a higher percentage to turn into something long term. So right I think on the other side of this a lot of people who are who network a lot and and all these things should really be doubling down to go look for like adjacent offers that they could either rep, right and represent and get like a finder’s fee or something along those lines or just really just make it put yourself in the position so that way every conversation you have is has the potential to be impactful. I’m all for niching and targeting and like hanging out with your target market and spending time with the people who earn it. But you know if you can go find you know, somebody who does something close to you right so and website world that might be like somebody SEO offer right that you can offer to like other people and get like 10% or white label it or something along those lines. So that way, I can then have conversations about websites stuff. Oh, but you want marketing on another website? Oh, could you tell me more about?And really be able to pivot and in small business worlds, you know, like everybody’s got referral networks and referral finders fees and stuff like that. So like if you’re out there networking like go find three, four people who are doing something adjacent that aren’t exactly competitors, and figure out a way that you guys can work together, right, whether it’s referrals, whether it’s like you making the offers on their behalf or something, but I think I think we’re gonna see a lot more people showing up to any kind of event with more to offer, as opposed to, I’ve got one thing, and if you don’t want it, I gotta go kind of deal.

Well, okay, and so that brings up a real important point, healthcare is always shifting sands, right? Because we’ve gotten directives on we now have to have this authorization to do this particular procedure. So insurance companies are coming up with new things that started June 1, right? So they tend to insurance companies or our current data crunchers. They are just behemoths on codes and how much they’re spending and what arena they’re spending most of their money and they start to stifle it whenever it becomes, you know, kind of a cash cow for our industry. You know, everybody jumps on the bandwagon and you’ve been in this so you know what I’m talking about. And with that mentality, we have to have different verticals, or we get one shut down and we’re one trick pony and we’re done. Right? And I did that happened to me many years ago, I had a very big work comp practice. And then the state of Texas changed the rules and went to a network system where the insurers were allowed to pick and choose the people who could provide in the in the injured workers arena. And guess who they kicked out everybody that had made money in it prior, right? Didn’t like big patient advocates. They wanted you to be their lap dog. And, you know, when I’ve had conversations with, you know, company presidents, who, you know, it’s a thorn in their side, but it’s only because they’ve been misinformed about cost containment and the physician side the participation in it. So, again, those different verticals that you have in your industry, start looking left and right Seeing where you could fit your current situation, like you said, into some of these niche markets that maybe aren’t as large. And but if they give you a tangible product or something that’s sellable. Man, go go investigate, see what you can find out and what the potential is for you to make a living in those arenas.

Yeah, there’s this thing that I’ve been thinking a lot about this week. And it’s, it’s all about like, target rich environments, right? And the more that you can offer your people, the better the more target rich, every conversation is, right? So I’m looking at that stuff very specifically. Because, you know, there’s a lot of things that people come ask me about that I don’t want to do, right. Like, I don’t want to do websites anymore. I definitely don’t want to, you know, stay in that world. I’ve kind of made my peace with it and moved on and things like that. So, but since people are asking me about that, it would make sense to have a good partner, right? Thankfully, you know, I could send that stuff off to Geof, right, because, you know, he’s still in that world. But go find those things. Go Go. The adjacent offers, you know, and get some juice on it. Because I mean, even if you can’t get juice, you know, you can make good referrals out to people on a regular basis which builds trust and builds rapport, you know? Sure, you know, don’t necessarily say no to like some kind of referral finder’s fee agreement just because you might not get paid for it if it’s the best thing and in the industry, and that’s gonna build you rapport and trust with the people that you make that that introduction to that, that has its own worth.

Well and in I kind of see this through our conversation as being a divide between IT and service industry, right? And, you know, selling that and then consumables, right, what are people people still have to eat, people still have to buy tires for their car, they still have these consumption habits that are gonna stay there may be diminished, but they’re still gonna be there. And so if you can find your way into a consumable product, that is, you know, that’s driven by consumer demand there’s gonna be a need for those markets to expand. And they need sales forces to get that done.

So for sure, man without Clint here we get a lot more done.

Well, we definitely take the positives and move this direction. So, yeah, hopefully Clint’s on the golf course or out drinking at a bar something you know doing something productive with this time he’s not locked into

Closing a deal.

Yeah that to that. Yeah, I mean construction. Yeah, I think that you know, on the local market in the housing industry, I mean, we we’ve seen, you know, a little bit of a decline, prices are holding up but just the market hasn’t come back because people are afraid to show and tell houses and do all that kind of stuff. But um but I You know, it doesn’t have to be the same industry, guys. I think it’s the one thing that I’m throwing out there, because if healthcare went away, I would be okay. I’d find something. Right. Yeah, I, you know, I present Well, I think that I don’t mind having a conversation. And I’m not afraid of the no. And I don’t think any of us are. And so, you know, when it comes time to get in front of people to say something, or having a sales conversation, you got to be the best at that. You got to be willing to get in front of people, however it may happen. And, you know, and have that conversation.

And that’s the really important thing there because it’s too easy to get entrenched in some version of your prospecting about like how to get in front of people. Use whatever works, right. Just make sure that you’re getting in front of enough decision makers on a regular enough basis, either weekly or monthly. That you’re actually, you know, getting enough reps, right? Because the thing about being okay with a no is about having having no pressure in your pipeline, right? Pipeline’s gotta be deep, right? If I give you one opportunity at a three point shot, or you don’t get to eat, there’s a lot of pressure on that one. If you have 40, no sweat, right? It’s a matter of time. Your sales pipeline has got to be looked at the same way. So, you know, go, go add stuff to the pipeline, like as much as you possibly can, and you’ll feel different. You’ll feel it, shift and get easier in your conversations.

And ask people for help. Ask people for help, not for a handout, but for help, right. Nannete, I’m hoping that you could help me with this. Do you mind if I ask you a question? Or some introduction that’s just outside of because people want to help other people? They really do. I don’t I don’t think there’s any al because I’m always like, I was wondering if you could help me with This Oh, yeah, sure, what is it? Well, you know, I need to, you know, find out who runs shipping and receiving for you guys, you know, can you direct me in that direction? Right? You know, can you you know, would you be willing to help me with this? And if they say no, I can’t give that information out, then I would even say, Well, is there somebody else who could, you know, I mean, if it’s a no from you, sorry, times are hard, I really need to, you know, do a presentation, right? Like a door to door salesman at this point. I don’t want to be mean, if you want to throw me out, just asked me to leave or get the hell out of here. And I’ll gladly go. I mean, you’ve gotta just be that guy.

You know, and one thing that you do very well is, is you can make that ask like, Hey, could you help me out and it feels authentic, right when you’re doing that kind of stuff. Especially me as a C who doesn’t really think about tone. In the same way as like you and Nannette. Do like I really am. My tone with those kinds of asks is like really on point that I’ve got that kind of curiosity inflection in it because otherwise it comes across as just like a tactic. Right? Hey, Al I’m wondering if you can help me. You don’t believe me that actually need your help. Right? It feels like a prompt.

But yeah, but I that someone you though John and I’m I mean, in a certain sense you have genuine conversations in your own way, right? Yeah. Okay. So just be you and in and however you would ask for help, do that.

Sure. But like, I I’m saying that there are some things that you might hear me say or I’ll say or or Nanette or Clint and go out and try to use it without thinking about the about the nonverbal element, you know, the tonality of the pausing, the cadences, the volume, all of those things. And studies show that that it’s much more about like how you say something that what it what it actually is you say so, if you’re going to leave with that of like, Hey, I’m not sure if you’re the right person to to help me you know, is it okay? If I tell you? Oh, I’m looking to talk to you, you need to sound genuinely curious, right? Because when you come across this with that salesperson tone, you turn people off because they’re because they’re making mental decisions about you.

Right? Right. And but but that’s when you’re you like every other guy that or gal that’s walked in there and you’re like, I’m with so and so and you start giving your vomit spiel of what you do to the girl at the front who says I just answered the damn phones. What do you want right now. So in there, there’s the other big hurdle that I see a lot of people fail out is they don’t get to the influence or they don’t get to the decision maker and they give all their information to the wrong individual. Keep it short and sweet. They don’t want to hear your sales pitch. They want to hear what do you need? Can you help me? And you know, yeah, what is it? Well, I need to speak to somebody that handles your shipping and receiving who would that be? Can you can you help me out? Yeah, right. You know, Mind if I borrow your bathroom? I’ve got a throw up. I’m really nervous about it.

I think I’ve used that one before.

I felt that way before. I went to this office and I think hooked it to draw, I was just pushing literature, right. I had no sales acumen at all. I’m just doing my little brochure, my one pager and I’m handing it, she’s taking it back. So I’m thinking all right, the guy didn’t see it. So I come back in I got a different version of some one pager. The fourth time or the fifth and maybe it’s third the fifth time she just brings it back to me and shakes her head doesn’t say anything and hands it back to me. I’m like, I don’t think I’m gonna go in this office anymore. I had been officially shut down because I’m that weak, that I mean, she could have like tipped me over with just a Bush, right? And if you’re not willing to go back to those days, I’m like, I don’t know what to tell you. You know, it’s a shit show out there in the real world these days, and not a complete shit show. It’s just things are tumultuous. And if life’s going good for you, it’s because we do have an audience that some of these, you know, some of our folks out there or still doing well, yeah, go get more business, use that leverage step on your competition, get out there and connect. And hopefully that’s happening for some people out there.

So, the whole thing and everything we’ve talked about these past weeks, is change is inevitable, it’s going to happen. And it’s going to either feel like it’s a negative or a positive. Well, you’ve got to improve. You’ve got to improve your attitude. And so you know what, I’m gonna make the best of this and figure out how to improve and don’t just go gosh, this is what I really want. This is what I want to do. You want to want to be will be what you want to be. Don’t just think about it. Don’t just, you know, figure out stuff, improve, learn something, be braver, you know, like when as I was telling that story, I never have that which, sorry, I know that sounds, I don’t mean that I just don’t have that in my personality.

Good for you. Good for you, Nannette.

I so that’s not where I need to improve. But think about where you need to improve. People learn when they are alone, you’ve been alone, you’re about to not be alone, more than likely. So, you know, hopefully you have learned something you have improved in the time. It’s inevitable. Like I said, there’s going to be change you it’s essential to self improve being alone. You have to be alone to do that. You can’t Yeah, you we we can do this podcast and learn from each other and you can learn from other people. That’s highly important. But you you do need to spend time alone to improve yourself and I that’s my biggest thing listening to all this improve. So AI I would suggest that you need to get out to some offices.

A little less… is what is one thing that is saying I’m just gonna I’m just gonna put it out there Clint like.

Yes, I know I’m I’m rusty as hell at knocking on doors but you’re exactly right. We week it all you know. So guys, you know don’t do as I say don’t do as I do because if you follow me around you might find out how big a weak suck I probably am.

But but but the other side of that right is you got to play you got to play on the field that you’re given, right? Like you’ve been in healthcare for how long, Al? 200 years?

What? 25 years, 25 years, right.

So, you’ve got connections so you’ve got you’ve got prestige, you’ve got you know, social proof.

I don’t know about prestige. But I know I got a I got a phone full of numbers, right? All I got to do is get on and start calling people and something usually happens, something usually happens and nobody tells me to go eff off, right? So I will say that is a plus. And they’re usually willing to sit down. And when you say, how’s it going? What do you got going on? It’s a genuine conversation, because I don’t want to see anybody go out of business. I don’t want to see anybody unemployed. Yeah, I really hope it you know, and if I could ever help anybody just reach out and say, Hey, man, can I have a five minute conversation? If I have any value? You can have it. I you know, you know, free of charge. Just call me. Let me know what you need. I mean, I’m not going to give you any damn money because I got to keep all of that in my bank account for a rainy day. I mean, I’m 30 people. And you know, but I’ll give you some advice or I’ll connect you with somebody and they’ll talk to you as well.

When John asked you, how long have you been doing it? So any of you new bucks out there that are going Well, I don’t have that credibility. Well, it took him a minute to get it and you don’t burn bridges, you treat people with response. You you reach out, you know, you can’t have relationship with people. I don’t care if it’s business, whatever, if you don’t spend time with them. So spend, you know, put yourself out there, be it the email, text in their face, whatever, but communicate with people.

And so I almost starved to death when I first got out of school literally almost starved to death. I was working as an associate and I was making very little money more money than I had but then I had a kid on the way I was going to work a night job and then do the clinic. Right I think some of you guys kind of know the story. Don’t be afraid of taking that overnight job, guys. You know if you got to supplement and do something else, sorry, do it right because I did it right. I got no damn sympathy for laziness. You know, you can sleep when you’re dead, right? Quit with the self pity, you know there and find something.

Very glad you said that I that is a very valid point. I know, probably five very, very successful businessmen. And they all have the story of the second third fourth job doing stuff that they were way overqualified for. Got him to the point, you know, there’s security in knowing Well, at least I’m going to have that at least I’m going to get funds from that. And, you know, it’s, it’s, this one guy

I had a lady, I had a lady I had my resume didn’t count. I had to fill out their application, right. I had a lady that I’d submitted the application and I was going to work overnight at this production company and they ship stuff out and you just, you know, anyway, whatever that job was, and she looked at me and she goes, you don’t want this job. I said, but I need this job. I have a kid to feed. And she I thought I was gonna make her cry. And she was like, Okay, well, can you start next Monday? And I’m like, Yeah, I start tonight if you need me to start tonight. Again, that’s when doors open up though, for you. Right? That didn’t last very long. That’s when opportunity because I was hungry. And I was willing to eat a plate of glass to get out of my situation, not hurt anybody, but do whatever it took to get to the next level. And as opportunity started to come up, I was so appreciative to have them, man, I just made sure I got it right.

Yeah, I don’t know if I’ve talked about this on the show or not, but I took a I took a pretty big pay cut to come work for you. Right. I mean, I mean, you know this, but I don’t know if the whole audience does and so out my daughter was a, you know, a baby, essentially. And daycare is expensive. And so I would, I would get up and be in the OR at 5am with Al these guys. And then I waited tables in a sushi restaurant here in Fort Worth, I worked Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, and then came back and work, the Sunday morning brunch shift. And I did that for almost the entire time that we worked together. Right. So like those Thursdays and Fridays when there were cases and stuff. And we started diving in and we’re, we’re done with cases in about two and then I might have like an hour to kind of like follow up on stuff and then get home and change that maybe at the restaurant by 4. Man, I remember Yeah, that was that was pure hustle. Right and it was tiring and it sucked.

But you’re still alive. Right? Absolutely. Right. Yeah, exactly. Now, it’s good.

Well, what it makes me think of, there is a verse in the Bible that says everyone who competes in the game goes into strict training. You’re not just going to be given stuff like like, stop. I love that John shared that. I love that I’ll share that I you there is training There is you do not expect to be handed things in life.

If anybody’s wondering, Nan just got a richer boyfriend every time. I mean, there’s no reason you don’t. Her mic’s not even working because

My mic is working.

You were laughing at your own jokes that you didn’t hear her comment.

Oh, sorry. I guess I was.

That’s crazy that that would have happened in your life Dr. Daniel.

But here’s the deal. I know guys that have had to shut down the shops and go to work at like Amazon. Right? I mean, there’s there’s nothing bad about that. Right? The bad thing to do is just like throw up your hands and be like, Oh, I can’t, I can’t because make any change.

Because if you get into a situation where you’re recognized is hustling on the front line, right? Guess what’s going to open up opportunities. Right, show me an organization that doesn’t want to promote with them with great people. Right now, now the timeframe, maybe it extends it, but if you can survive, you can then get someplace again, right? Because you got one of two choices either get it done or, you know, I’m famous about jumping off a bridge and stuff, but I shouldn’t go that route. So much trouble the last time. So I won’t say jump off a bridge, but I will say what else is there for you? Right?

There’s always an option. Right?

Yeah, there’s always we live in a still a very prosperous country. We’ve been kicked down a little bit, but the there are better days to come. We we have to get our arms around COVID. But I think that opens up certain doors and opportunities that might not have existed prior to that different ways of doing business. Ways that may be more efficient and you know their techniques, their techniques driven, and I’m going to suffer if I have to go that route. Right? It’s already hard enough. But some of the generation before me and before them, like John, and then you know, the 20 somethings, you guys are already fit for that kind of stuff. You guys have come through all of that. I mean, y’all don’t even know what DOS is, right? Yeah, that’s about the only computer terminology I could even throw out there. That’s how archaic I am.

I’m familiar with DOS. I’m not I’m not that young. Okay. Yeah. So wrapping up, right? Because we’re because we are coming up on the hour. You know, go, go look for it, right. It’s not always just continuously beating your head against the wall, there is an element of that, right? There’s always going to be a volume aspect in selling like, that’s just all it is. And with volume is time. So how do you manage your time? So take, take the opportunities that go, you know, in a richer environment, enrich your skill set, like Go Go figure out how to make it happen, right. There’s in some of the best things is to write write it down, right. Get it out of here. had put it on paper, remove your attachment to it and really figure out if someone came to me with this problem. What would I tell them to do if it wasn’t me? Because like, that’s where that’s where you’re gonna find your answer the majority of the time, we let ourselves off the hook around our intentions all the time, all the time, all the time. We We firmly believe that the future version of ourselves even if it’s Monday, right, the gym starts Monday. Are you really going to be more disciplined on Monday than you are like right now? No. So go today, right? Like, like, think about how you’re gonna feel when it’s done. Right? And this goes for like any activity you don’t want to do, right? I don’t like prospecting, it’s my least favorite part of sales. We’ve talked about this, but I still make myself do it because I don’t get to have decision maker conversations without it. So I know that I gotta have one to feed the other. So there’s there is a there’s a consistency of this, right? There’s a not give up to this, but there’s also like, don’t be, don’t be dumb just for the sake of being dumb. So that way you can be like, well, I tried this and it didn’t work. Right? We have we have the intellectual sides to ourselves for a reason. So,

Yeah, I think you got to get out of your comfort zone, you got to challenge yourself and you got to be better than you were before COVID hit.

Awesome. So if you’re watching this on YouTube, thank you so much for tuning in. We didn’t really get any questions but that’s okay. So if you know someone else in sales who was sharing or who’s struggling, please share this with them. I did a DISC breakdown through one of our with one of our listen listeners yesterday, Andy. And he came out of it with a lot of insight and new information about himself and how he focuses on sales. So if you’re not sure who or where you are or what your struggles are, where that comfort zone line actually is, and you need help getting past that, reach out to us You can message me on any platform that you can find me on, it’s always at john small mountain, and we’re on all the social networks as ad sales are down Instagram, Twitter, Facebook. So yeah, so share this around. If you’re struggling you There’s probably some internal side of that as well. And the only way you’re gonna get past that is to figure out what it is and that’s what these assessments are made for. So awesome. Thanks, everybody. Al is ducking out from the bottom, and we’ll see everybody next week. Cheers. Goodbye.