Let’s get ready to Throwdown.
So recently, someone someone was trying to sell to me, right, and I don’t think they did a really good job of understanding that I am different than they are right because they kept pushing, right. And as a C, I’ve already done the majority of my research before I talk to a salesperson, but I also don’t like that pressure. And so he just kept pushing, trying to close me trying to close. He’s probably an I/D, you know, and and so for him, it’s just like, Hey, you don’t trust me, like, let’s just go and he doesn’t under. He wasn’t taking into consideration. I don’t know if he knows that or not, but he wasn’t taking into consideration that my buying process is going to be different. And so you have to be knowledgeable about that. And that’s kind of what we’re talking about today. So, it’s not enough to know where you are, right? You’ve got to be able to you know, flex and shift and understand that other people need certain things before they’re going to buy, right? When you put a bunch of pressure on me, are you trying to like over rapport or you know, do these things that some? “Yeah, John, I know exactly what you’re going through.” No you don’t, like it, that bothers me a lot. And so there’s little things like that. So today we’re talking about how to figure out what the other person is, how to do that. And then what happens once you know,
Well, you bring up, you know, your story brings to mind. And we’ve all been to restaurants and eating out and had wait service, and we’ve had good and bad in there. But my good, maybe your bad, maybe I want a lot of information. I want to understand about the specials, and you know what you want, because you’ve already looked at the menu online, and you just want them to take your order, get it back to the kitchen, get it back to the table. Right. So this this is very similar to that, I think,
Yeah, you know, it’s kind of this like standard procedure. Now when you go to the restaurant and they say, Hey, I’m so and so, I’ll be taking care of you. And it such like a canned response. And I always think it’s funny because if I see you across the restaurant and I’m like, hey, Jim. Yeah, I’m the asshole. Right? So why why are you even telling me your name? You know, I’ve worked in some restaurants and they tell you like, Hey, don’t do that. Right you know at the at the higher end of the dining, you know, because it’s like this is not about you. This is about their their environment, stuff like this and like, all the things and everything else, but then all like the fast casual, all the Chili’s stuff, it’s like, these people are trying too hard to have too much personality.
Well, then to that point, it’s interesting, because if I’ve seen this, I think all of us like, hey, Jim, nice to meet you. I’m Al. And the guy’s like, Okay, what do you so so you instantly recognize this is horseshit and other people that are like, Hey, nice to meet you. What do you guys do in here? Right?
Right. It’s that that How are you doing today? Right. You separate personalities so
You separate personalities so quickly, right there? Absolutely.
Absolutely. As an S, I often feel obligated to say, Hi, you know, I want to engage because I feel like they’re wanting to engage, but they don’t give a crap.
Well, if there wanting to that’s a different scenario, but you don’t know until you’ve figured that out.
And you can’t figure that out just in the tonality of.
It’s it’s like when you’re out and you’re and you see someone you’re like, how’s it going? You don’t really care. Right? And so it’s
It’s an introduction.
Yeah, exactly. It’s like a social norm.
Pick a better introduction. Exactly.
Right. The Chili’s used to do this a lot. I don’t know if they’d still do it. Or maybe I don’t recognize anymore, but they used to ask you. Hey, welcome to Chili’s. What brought you in today? Like That was a cool little intro because I like that.
I hate that. No, because I’m hungry.
Maybe you’re not right. maybe
Hunger and fear.
Maybe I’m here to drink seven el presidente days, right? So but I like it because it’s not it just it’s kind of a soft introduction. And you could go a million ways.
What brought you in today.
So to the sales point of like, hey, why’d you make this phone call today? You know, like, I like that for whatever reason.
See? Sorry, I was waiting tables once and I’d come have fallen into some of the ruts that are like normal, right? You know. And so you It appears that someone has done eating, you know, when you go up and you say, Hey, are you still working on that? Right? And it’s kind of a dumb question anyway, and I never really realized it. But one time, I’m like, Hey, you still working on that? He’s like, No, I’m still enjoying it, though.
And you can learn a lot about life just hanging out at a restaurant or you know,
Al has been completely irritating.
But what I really despise when somebody says, Hey, let me know when you’re ready for me to get that out of the way like, Okay, this is your job.
Yeah, okay, here’s your signal flag.
Right? Have you been timing my bites and set. You know your
Hey, Jim, I’m ready. Yeah, now I’m an asshole. Yeah.
And then you’re gonna go in the back and spit in my food. Exactly. Yeah, it’s such a weird thing.
So often, I feel like I have to go slow down. I want to enjoy this meal. I don’t want speed eating.
Well, but that goes back to knowing that audience because there are people out there to eat Get their check and get back to work or whatever was going on in their world.
How do you pick that up? Yeah. What How do you as a waitstaff, you’ve got a whole whopping five seconds to figure out who you’re dealing with. Right? And in sales, sometimes you have the same situation. Gatekeepers, five seconds. So yeah. How do you what do you do? Is it you know, in this example of the waiter, waitress staff, is it something that they’ve ordered? The way they’ve ordered it, the tonality that they took with it?
I think it’s it’s a lot of verbiage and tonality and their body language. If you take all that in, at least you’re getting, you’re beginning to pick up on non verbal clues. Because if you’re just going verbally, you’re greater fool than me.
I mean, I hate to just pop in my head, but the big old cowboy that kicks back in the chair and like, I want the steak rare. Yeah, of course, I drop him. Boom. Yeah, exactly. Coors Light draft now. Yeah, we’re still here. Like I can put him in a box. I know exactly where he’s at. Yeah, from two seconds of conversation, that he may drift a little bit from That, and that’s how you dig into this. But the point is I know exactly.
Also our listeners go through your process with that guy right there scenario you just built.
So it’s like, uh, okay, so now I know that he’s a D, right? I know he’s in that corner of, maybe he’s not a, what kind of D he is self aware on where I don’t know all of that yet but I know he’s in that corner of he’s direct, he’s task driven, he knows what he wants, I just need to provide the service and I can probably get out of this. And he’ll I’ll be the best waiter that he’s ever had. If I just stick to that. Yeah, right. If I want to get to know him on a personal level, I’ve got to do a lot of things to break those barriers down to get him personal with me which you know, you pick and choose your battles.
So I’ll go back a little bit of my history I was a Bellman so you know, welcome to the Hyatt you have any luggage needless to say because I’ve used I learned everything I know from working this job for the most part about people particularly. And, you know, there were the businessmen that had one bag, but they wanted to carry it in. Right? Very D-ish. Right. And they want that one winning more. Yeah, in let me show you my stand in there. Maybe they want to present their status, and I was there to do that for them. Because at the end of the day, I want to get paid. I and the conversation was very minimal. For the most part. It was usually have you stayed with us before? Yes. Okay. answered that one. Yeah.
Yeah. So not people driven.
And again, it would be as simple as not one conversation to you got to the room. And then it’s, here’s your key, sir, because you’re opening the door because I hand the key to you. And this is back in the old days. Can I get you any ice? Are you familiar with the room layout? Yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. Give me my money. I’m out of there. Why make it more harder than it has to be? And I like to talk to people. Yeah. But if that guy doesn’t want to talk, why am I blowing up my money, I run my damn mouth.
You know, people have eye contact with you, then they maybe want to engage. If they say More than Yes. And they say yes, I’ve had a great day or, you know, whatever. I think engagement is predicated a lot on eye contact.
Well but it’s also about listening and understanding, you know, whether they see where they sit on the D, I, C, and S.
You know, so to get back to not so much the service industry but like sales specifically, you know, that that little bit of like, small talk, right, whether you’re networking or you know, you you’re you know, you’re there to talk business but you know, people need to small talk a little bit. I don’t like small talking with prospects and it really kind of bothers me because, well, it did for a long time.
Let me ask you, why do you not like it?
Because I don’t care. I’m there for a reason. I like I’m trying to figure out if there’s a mutual fit, and it makes sense for us to work together and if not, I got I got other stuff to do.
Well, but you get there through small talk.
No, I get that right. And and the thing that I had to realize, and I man, I beat my I beat my head against the wall on this, right because it’s like, I shouldn’t need to do this. I shouldn’t need to do this. I shouldn’t need to do this, but I was making it about me and I wasn’t really making it about them. And so then I turned it into a game. Right? So now it’s, I’m doing just enough small talks that I can try to figure out your DISC, right? And are you visual, auditory or kinesthetic? And then then I’m off to the races, right? And then I start doing my frame and you know, kind of going from there. But I think that that is super important. Because, you know, if I am getting, you know, in that small talk, you know, like, how was your weekend? It was good. Cool, right? I don’t I don’t need as much small talk with you. Right. And I start to get like, excited.
But I guess I’m seeing when I said small talk, I want to know a little bit about your business. I want it to be germane to why we came here today. But but it along the way. If the reason you’re buying this is, you know, a new car is because you have a bigger family, then that factors into that equation, or you’re looking at life insurance because you’re uncertain or you need a new phone. You see where I’m going with that?
Well, I think that that is part of your part of your discovery and your pain conversation, right? Like, I mean, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re using it as a bridge, whereas I’m treating it as very much of like, small talk. And I’m very, very trying, like, like, I talk a lot about my hobbies, you know, with people, you know, especially if I’m networking, right? And someone’s like, hey, like, it was nice to meet you. Like, let’s grab a coffee, sure, let’s have coffee, and let’s spend 10 minutes just talking about, you know, like, Hey, what do you do when you’re not working? Right? And Clint has talked about this in the past that, that he likes to bring up a topic that isn’t gonna trigger their walls. So that way he has a he has an easier time of figuring out what their DISC is, right? And I think that that stuff is super important because I, for me, I don’t want to I’m a process guy, right? I don’t want to muddy the waters. I don’t want to start talking about, you know, the pain points and the things you’re looking to do before we have an agreement about like how this conversation is going to run because, you know, this, you know, if if you don’t have a process, we’re running mine.
Well, I was about to say, if you want to know my preference, let’s run my process. I’m sorry. So by all means, attempt to run your process if that if you can do it successfully.
And you got to say When you realize the person you’re sitting across from so my favorite personalities to sell to is C/D’s now, yeah, they didn’t used to be but I love it now because when I ask a question and I get those one word answers to your point, John of like, hey, how was your weekend this weekend? It was great. And they look at you for a lot of personalities probably S and I’s.
That’s really uncomfortable.
That’s a trap. Like, oh, this guy doesn’t like it now. And now you start doing that fish, right? You start Oh, well, this weekend I did this and, and you go off on this tangent, right that you don’t you should have just,
Unless you sit back and you’re aware. Yeah, right. So as an I. I’m like, we’re gonna make this brief. Yeah, but, so move the needle forward.
And that’s the nugget is that’s why DISC is so important for yourself. First, learn who you are. So, so when you see that one worded answer and you’re a high I, you can’t go on this golfing story about what you did this weekend and, had all this fun and blah, blah, cuz that guy just isn’t interested and you have to know that.
Yeah, you can’t take it personally.
Oh, absolutely not. So they’re just being themselves. What’s wrong with that?
So if you’re, if you’re, if you don’t know any of this stuff, right, and you don’t, you don’t know that you’re an I with a high need to be liked and stuff like this, and you’re trying to be chatty, and everyone else is chatty with you, but this person isn’t it’s like, okay, you know, I can see that that’s kind of confusing, right? And I go the opposite way, right? Some people just want to keep chatting and keep chatting. And I’m like, geez, are we ever going to get to the point on this? But that becomes important later on, right? Because if I’m talking to someone like Al, I’m gonna use a lot more stories and like, the, my conversation about, you know, trying to uncover their pains and you know, the things that we’re trying to work on. Whereas if I’m talking to Clint, it’s like, you know, how do we make the best use of your time today?
Yeah. And also to the point of, and I’ve said this before, is when you’re dealing with a high I across the table from yours, trying to sell to a high I, you’ve got to realize you’re not getting anything done in this meeting. This is all just become bonding rapport meeting. It, that’s the way I do it.
So I automatically jumped to that conclusion? Because if you and I talk about a project, Look, you’ve got something to say I want to hear.
But I do it within stories, right? I communicate on the level that I set up the next meeting to get to business. I’m not trying to do business. I’m doing business, but I’m not trying to close it in this meeting anymore. With a D or a C, I can close this today. I know that but with a with an I, the story start coming out and it’s like, you know what, I’m just gonna, this is gonna be the easiest meeting ever, because I’m gonna sit back and I’m just gonna keep asking, and they’re gonna keep telling. And I’m gonna frame some questions about business in the storytelling. Mm hmm. Right. So there’s just a level of communication that happens. And it’s like, you know, what, hey, what if I, you know, shoot that hour went by fast, you know, we really didn’t get to talk about business. But now I get to set a framework to do business next time.
And that brings up a good point. Did you have something that brings up a good point that you can ultimately if you understand who that person is and where they sit on this disc profile, You you tailor make the whole thing go your direction. Absolutely right you use the D strengths to your advantage, that they’re brief, that they want to know what they want, you know, this, and you use it from a C, you know, you start into data points, right. So that you focus in on the meat and potatoes. And if it’s like you said an I and they need to talk, well, that’s part of the meat and potatoes of their, of their, their process.
So going back to something, I think this might be a nugget, I’m not sure. But, you know, we’re talking about how sometimes a small talk just falls flat. You know, if you’re talking to, you know, someone like me or someone like Clint, you know, and they’re in a position to where get they get these kinds of conversations often, you know, and it’s always like the same thing, because like a lot of people talk about go in and look at the photographs and talk about the photographs, right. And I know people that don’t like hanging up like like bogus photographs, just like fuck with some people.
Or that’s or if you’re me, it’s like, Why are you looking at my personal shit right now?
Cuz I want to. Maybe. And you, you’re a good looking man.
And if you said that, you broke my walls back down. Yeah, yeah. So so that’s a good point,
right? It’s like, whereas, you know, when, you know, I said, I like to talk about hobbies, like, like, Hey, you know, what do you do when you’re not working, you know, what you do over the weekend and stuff, because like, I get really jazzed about my hobbies, right? So I can have a conversation about like, hobbies, maybe find some overlap and be authentic. And it’s probably going to be coming from a direction to where, you know, they haven’t had that conversation with a bunch of salespeople. So it’s not going to fall into like some of these normal routines. And I get to play the Clint card of talking about the singing does not trigger their walls, and I’m going to get much better picture about who they are now, the hardest person to qualify, right? Just over small talk is the S. Right? Because S’s are the best chameleons on the planet because they don’t want to rock the boat.
How do you get pain out of an S? I mean, that’s a tough one for me. It just, you know, it is.
Well, how often are you selling to S’s?
Empathy, a lot of times
It’s not, but I run into them as gatekeepers.
So that’s fair. The I think you, you, you almost have to jump to an assumption of looks like you’re having a good day today. Or, you know that empathy of if they look like they’re struggling or, you know, look around and find a reason to engage them through an empathetic point of view is the way I usually do it.
It is it is, to me, it’s really tough to look at an S because they are naturally positive about even the negative situations right? Whereas a D or a C or in even an I there, you’re going to get some some negative stuff out of them. You can if you ask the right questions in the right tonality to the person you’re talking to. But I can dig a lot of pain out with an S, I would have a hard time getting pain out of you know yourself Nannette, like because you’re gonna say, well, this has not that but it’s not that bad. I feel good about the outcome. Or I feel good about the future. You say those things right? So to counteract that, and what I’ve what I’ve been doing and and I do this with all personalities is like well, man, how How do you see us working together to help you get to make that faster, easier?
Exactly. That’s why I was right online. Because they if they say it’s not that bad, then you simply ask, that’s fine, but it looks like it could be better.
That’s a five alarm fire in her book. Uh, not that bad. It might be yeah. Oh, yeah, I’ve learned better.
Sure. For me. You know, because you’re talking about S’s as gatekeepers, and that’s where you normally run into them. You know, when I’ve had success dealing with it with an S gatekeeper. It’s being kind of open and vulnerable. Like, like, Hey, you know, if you were me, and you were trying to get ahold of them, yeah. When would you do that? And they want to help you. Exactly. Right. You know, and so, so being a little bit vulnerable and kind of just like, you know, could you help me out?
Well, no, that’s really important. I was reading an article and it said, the five words and I’m paraphrasing, ‘not sure, but could you possibly help me with this.’ And with an S, that’s going to spark their their compassion juice, team orientation, and let’s let’s make this about the two of us getting something done today, right. Whereas if you say that to a D, he’s like F you, I don’t you’re breathing up precious air I need.
Oh you’re gonna be my savior, okay.
Yeah right, good luck with that.
So you know with, we talked about this on the gatekeeper episode if you haven’t listened that go back because it’s a it’s a truly good one to this point. But a lot of this stuff was you know hey look I know this is awkward I know you probably despise as part of your job and what will they say? It’s really not. So you just let yourself into her world and announce like look if this is awkward at all How do I how do I communicate with you to you know if I if I come in to avoid the awkwardness, does a phone call work better for you?
It’s just asking a question.
Nan does that great, because she has because when we call in a doctor’s office, Nan would I think would agree with this we have to ask the format the protocol for that office. So we’re gonna gather a lot of information from that gatekeeper because we’re one of many that she has to deal with, and we’re new we don’t know. And it’s okay to say that.
And that’s that’s a really good nugget there because I don’t know that I’ve ever done it but I’m sure gonna try this is, you know, has anybody ever called a gatekeeper before you showed up? I call the front desk,
Say I’m coming by and say hey, Nan does it and
so I’ve never done that I
It doesn’t do any good to go in there if you don’t know what their protocol is.
That’s a light bulb that I’ve never even thought about like, hey,
I mean, you can drive all over town.
Hey, I was thinking I was thinking about swinging by I want to introduce my company to yours is is,
Or even better. You’re part of my territory, your office is and I’m soon to call on you. Could you help me out? Yeah.
I just didn’t want to surprise you at your front desk and make your day,
yeah, because it can be disruptive and I don’t want to be that guy.
Yeah, I’ve never done that either. I don’t do a lot of in-person prospecting. Write that down. So what else do you do to try to figure out the DISC of the person I’m talking to specifically in a prospecting thing, right? Because you know, when you’re when you’re talking to the decision maker who’s going to give you the yes or no, you got to give them what they need in the conversation or else, it’s gonna fall flat a lot.
I’ve heard this, this word used and I didn’t coin the phrase, but it’s permission marketing, right? It is. And you can do that I think you with anybody, you can ask a D’s permission to engage in a conversation and you, a C, an S, maybe not an I, you just got to open your mouth and they join in. So that may be an easier task.
I think a lot of times, I’ll go into the gatekeeper and ask a specific question not related to business, related to them related to what color car do you drive, which I know it sounds silly, but you can identify a lot about that person by the way they respond to you.
So we’re here this last week with the coronavirus being hot and heavy. That’s been my icebreaker. And what I asked off of that has so we talked about this and I don’t remember what episode it was, but we talked about what kind of questions I asked to kind of get that, to figure out what spectrum to put them in. Sure. So with this week it was, you know, I just happen to say, Man, this coronavirus is really crazy. Everybody knows about it, right? Whether you watch the news or you don’t, you’ve heard it and chatter and you have anything, you know. Yeah. And you have an opinion. So what I what I said to a guy the other day was, Hey, have you heard about this coronavirus? And you know, what do you think of it’s like, oh, man, it’s crazy. You know, I said, Yeah, I heard they shut down the Houston rodeo last night. And what he says out of that is hugely important to pay attention to. Yeah. So does he talk about the rodeo? Does he talk about the concerts? Does he talk about the carnival and the family time? Does he talk about the cook off? Does he not even know what the rodeo is?
Or, or say sure, and then moves past and not didn’t get a hook
But and that’s okay, because you’ve just classified yourself in a category which was probably a C.
Even a non response is a clue to who you’re dealing with. So don’t be afraid of the silence, that just defines the person you’re talking to.
And that’s why I asked those questions because you’re going to pick in multi topiced topic, if that makes sense, somewhere where you have sub levels that you can go down, and how you frame those questions is big. Because like you said, if they say, yeah, that sucks, right? I’ve just put you in a C/D category, right? I’ve just narrowed it down 50% of who you are. Right? And that’s a no, there’s just ways you know.
No, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s so important.
It is. And that’s why I said that’s what I was saying about a non business question. Because then your next question, which is potentially going to be a business question, you know, where you come from, because the next question now that on too far, if you can, just an easy question not to stress em out.
In that example, he says, Oh, yeah, I don’t know. And now he’s a C/D and it says, Well, I’m just I’m worried about it affecting my business. Do you guys think it’s gonna affect yours? And now you’re into day to day numbers and facts? For sure. And so now you’re now you can now you’re splitting it because if he talks, numbers and facts, and well, you know, we forecast That you’re a C, I just narrowed it down. And then one big question.
And when you when you latch on to whether they’re a C or D, you know who you’re speaking to, then you start your your process. Right? I would suggest that unless you are quite sure of who you are, you’re probably not you’re you’re not using your time as wisely as you could. Oh, for sure.
Right. And the people don’t realize that
I have blown up some deals by focusing way too much on the details. I have. Yeah, I mean, I can I can, I can think of five deals very, very clearly that I probably could have closed if I’d been a little bit more aware of what they needed. Right? I mean, because I want it to be right. I want it to be correct. I want us to be on the same page and everything else and then I’ll go down a path talking about like Doomsday stuff, you know, that doesn’t happen very often. But you know, if it’s recent, you know, and you know, very clearly. I was meeting with this woman and I just got off a call with like my biggest like headache of a client, you know? And so I go carrying all this baggage from that conversation to sitting down with a prospect. And I’m like, and I’m like, Now, look, here’s a timeline. And here’s what we’re going to do and what happens whenever this happens. And I totally blew it. Right. And then the next day, I got the email. Hey, John, I’m gonna wait. Shut down. Okay, that’s my fault. I don’t know if I talked about this on here. But I’ll, I’ll ask two questions at the same time. Like, hey, you know, Al, I’m curious, how long have you been doing this? And what made you decide that you wanted to? That’s pretty cool, right? When you say five years. Awesome, right? Al’s, Al’s not gonna say five years. He’s like well, I got into it from that, you know, and, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna hear but have a story, you know, which is fine, because it helps.
Got me again,
so. So I like I like doing that very purposefully asking two questions. One is going to be kind of shorter than the other one, because the one that they choose to answer is going to be very telling about who they are. I agree.
I like that. I like that concept. Oh, yeah. I was thinking in my head, you know, with a, I think all thinking’s done there.
Or your big toe? One of the two.
You know, I, I have just kind of an S/I personality I was dealing with a couple weeks ago when and I, it worked out so well for me because I now I know these personalities so well that I can I can use the right language. And so with an I, for me, it’s like, Hey, we get through some details real quick. But But our guys, they’re going to figure out the the nuts and bolts, you know, like, let’s get out of here. We’ll let them kind of hash out the details. Like that’s the kind of 30,000 foot view language that I’m using with an I, right? Uh, high I. It’s like, Hey, we’re gonna have fun, we’re gonna kill this, our teams are going to get this done. Let’s put our bean counters together and figure the details out down the road. And that’s the language they use with an I. With an S it’s like, Hey, I love how you know your team really unites to get this done. I want to put our teams together and see if it fits right and to see if we can we can match right? That’s the language 30,000 view that you use with an S. Exactly loving, kissing, hugging. But can I… Well, and then like to a C, right? It’s like a, if you’re not a C, it’s gonna be really hard to talk to C, and you can really screw up some deals with a C, if you don’t shut the hell up. Right. And as a D, and I, and S we’re all faulty to a C in that way.
You know, if it was, you know, talking to John, I’m gonna want I’m gonna focus on data, you know, what do these figures mean to you? Yeah, you know, is that is this all encompassing of the data that you need to make the decision? Do you think we’ve dug deep enough into this? Yeah, those are the key phrases in there and don’t spit off data you don’t know. Let him tell you, right. Let him tell you about the data. Because I’m an I. I’m not a data guy.
So I sell to you, your personality, John a lot that was to a C and what I’ve been doing recently, it’s been great as, hey, I’m, I’m assuming that you data collected a lot of this stuff. You probably have an idea of what you wanna see? Do you mind just sending me that information? And I can go back and kind of get you some answers on this? Because I don’t know that I know all the answers right now. But for as a D to be humble enough to sit back and say, I don’t know. That’s huge growth for me.
But a C loves to hear that.
But in the same token, when we were having the conversation out in the green room before we came in, we were talking about barbecue. And I said, if it’s not proprietary, and you said, No, no, I’ll give it to you. So I’m asking permission to get this recipe from a guy that likes to be asked permission to get information. One hundred percent, right? It will flow that easily when you categorize people, and then understand the box they live in. So you can’t do it without the knowledge of why all this works. But if you will, again, hit on some of these points, refine them, wow, you’re you’ll engage in conversations easier, they’ll be less stressful for you in more profitable at the end of the day.
Yeah, just, you know, be really cautious about being fake about all this right? And you can’t go. So over the top. Because I see this happen all the time I get guys that come into my office and sit down, look around my office and they see family photos, they see, you know, sports pictures, they see Marine Corps flag hanging on the wall, and they put me in this corner and they’re going to go over the top to talk about these things. And it pisses me off, right? Yeah. Because this is my world. What do you know about my world? And why are you Why are you trying this? Well, I called you in to talk about installation. Why are you talking about this shit? I mean, that’s what goes through my head because they went over the top. Yeah, if you can frame it around, you know? Oh, cool, man. You’re in the service. Sounds cool. Appreciate it. Hey, family and kids. They’ll you know, you know how many kids do you have? You can ask me those questions. And I don’t build walls at all around that, I answer. Just know when I answer it. You got the answer. Move on.
Mm hmm. be moving in a direction not just sitting idly on this superficial level of not attempting to go to go to the business.
Don’t assume because I have a family photo that all I want to talk about is family. Right? Don’t assume that just because I have the photo, just means that I have them. Right.
Well, I think the I, how do I say this? I think the thing is, is to not make the the assumption that that’s going to get you rapport. Right? Like Yeah, did that I think that some people are just like, desperately clawing for a little bit of common ground, and then they latch on to it and they hold it, you’re not going to have common ground with everybody. Right? And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
Whereas I know, I know, a lot of people who sit firmly in the, in the I category, right, and they have all of this hang up around, I got to spend a certain amount of time with someone before we can talk about business, you know, and I know people out there networking, right, and they’ll have four or five meetings with someone because they feel obligated to spend a certain amount of time and god knows where they’re pulling this metric from. That that will on the third week. Meeting, that’s when we can start talking, you’re going to have three meetings with someone before you even turn into business. like you’d like setting your time on fire.
But yeah, but to that point, you know, when I, when I came to this company that I’m at now they there was I was going through some old just files from years prior my position finding some old paperwork. And probably about six years before me, there was a guy that developed some really good checklists, right? And he, I could just tell by his folder structure in the S Drive, that he was a C to a, you know, just a C. And it was funny, because that year in the financials, they actually, they didn’t grow sales, they grew profitability, because of all the qualifications that he did with this paperwork. So excellent idea. But I looked at it, and it was a very one avenue approach. So it was like, Hey, you know, let’s get some rapport built with these people. So here’s a section. So as you’re talking to him write these things down. But the section was like two lines, right. And then the next one was like all the data and facts that he thinks is important. So it was a whole page out of a three page little thing. So the thing is, is that that might work for one personality, but you’re not dealing with one personality all the time. So that checklist has to adjust. You know, bonding rapport is bigger on this one. And the data and facts are less. Right. On the next one. It might be all data and facts and no report. Yeah. So you got to, you got to adjust to who you’re dealing with.
Yeah, to that point. I was thinking, you have to be mindful. A lot of times I walk into a scenario that it’s not just one person that I’m having to
yeah, oh, yeah, you guys have got three different sales to make one sale.
Have to really identify and be really mindful of your words because you don’t want to offend the D or irritate the C, you know,
Because the doctor can really like you, and you’ve done outside things. But the gatekeeper feels threatened by you because you have this open door policy and that disturbs them. That’s going against the way they normally handled their position in that office. Be highly aware of that and Nan does a good I think I do a good job of that as well.
Be careful. And you know, like, we’re in Al’s business, he has all these employees. And, it’s not…
Sounds like I’m a multinational company. Felt good.
Well, I just said that to stroke the I. But anyway, so
The head games we play on this show.
Don’t stroke the D.
And I seem to be the whipping boy on all of this.
He loves it. So, so my point, can I just my point is I can go in and a surgeon just to your point and go in and walk into the room, there’s the office manager, the surgeon, the PA, you know you so you have all these people, all those people need to not get mad at me. You know? And you know, initially you you would think oh, the surgeon does not need to get mad at me Well, if I to what I was gonna say about Al’s group, his office manager, if you make her mad, then he’s not going to be happy. So you know every office has that dynamic. So you have to be real mindful of that.
She’ll come back and go, he’s such an idiot. And I really now have to start justifying whether I’m going to do business with this guy that’s going to disrupt My, my, my CFO, right. And and she’s got, you know, she’s a C/S because you know, she’s taken the DISC.
Doc, that’s, that’s a good point. I think a lot of people do right because you’re so sales hungry most people are, you’re so sales hungry that you that you just kind of overlook some really key indicators and do bad business. Right? And, and for me in construction, it’s used, like, if they want all this information, so laid out up front, imagine when we actually start building, that’s gonna so I either staff it correctly to match it right to the criteria that they’re doing, or do we really want to put up with this client? Because it might be more work than what we’re used to and we don’t we don’t fit there.
Nan and I fight about that all the time, because I’m like, then shut the account down. She goes, No, it’s salvageable. And then we have a level of frustration on our end, because I’m like, it’s too much trouble. And she’s finding ways to mitigate that trouble. And then she knows now she’s got a balancing act between me and some of you guys may live out in that world, where now you have expectations from your company, you’re trying to match them with the process of the client that you’re calling on. And you’re sitting right in the middle of this shit show.
That’s why if you’re the owner, or the doc or the lead person, you better diversify with your employees and not have everyone like you. I mean, it’s important, but you better hit all DISC? Yes.
Well, you know, I think you’re talking about basically, well, I think we’ve talked about, you know, the, in some instances, the best way to get to the decision maker is to cultivate, you know, an internal champion, you know, someone who’s going to like talk to you up and everything else like this. The other side of that, right, is if, you know if that admin person is a C, and they’ve they’re very process driven and stuff like this, but like, you have good rapport with the decision maker who’s the I and he’s like, yeah, you can come in whenever you want. You better make sure that’s okay with her with her, right because they…
She has a process people coming in, or he has a process that people come in through that door, and they want to see it the same way. And we all run our businesses that way. You know, you know, when you sit in a position, either the gatekeeper or admin or whatever stage it is, you’ve got a process in your day. And so this may not be a one and done you may have to learn five of those depending on which department you’re going to get information from for budget, or projections or what they like for lunch, you know, simple things.
Can I say I, I feel like if you’re listening to this, and you’re new in sales, you might be thinking, well, gosh, is this just kissing everyone’s butt? You know, and totally not true? Totally what you are learning to be house you’re being smart, you you’re being intelligent. Across the board, you go to a restaurant, you go to the grocery you go to market wherever you go, you’re gonna, you’re gonna do well, you’re going to fare well, if you know how to react to other people and interact with other people more importantly.
I mean, everybody at some point has had an interaction with someone and then they left and they’re like, man, I just don’t like that person, right? And you can’t even really put your finger on it sometimes, you know? And then
You have a couple of options at that point, too.
Well, I like we’ve all had that interaction. So don’t be that person. Right. And part of that is just personality driven, right? I mean, if I’m talking, I okay, so I had coffee with a guy this week. He was a super high I, like man, just super chatty, super chatty, super chatty, is supposed to be an hour long meeting about working together and doing some things like this and kind of like a, like a partner agreement kind of deal. And it ended up being like two and a half hours. And at the end of it, I’m just like, man, like, I’m so ready to go. But there was no, there was no opportunity in the conversation to do that. And I didn’t do a good job of like setting a frame around time whenever we sat down. Sure.
He didn’t mean he didn’t have Melissa call you at the hour mark. And, you know, maybe that’s an out.
That that is an out, you know, there for a while I would do this thing to where every appointment that I would have on the day, I would set an alarm so that way because like I’m known for, you know, hanging out and like chatting a little bit, you know, especially if I’ve got good rapport with somebody. And so the like that would kind of keep me like on track. Oh, I gotta go to the next one. I gotta go to the next one, you know, especially when I’m out there doing like a lot of coffees a lot of networking.
And that goes to your point, I’ve gotten to where I have a daily timer instead of scheduling, I start writing down what did I really accomplished as I can I’m the king of fooling myself and thinking on a day that that I should be selling that I’m doing admin or I’m goofing off is what I’m doing. And when I look back at my log, I’m like, you got to do better than that, man.
Yeah, some people really need to not a to do list but a got done list.
Yeah, that’s that is for me what I get done today.
But also notes, I think it’s really important to take notes. Don’t expect yourself to meet with, I don’t know 10 people and remember everything about that person.
Where do you put those notes?
I write down, I’d keep notes all the time. I like them.
But not like a like a CRM, not not like a formulized thing. If only we knew someone who could could set that up. Right. That’d be really interesting.
We’ll look into that. I don’t know, is there anyone out there like that we’ll talk.
I know a guy. You do? He’s not any good though. So once you know this, right, you know, you have a vague idea of where they are now. Now, here’s the deal. There are other factors, right? I’ve been wrong. Right? You know, I’m doing my my kind of small talk and then super short everything else. I’m like, Man, this guy is not chatty. Okay, great. Let’s stick to the point. Let’s figure out the tasks and let’s go. And then you hit something and all of a sudden, they turn chatty, you know? And it’s like, oh, I was wrong. Okay. And then how do you adjust right? And how, how often are you checking in, right? Because if you make if you make a gut decision within the first 30 seconds of a conversation, and you’re not willing to say maybe I don’t have the full complete picture, and maybe I need to adjust like you’re hurting yourself as bad as the guy who does doesn’t take any.
I probe constantly, as I’m talking, you know, asking questions, my questions. And I spent a lot of time on the drive to the day prior to this meeting, just running these like, hook questions and ahead of like, if I asked that, what’s the outcome? They could go this way or that way, okay, if they go this way, I need to have another hook.
That’s really a flowchart your sales conversation?
Well, no, but keep it natural. Because if your scripture you know, don’t get too bogged down in this, do what it takes for you to remember the pattern of questions and some of your hooks that’s really important and have that sort of marinating. But if it takes a turn, stop for a second and don’t be afraid to say I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand where we went, right.
Yeah, I feel like I’m constantly asking not permission, but things like I don’t know if you want to talk about this or not, but you know, the other day I went fishing. You know, I’ll say something like, then it’s like, oh, yeah, I know, I like fishing, you know? Or the other answer could be, oh, man, where’d you go? What do you do? Right? And you just kind of start splitting that off. And if they say, oh, man, that’s cool. You know, you went fishing, what’d you catch? I’m getting that drier personality, right? Then it’s like, oh, well, I you know, we got a tuna. You know, it’s pretty good. You know, that’s probably my favorite fish. But anyway, back to the business, you know, and he kind of just start switching those, you know, that flow, right? You just,
Do you go that far off the reservation? Like, I mean, I mean, you’re talking about business, and then you’ll just pull up an anecdote about fishing.
Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, it’s got flow, right. But you know, the thing is, like breaking the monotony of where somebody in the room might want to talk more, one guy’s completely done with the conversation. So how do you balance that right? Because you have a high I and a high C, because he’s the salesman that brought you in, but he’s the C that trying to get data and facts out of you. So I think you know, me personally, I like going in with the sales team. And I like to know who I’m dealing with. If they’ve got a C, I want a C. They’ve got an I , I want an I. And and I try to do that as much as possible. So, you know, earlier you said something like, I don’t remember what you said, but if you recognize it, and it just kind of like I don’t like that guy, figure out in your team who would match well with that person and sell through them. I’m a huge,
Team, thats that’s so good. I like that.
But I mean, I really use that a lot like, Hey, I’m about to meet this guy, I need Ken to go along with me. And on the way there, it’s like, Hey, Ken, I really need you to stick to topics, these topics.
Nan and I plan that out all the time?
Yeah, and not everybody has that right?
At all at their disposal, I was gonna say that, that there’s a level here that you’re playing at, to where to where they, where there’s large committees, you know, there’s multiple decision makers and stuff like that. And in those instances, you know, you need a team, most of my people are individuals or small business owners or you know, solopreneurs or whatever else. And I don’t need a team because it’s just like, let’s be, let’s be efficient and figure out if this is a fit, and if not, let’s call it over.
Yeah, so, an example of this as a couple weeks ago, there estimator, the GM selling to their estimator and their project manager who is the decision, the ultimate decision maker, the project managers, but he listens to all the data from his estimator to make that decision right? There asked me to come over and basically interview for the project. Well, if he’s going to have an estimate, and I was asked, who’s you know, who’s in the meeting? What should we expect? How long do you need, we frame all that up? And he says, he’s gonna have his estimator there. I’m bringing mine. I’m bringing my estimate, I’m bringing the counterpart to answer the questions that I’m not going to know the answers to. And if I bullshit this guy, he’s gonna call me out on it, and we’re going to really look stupid, right? So on the way over there, it’s like, hey, when he asked these questions, I need you. And I may look at you and say, Hey, Brian, I need you to take this question. No, because I, you know, honestly, I don’t know. But Brian here will try and get into it. And in that situation, I’ve already had really good bonding rapport with this salesperson or the project manager that brought me in, invited us to come over and that conversation in the first 10 seconds went straight to data and facts. And these two spent the next hour going over line items and spreadsheets. And me and him were looking across the table from each other. Like, let’s go get seriously let’s go get a beer. But the point of it is, is that
but if you can find the same commonality, and match and mirror, oh my god, everybody feels comfortable in the room, you too are looking at each other like, Yeah, let’s go have a beer because these guys are gonna be a minute They’re digging into this stuff. Let’s take a walk around the plant. Give me a tour. Do tell me a little bit more about this. You have now the single you don’t have to focus between two people with different personalities. Yeah, you’ve conquered and divided and now you’re sitting in the wheelhouse of a guy that you’re going to talk to.
And my fear there is that if I go solo, and he asked me all these hard questions, they might make the decision when I walk away from the room because they’ve had a prior conversation with my competitor that did answer all those questions right? Or brought his guy brought his guy and I’m betting and I’m not saying that you have to be fully prepared. You can always say Look, I don’t know the answer that I’ll get back to you just know that. There’s consequences to not having that data, right? So you take, you’re just trying to lower the risk of every situation that could happen.
But be careful with that, right? Because I hear that and I and I start to think, well, that means I gotta be over prepared, right? And for a C, when you when you feel like you got to be over prepared, you’re not gonna get anything done. Right? You got to be, you know, you either have to frame around it, which is what you’re doing, like, Hey, who else is going to be in the meeting? How much time do you need? What do we need to be prepared for and those things and that way, you’re setting yourself up for the most success possible. But if you’re not at your level, you’re not selling to committees. There’s not multiple decision makers and stuff like this. Don’t go into these conversations with this weight of like, I got to be able to like answer every question.
So one of the most important questions that I do before I go is if they said, hey, my estimator is going to be there. I say, Hey, he’s probably got a checklist. And I’ve said this a couple times today. I think he’s got a checklist. It’s probably on a spreadsheet. Do you mind just sending that over so that I know the question so we can save a lot of all of our time and I’ll have these. If anything, I can get this done before the meeting and send it back to you with the questionnaire filled out? And we can just verify at this point instead of digging into the details? Yeah, absolutely, man, you know, what’s your email address I’ll send to you now. Now I’m prepping my C. That’s all my team to be like, Hey, man, I got you all the stuff you need for this meeting be prepared for, there might be a few questions, I’ll handle those. But I need you to figure this out.
And that speaks to laying that groundwork so that you have a successful meeting, whatever that may be. Brushing your teeth, combing your hair getting there on time. It’s all part of that same equation.
Yeah, we talked about that on on an episode a couple episodes back, you know about planning before you walk in the room, right? understand what’s going on know what know what the expectation is, you know, what’s the home run? What’s the base hit? what’s the what’s that look like? Yeah. So that way you can be as prepared as possible. You know, like, a thing that I say a lot to people is like, hey, look, you might have a question that I don’t have an answer to, or I don’t have like the immediate answer to. I might need to go back to my team is that can be okay. Yeah. And and why?
Yeah, why would you not be, they want accurate information. And sometimes it’s not readily available with what little you know going into the original meeting. Be okay with that and own it, and it’s not that’s that shouldn’t if that damages the deal Wow How does anybody do business with them?
Particularly if you’re as good and as prepared as everybody else and I think it’s quite okay to own your deficiencies Hey not quite prepared for that. I hope that’s not a deal breaker or if you feel like it is then you need to address it Don’t leave think you’re just being weak if you’re not owning that this is going south and maybe you should just call it over I came completely unprepared. Please be my guess it kicking me out of your office. Yeah, right.
And what whenever you own it, you get to control the impact of it.
right and it hurts you less right so you just I’m gonna beat myself up before you can? Yeah, right. It’s It’s It’s like the hopefully that doesn’t happen too often you won’t be successful if that’s your constant fallback is I didn’t go prepared. Well, why not tell you this three times in a row? Yeah. Don’t make that your pattern. just own it. If It happens to be a one off.
So there’s so many books and videos out there that are just one part of the equation that they tell you. This is the way to successful sales conversation. And so I just watched one the other day. And it was a 20 minute video on matching and mirroring. If you want to sell better if you want to do this, you have to do matching and mirroring and it was a whole episode on matching and mirroring. And it’s like, okay, that’s a small part of the equation that might work. But But here’s the the thing that I that I caution everybody on is that almost every big company out there anymore, does some kind of psychological profiling, does some kind of formal training around sales or conversations, almost everybody does anymore. It whether it’s whether it’s a seminar that they sent you to or whether it was a questionnaire, a free survey. But people what I’m saying is people have knowledge of these tactics now. There’s I think the deep state of sales, I think, I think 20 years ago, you’re kind of in a groundbreaking situation where You know, the traditional sales was breaking, and you had people trying these new tactics and like, I don’t know why I like this guy. Oh, because he’s sitting in the same way. My tonality, but people are aware of that more now than ever. Yeah. And so you got to be better. So I yeah, so be careful about when he when he leans forward on the table and you do it and then he kicks back and you do it. And then he snaps his fingers and you do like, be careful with that stuff because you’re going to get caught. Well, if you do that to me, or probably any one of us, I’m gonna say I’m gonna pick that up in 30 seconds like this guy’s a total douchebag, get out.
Well, so you know, there’s the concept of nurturing, right, which is kind of giving someone like the psychological the psychological start to kind of let them off the hook, hey, great question. I’m glad you asked. Right so that we they don’t feel dumb about asking your question or if they have to admit to not knowing something right, which happens a lot in my industry, like, like, if we start talking, cuz you’re so smart? Well, no, but like, if we start talking about budget, like, like, no one gets out of bed and like, you know what, I need to hire someone like John to come in and like, help me with this stuff. Right? So. So when I get the budget, you know, and I’m like, Hey, you know, what do you think the investment should look like? You know, and they say, well, John, I have really no idea. Okay, not uncommon, right? So that way you don’t have to feel like, oh, like now. So now what I do exactly, you know,
that’s so great one,
but right now what happens is, is I tend to like over nurture now, right? Because it’s muscle memory. And when I’m talking to Melissa, and she asked me a question like, Well, good question. She’s like, I know, it’s a good question.
I did not like when I hear people say that it’s overly
I’m not even trying to be robotic. It doesn’t diminish the fact that it could be a good question, but like, the thing is, you know, you know, when you go to chick fil a, and you’re like, thank you, and they say, my pleasure and they and they say it in that tone, and you know, that they’re just being like, scripted, scripted. Yeah, exactly. And they have to say it a certain way. I don’t want to be that guy. Right? Because the higher the higher level of the person that I’m talking to the higher my level has got to be.
But it’s okay to thank people for the information that they give you a polite about your engagement, and appreciative because people will do I don’t care, in my opinion, who you are. People want to feel appreciated for their input and their impact on
Most people feel like they’re not listened to enough, especially when they’re dealing with a salesperson.
So. So if you reach across that aisle and you’ve gotten some good information, and you’ve gotten some help to get further your cause, thank those people and, and don’t feel like it was an obligation because they gave you some extra grace and you’ll be back in front of them. And it might be nice to get it again,
When you ask a question, you get an answer. That’s like helping your position, right. I mean, like, that’s the way that it should be, hopefully, you’re not you’re not in there asking a bunch of questions just for the sake of asking questions, you know, like, like, it’s supposed to be uncovering information, your pain points, or figuring out how they buy or figuring out what the timeline is, and all of these things, right. So you know, make sure that you’re asking questions with intent, so that way you’re not wasting that time and you know, then that makes it a little bit easier to shift those questions depending upon the person you’re talking to. right because I can’t ask, you know, there there are some times whenever we’re talking about stuff you know off air and I’ll and I’ll say something to Al, and I’ll see Clint is like shake his head at me. He’s like, and then I’m like, what’s up? You tell me like that sucks. You can’t You can’t do that on me. Okay, cool, right? And so the more the more you practice, the easier it is, in my opinion to then shift the the kind of questioning, right? Because like, like I said a minute ago, hey Al, what do we need to get done today? I make it about us, right? We because that resolves with I’s very well, if I’m talking to Clint, I don’t say, you know, what do we need to get done today? Because it’s not about we in Clint’s eyes. Right. How well, were you looking to get done today? Absolutely. Have you know, is this within, you know, the realm of, you know, how you saw this unfolding work? Are we still on the beaten path? Those What do we need to cover to make this a good use of your time? Yeah. You know, I mean, it’s a very small shift in the grand scheme of things, but you got to be aware of it.
All the frame, all the questions still there. Exactly. Yeah. And
well, you’re looking for value out of your conversation and not your value, their value in what you’ve just said. Because if they find value in it, then you’re on the right path. If you see that they’re just not I mean, you know, do a do a look back in your head as to how you debrief yourself after these engagements and go back over was I as valuable as I could have been? Did I? Did I get it on a scale of one to 10? How right was I? Yeah, and critique yourself.
This is super important because most people try to sell the same way that they buy. Yeah, right. And it doesn’t always very, very work, right? Because I don’t deal with a whole lot of people that are C’s. So if I try to sell to them the way that I want to be sold to it’s gonna fall flat.
Guys at the time, listen to that, right, because I’m an I. And sometimes I’m like, I don’t know that, that I said enough or did enough. And sure, I still get the deal. Which which now I’ve got to convince myself Hey, that’s a good equation. Didn’t feel so good, because it’s just not my natural state. But it worked and I’m getting paid. Shut up and get it done. Just do it that way.
Yeah, I have a you know, the the When you ask a question, it gets to you got to look at your, before the script, right? You kind of lay out some questions. And you said it earlier, but don’t get robotic about it. You’ve got to work that into your natural conversation and know who you’re talking to. So for example, if somebody were to ask me a question I didn’t know an answer to, and I also didn’t see the need of why you asked me that. Is this really important? Naturally, I want to say, I don’t know. Why did you ask that? Like, that’s my natural just I want to say that, right? But if I said something like, oh, man, you got me there. Help me out a little bit. Why is that important? And you know, how do I help you get that information? Why is that important? Maybe Maybe I’ll think about it a different way. I’m asking the same saying the same response and I don’t know the answer. And why is it important? I’m saying the same thing, but but I’m a little more nurturing, right? I’m trying to help the situation. So there are so many things like that, that you have to realize every little thing that you say matters words. Once they’re out there you can go out
and check your emotional state right? yeah get out of the equation just be a Fact Finder be a fact deliver with whatever icing they need on the cake, whether it be empathy because of an S, directness because of a D, factually because of a C, or with lots of emotion and frizz for an I.
That’s a good way to look at is icing on the cake, because everybody’s got a different flavor. Everybody likes to see something different. But the cake is still the cake at the end of the day.
Yeah, yeah. I think this is the theory and I’m totally willing to be shut down on it. I think that I’s and S’s are much more likely to feel concerned leaving an interaction with someone who’s not an I or S, right. Whereas if I deal with someone who’s an I, like I’ve got, I’m still running my tasks, right? I’ve got a mission. I’m trying to figure it out. Like let’s figure out if this makes sense. And I don’t have that as big of a lever of I need to be liked, right and so and so when I talk to someone Who is not on that same side as me. And they’re doing these things like I’m still trying to get to my thing. Whereas I think that and correct me if I’m wrong, that for the I and the S like that lever is bigger have that needed to be liked. And so when you’re dealing with someone like me, right and I’m shorter, and I’m to the point and I’m maybe not giving you everything you need, so that way, you feel like you’re being like, I feel like it’s a bigger struggle for for I’s and S’s, to sell to across that line of being task driven, as opposed to the task driven people trying to sell to the people driven. Does that…
really your but the longer you do this, the less you’re concerned about that equation as an I. Your your you don’t see it that way. But your perception is I walk around feeling like I have to be liked, no, I want to be like but here’s the deal. More importantly, I know people like me, right? Yeah, I mean, I have a good social network. As a matter of fact, I’m got money burning a hole in my pocket because I’m going gambling right and that’s a great endeavor with a lot of cool people like you but when at the end of the day If he short with me or direct your direct with me, or you need some facts, I’m going to provide them. And I’m going to shut up, right? And I’m going to be okay with the fact that we didn’t get Huggy kissy about this whole equation. Sure. But I did my job. Right. And that’s all that was expected.
So there’s a nugget in there that he said, Excuse me, there’s a nugget in there. It’s a well, a, we also have to take into consideration that Al is very self aware of like, who he is because of all the work that he’s done. But if you haven’t gone down this path, right, and you just, you’re like, Okay, I’m kind of like Al, and then you when you don’t know that stuff, it becomes so much harder. Right? Like, like, you know, you have resolved yourself to to the fact of like, cool, I have other people who like me, I don’t need this person to like me, like, let’s figure this out. But if you’re not aware of that, and you’re leaving these interactions, and you’re like, man, like what’s going on? And it’s it’s about how you frame it, right? So if you’re going into conversations with us need of like, yeah, we need to get along. You need to like me before you’re gonna buy for me And then you’re not feeling that then of course, it’s going to feel heavier. So watch how you’re framing the interactions and what what your real goal is.
But But Clint hit on it too, that if he’s not showing empathy or or toning down his personality when he says, why’d you ask that question or I’m a little confused, you know, you you have your sticking points too, they’re just on a in a different arena than what mine are and S’s, Nan and yours? Yeah, I mean, we can all admit we have these sticking points, but we become aware of what those sticking points are. And we work through them knowing that that’s it. That’s our hardest tasks right there for the day. There are things we really do well, and they come naturally and they just flow easily. And the other point we have to slow ourselves down and keep ourselves from being our own worst enemy.
I mean, every personality has a negative and a positive so
yeah, I mean I’ve seen I’ve seen pretty decent sales persons come to me because I’m also a buyer right and and ruin the sale because they’re trying to they’ve tried to over read me Yeah. Oh, he’s a D. So I speak to this task and this drive, you know that he has,
Do you think? Do you really think that they’re that thought out? Because…
I’ve seen it happen.
Because there are other good salespeople out there.
I mean, I’m not saying that we’re like alone on the on the island of like people that are trying to do it the right way. But I just don’t think that many people, right. I mean, we know other people that are familiar with this stuff and know where they are but they’re not putting any thought into. And that’s true trying to figure out who the person across the table is.
I watched a guy last year, like mid November, sit down in my office, and he literally went through the gamut of me being a D, like you could just tell he was reading everything, doing some matching and mirroring and he was trying some things but not he didn’t have it perfected. Right. And so some of the things he was doing was just asking these tough questions to me like, Okay, well, if I do this, will you do that? And I’m like, Well, yeah, maybe if you if you perform it correctly, then yes. Well, okay, what happens if I don’t perform it correctly? right, punch in the face, he’s literally just digging me because he thinks that my personality likes this. But the fact that and I finally stopped them, like, Are you done with your interview with me yet? Because I called because I called you. I know what you do.
I did my homework too, bitch.
I know what you did. That’s why you’re sitting in here. Let’s get this shit done. I got other stuff to do today, you know, so you over read me you over corrected me and now it’s like I said,
There’s there’s nuance right, which is why you got to understand there’s a big difference between the D, the D/I, I/D and the I, right. Like those are four very separate people and you got to be able to fine tune that a little bit. You know, the second letter is not as important, you know, for the prospect, but you just have to understand that like it’s not so black and white. Yeah. Let’s do the Throwdown. Clinton for Team D, hashtag team D as far as understanding this stuff and what you do with it after that.
Man, I think I’ve said this a lot. When we were doing some heavy DISC prof- episodes up front, but checking your own self for a minute, especially as a D that wants to come off as I’m the man, I’m the greatest in the room and all you guys suck and you’re here because I’m here. You got to you got to get rid of that, especially as a salesperson, as a buyer not so much as a, you know, maybe a senior leader, and you have a whole team. Okay, maybe that works. But in a sales situation. The fact of your that you’re there to try to get stuff out of somebody else. Right? And, and your huge personality may not work, right. So you have to learn how to humble yourself for a minute, check it at the door and have a business conversation. That’s tough man. And I will tell you, the more questions you ask. And I always tell everybody that I know that’s a D. Stick to the whys, right? Like, why is that important to you? Like because you don’t have a lot of the compassion to really dig into the why, but if you ask the question, they give you an answer. It shows Just enough compassion, and you’ll get some good data out of it. Maybe you don’t care, truly. But you need the information. So don’t be afraid to just ask, Well, why is that important? Whether you give a shit or not about the compassion, like I don’t want this big, humble story of, or this big braggadocious story about how, you know, oh, well, we think we’re the greatest and we want to be the greatest team on the earth, because that might be their answer. That’s okay. You write down they want to be the greatest people on earth, and how do I help them get there? So just kind of breaking that stuff down? When you’re, when you’re talking personalities, the why you’re gonna start seeing all this personality come out and who this person is, and you’re going to know how to deal with them down the road.
Okay, Al, Team I?
Well, along the same lines, as you know what Clint just brought up. Know where your weaknesses are in these interview process or these through this part of that cycle of determining the other side and get the information you need. Don’t I mean, it’s about them not about you. So go gather that information. And then use it appropriately.
Okay, short and sweet. Nannette, Team S?
So I think it’s really important not to the thing that listening to them I was like, man, so often we go in and we just talk way too much. We just smother people, you know, find mutual benefit for each of you, don’t just go in there with, it’s me, it’s all about me, kind of to what Clint was saying, find something to benefit them as well. Just about you.
Awesome. Um, so for the C’s out there. You got to understand that it’s not about you, you know, and I’ll set that up a moment ago. So it might not be comfortable, but you got to do it anyway. Right? You got to know where this other person is. And then, as a C, you’re going to want to rely on facts and data and you think that that’s going to get it done, and sometimes it will, but sometimes it won’t, right. So you’ve got to be able to give them what they need because it is like you’re not writing the check when you’re when you’re the salesperson. They’re writing the checks. If you can’t get give them what they need. So that way they can write that check, you’re gonna fail, right. So go in there with a little bit of humbleness, which is uncomfortable for a C. Figure out what they need, right? Ask those probing questions, and I love Why questions, right? Because, you know, you’re gonna get longer answers right. And I’m not saying that you can only ask open ended questions, but yeah, you know, don’t pretend that you know it at the surface level, like ask those questions because that builds a ton of rapport because you’re taking the time to really understand what is going on in their world when when you’re asking those why’s and how questions right, how is that important? Why is that important? Other salespeople aren’t doing that. So it’s not about you make it about them, if you want to be successful.
Can I add one more nugget in here? Yeah, it’s really important. So one of the things too, is that you might have to ask a uncomfortable question to a person so don’t think that you have to 100% fall into if I’m talking to a C, I can only talk because to be honest with you that C might need to hear some compassion and why you’re doing what You need to do. So be careful of just one doing a one avenue approach of, well, I matched him perfectly, but this didn’t work out, well, maybe look, people make mistakes, he might have missed something, the S might have missed something. So be be cautious of that.
Well, and I’ll add just a little bit to that perceive a need if you think they need more. Yeah. And you’re in that your perception is there, then then even if they’re C, give them give them more compassion or give them something maybe that’s, you know, because not all C’s are built the same way. Not all D’s are built the same way.
And C’s might compile a whole list of data, that he might have missed a nugget of data, and you have that nugget that he needs for him to be successful. Right. So in my business and constructions all the time, well, did you think about doing it this way? Oh, shoot, I never did well, now all my data changes. But if I just conformed to him, we’ve never got there. Right. Yeah. And the project would have failed ultimately.
And that’s being the consultant. Yeah, honestly. Right. Well,
If I’m presenting some data to to John, who’s a C and I look at his face and he’s looking all concerned. My next question should feel like something’s concerning you here. Yeah. Right. So it’s okay to get emotional with a guy that maybe isn’t super emotional, particularly when you see that emotion on his face. Yeah. And maybe he’s digesting it and you’re sensitive enough to pick up on it? Why not? Hey, John, is there a problem here? You don’t look like you’re very happy with what you’re looking at? Tell me a little bit about that.
Looks like I stung you there.
Yeah, yeah. However you present it, but recognize what’s going on in that room and don’t think that your facts just speak for themselves, even to a C. Absolutely.
So let’s leave it there. Yep. Sir, absolutely. I’m just saying, you know, we got to wrap up anyway.
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