Welcome to the show everybody, Sales Throwdown, we are back. And we thought we would talk about some of the worst advice we have ever gotten in sales. And the minute I said this to Clint, he got super ramped up and said it was about time, I pick a good topic ever. So we’re gonna start right there with Clint man, like, like, what you got, worst piece of advice you’ve ever gotten in sales.
The list is long, but distinguished, I would say. I mean, I’d seriously say there’s at least 10 you know, like, do this thing and you will win. And one of them was pretty recently by a, you know, pretty veteran guy in that industry. And he told me, oh, now you’re doing this all wrong, but you got to go in so low, you know, with your number, just give them a bullshit low number that they have to call you back. It’s so good. And then you worry about getting the price right after that. And I thought, yep, this is who I’m competing against right here.
Wow. Wow, that was
That was just recently he said, Now you don’t know the Houston market. Let me let me tell you how. Let me tell you how it operates. Oh, man. That’s That’s some good stuff.
When you heard that, did you just punch like punch him? Like, like, yell at him? Or do you just say like, okay, or whatever?
Yeah, I said, Yeah, I’m not gonna do that. But thanks.
All right. Al, worst worst sales advice you’ve ever heard?
Yeah, I’m kind of running through my mind. Um, yeah, give me, I’ll take a pass. I’ve got some bad advice. Got them all coming together. Here. Let me let me Yeah, give me a minute to sort through this. I’ve had plenty of bad advice.
Oh, the first thing that came to mind was and y’all might agree with this. Not that I care at this point. But that was rude probably. But, um, I was told by my first boss my in sales. And he said, you know, you go into an office, you meet a doc, and you shake hands a lot of times. And the first cup the first day he was like, oh, man, you’ve got quit shaking hands like that. And I go, What are you talking about? He’s like, you gotta shake like a man like you got to like show force. You can’t just go in there with the mamby pamby pansy little handshake. And I was like, what I’m not, I’m not a man, I’m a female. And I’m a petite female, and I’m going to shake however I want to shake. And he just thought that was so rude and so stupid. But I will tell you that being yourself, being who you are, if you’re Clint, yeah, you go in and shake like, a, you know, a marine handshake, probably. And. And, for me, I’m not going to go in there. And you know, like, Hey, are you doing? And and it’s, I think it’s both me, I’ve done well being me. And I think that’s really important. So when you ask people to change their, you know, whatever you think is appropriate. I don’t think that’s a good idea. Then the second thing is not as lengthy. But the other thing I was told, you know, just book lunches, get those lunches in there. And I’ve seen over and over what failure that is. All you’re doing is feeding 30 people spending $300. And it’s just you know, those 30 people don’t give a rat’s tail. And you a lot of times don’t get to even have communication with the people that make the decision. So it’s kind of silly. I remember one story very recently, that Al and I, mutual salesperson, and they took in food. Remember, I don’t want to name names or anything, they took in all this food. They were ready to feed everybody and then we’re not even going to see the decision maker. And he was so mad. He took all the food out and left. And I mean, I think that’s appropriate. You know, I mean,
Talk about a terrible KPI. Just get lunches. Okay, boss, I’ve got 35 lunches.
You know, it’s, you know, it’s funny, John, as you mentioned KPIs because I was actually gonna say that to Nan is that. I’ve had a boss say that too. It’s like, How many? How many breakfasts have you done this week with customers? How many lunches have you done. I’m like, zero. Meanwhile, I’m killing it in sales, sold out the year in like June, you know, and this guy is telling me Oh, you need to sell more by selling bagels. You know and I always laughed about that. But he you know if He had a little more training, he would know that he’s kind of onto something if you know you get into lunches and they produce results down the road, then how many do you need to do a week? That’s a KPI. Right? So there is a, there is a method to the madness, if you have a process that might actually work, right? So you can’t just like go out and do lunches and it works. You got to say, okay, in the past, we’ve done 10 lunches, we’ve got results off two. So I need you to do this many more than that. That’s advice. But go do more lunches is not. Yeah, I agree.
I agree. The bottom line is to not be the normal, don’t, you know, don’t go and do what everyone else does. Because then you are just, you know, you’re just a bunch of ducks going into the pond. I mean, it’s ridiculous. So you know, figure out how you’re gonna stick out?
Well, let me let me bring this to the forefront cuz you know, Clint’s right, everybody’s spot on. But back in the day, the pharmaceutical companies, there were certain trends, and some of these guys now are managers, right? They started out that, you know, in the field, and the marketing was already done for them, or the drug was so new, that all they had to do was and that was the metric that they judged their reps by, because they were just getting in the door to feed them. Right. So there was some logic behind that if you were a mid level manager of a sales crew, that if you could spend your budget it men, at least something was going into the office. The problem is these guys were out drinking, piling up receipts, you know, because I had buddies who are doing it. And and they were like, Hey, I got to spend some money. And they they’re going here with their friends, not real doctors. And so there was this whole underbelly to that bullshit. But that day is long gone, right? You know, the, I mean, if you want to read a good book, it’s the one on Viagra, you know, the sales guy. And I know guys that were destroying rental cars, going through ditches because it gets stuck in traffic to just hit as many offices. And some of them fell into the hardware side of things. And the worst medical salesman on in my industry now is an ex pharmaceutical salesman, because they’re going to tell you about how great they were when all of that was just rolling. But they’re no service, no ability to close. You know, they’ve got all this past history, but they spend all that money. Now they’ve got a bunch of debt. Yeah, don’t get don’t get confused out there, guys, there was the old way of doing things. But unfortunately, you know, sales trends change, you know, your sales acumen has to come up. And what you did yesterday was yesterday, what you’re doing today is you know what you need to do to make that sale and keep that pipeline full.
It’s funny, you bring up this idea of taking one thing that worked for one person and trying to expand it in a terrible way. When I worked at Chase, they had this idea is called working the lobby, there was one banker who hated cold calling, right? So one banker in one branch would just grab everybody out of line and say, Hey, you know, why don’t you come sit down? Let’s just make sure all your information is correct. I’ll have someone else handle this transaction for us. And we don’t have to wait in line. And he did that instead of cold calling and he crushed. So then what they said, everybody has to do this now. Right? Yeah, it had been it had been beaten to hell, like before I before I gotten there. And so my first day in the branch after going through training was like three months of training and licensing and everything else. And then like cool, like, like, just go up and just and just ask them to come sit down with you. They’re gonna love it. And in my branch, we had all these people and they would come in and there’d be like this like gang of bankers in the Chase blue with a cheap ties and everything else like this. And they would just come in and see us and then like, cover their eye and beeline it for the teller line because they had been worked so much, right? And so then be like, Hey, why don’t you come sit down? Like, no, I’m good. All my information is correct. We don’t need to check it again. Like they knew all the talking points. And it was crazy. And so what what what had happened as normal, they had blown it to the point that we’re supposed to give every person we can, right. So then it’s like, cool, don’t wait in line, come over and sit down. And let’s look for something to sell you and then I’m gonna go handle this transaction for you. Because sometimes you’re busy. You don’t have someone there who can like handle the transaction, right? So I remember once this one person was like, if I have to come over there, and this person behind me gets done before I’m done because you know, this takes a long time as far as you’re concerned. I’m gonna be pissed. And I’m like, maybe you should stay in the line. That’s totally okay. But
I am not looking for an ass whooping today. Thank you very much.
It was crazy because like you would have these like business runners, you know, like like low level employees are just dropping off payroll or dropping off you know, like the deposit and stuff like this. Like they can’t make decisions on anything, but we’re supposed to grab every one of those people. And finally, we got this manager who was like, if you don’t have someone who’s going to handle this transaction, don’t bring somebody over to your desk. And then of course, we abused the crap out of that, because like, somebody would walk in and be like, hey, go to the bathroom real quick, because I don’t want to, I don’t want to sit down with this person. And then there wouldn’t be somebody who can who can handle the transaction for you. But talk about like, like one data point, just in space, right? Just like pull everybody over, You know, bring all the lunches, right, your data points have got to combine to something that makes sense, right, which is what Clint was talking about. Now, you know, if you’re, you know, any data point is good, but it isn’t leading you to something else, because you can cold call your aunt a lot and said, Man, I’m getting so many dials, but you know, you got to be you got to be real and honest with yourself, I would say.
So, John, what about you? What’s the worst advice you’ve been given?
My, my, my. Sorry, I have two. My my first one comes from I think, Gitomer, Jeffrey Gitomer, you know, oh, yeah, he’s written some sales books. And he’s got this thing he sales coffee or something like, like, like, the little green book is a Little Red Book, Little Red, Little Red Book, I’ve got it actually. Yeah, he’s got this thing of assuming the sale, which I ugh, I hate it, like so bad, because maybe he intends it well, but I think that most people are just like, okay, so that means we can, we can chat on Tuesday, and then after that, we’ll be good to go. Right. And like, you’re just taking the prospects ability away to like, act as an adult, and make their own decisions and just purely away from them. And, like, I hate it when it’s done to me, I and I, when I tried to use it before, you know, deciding I wasn’t going to use that it never worked out very well. So that’s one of my big pet peeves. And then and then the other one is, if you phrase your question so that way they only give you a yes when you ask for the business. They’re just so used to telling you Yes, they won’t even think about it. Oh, God, you kidding me? I hate that shit. So much.
Yeah. And I think that that leads to you getting drugged down the path for six months on a indecisive customer because they they can only say yes, but have no intention of actually doing it. Yeah,
Absolutely. Right. Because I mean, Well, okay, so you got the sale, but you didn’t get the close, you didn’t get the post sale. You can’t lock the deal in. So what’s a yes without a commitment? Because that’s all you did? You know? Sure, we can do that. And then click click. I mean, you never can get back in front of the prospect, because that’s all he is, at that point. Still a prospect. You haven’t sold anything.
Yeah, the smile and nod. Right? Oh, yeah, that sounds really good. Well, you kind of phrase the question so there’s only one real way to answer it. Unless they’re Clint, you know, and you’re getting hauled out of the office, right against your will. Because you’re hey Clint, you probably really want this. Let me show you what I really want. But everybody else is gonna smile and nod at you, you know,
Clint’s got that back door that leads out of his office, he opens it, the guy walks through. After you, shut the door and lock it right.
The back the back mat on the back porch is actually just like, like a small cover of like a, like a pit with, you know, spikes on the bottom of it? Well, yeah, let me show you where the sales guys exit. So that way, you don’t gotta deal with the crowd out in the front.
Let me introduce you to the broom closet.
Yeah, wow. But, you know, I think we’ve all you know, we’ve read all these books, and in many cases, other sales articles. And I do go back to one. You know, you know, one thing I heard once before, is if you can glean at least one tidbit out of some of this stuff, because a lot of times, you know, the bad is mixed in with a handful of good items that they’ve either come up with themselves or ripped off from somebody else, or refabricated. So don’t be afraid to dig in to what other people are saying, but don’t drink the Kool Aid ad nauseum. Right? You know, glean from what other people are saying, both the good and the bad of their equation, right? Because if you walk away with one item to put in your tool bag, you’re just diversifying your acumen. And then, yeah, get out there and practice a little bit. And if it doesn’t work, then throw that that one away and go pull another one out, right?
Yeah, I’d say I see a lot on LinkedIn, especially in sales books. But there’s always, if anything starts with this, do these three, do these 5, 10 things and you will, blah, blah, blah. You already know it’s horseshit, right? Oh, now, I saw something the other day where it was if you do these three things on your daily routine, you will become better at this. Now that’s a true statement. If you do those things, and they happen to work for you, but there’s so many variables involved in all of those things, that it’s, there’s or there’s nothing worse than being lied to on advice before you even start it. Right?
Or if you hear that you’ll never have to close again, right? Yeah.
Never follow up with a prospect again, just don’t call. Never,
Never call if you ever hear the word never again, that’s a bold faced lie, right? You know.
And there’s a guy, he’s, he’s always in my LinkedIn feed, I keep meaning to delete him, but I get so frustrated, I guess, I just kind of push them away. But every day, he does some kind of sales thing. And he’s always walking down the street, or he’s always got some roleplay that he’s doing right. And he’ll always say, if you do this, I promise you will close every deal. Like, well, hand me the Golden Nugget, because you know, like, and then you listen to it. It’s like, dude, if I did that, I wouldn’t close. I would lose all of my customers, you know. And, and the thing is, is he’s got tens of thousands of people following them and listening to this garbage. And it just, it hurts me to know that that’s out there, knowing full well that it’s total trash. But people love that clickbait that, that motivational like, oh, if I just do that, I’ll win today. And then you fail. It’s like, Okay, oh, but he told me tomorrow if I do this, I’ll win again today. And then you lose this. And it’s like, you just going down this rabbit hole of shit. You know,
Somebody yesterday, I was networking with someone and like, Hey, what are your thoughts on Gary Vee? And I was like, I think he’s a motivational speaker for certain people. And they’re like, well, you don’t think he’s a good salesperson. And I was like, I know he’s not a good salesperson. he’s a he’s a marketer, right? And there’s a difference in those two skill sets. And they’re like, like, well, don’t you like the stuff he talks about? And I was like, No, I think he’s actually pretty toxic to like, small business and startups, you know, this whole idea that you have to hustle 24/7/365 and all of this stuff, because what it does is it just kind of leads into the, I’m feeling busy, so therefore I have to be winning, as opposed to I’m being productive, you know, and, you know, being intentional. There’s a lot of bad, bad, bad, bad advice out there. Yeah,
I mean, there’s definitely people out there given sales advice and training that are motivators like self motivating people, and they call it sales training. Hey, look, it’s you know, if you if you need that in your life, if you need the motivation, you know, if you’re in that corner of the spectrum that just thrives off that, hey, there’s nothing wrong with it, just don’t take it to heart, you know, use it for the tool that it is, which is motivation, not not sales tactics, right. And, you know, everything, you know, hits everybody a certain way. I mean, you know, I kind of always go to sales training to the, to the old, like, old school, Old Testament, yell at you preacher on the pulpit. I get way more out of that guy than a Joel Osteen, which I like. He’s a good guy, but he’s all motivation, right? It’s 30 minutes of motivation, two minutes of Scripture, I don’t get anything out of it. So if I’m trying to learn a subject, right, I need the professor I need the, the guy that’s worked through the weeds, the guy that probably came up through sales, not the, not the guy that bought into a program to sell something right? Or, you know, just cuz you write a book, guys, if you just because you write a freakin book does not mean shit, anybody can publish a damn book, it doesn’t mean anything. It really doesn’t.
Well, Clint is not getting a copy of my book. So…
If it’s good, I’ll read it.
What a moving target that would be.
I mean, but you know, that’s the thing is like, I’ve got books upon books of people, oh, if you’re in sales, you’ve got to read this, you’ve got to read, this is the greatest thing. And I make it through, I don’t even make it through the first chapter. I’m like, God, this is shit. And somebody thought this was the best book on the planet. And I just think, you know, Hey, man, if it works for you, and you’re successful, but you know, the fact that you bought this book, and you’re, you’re leaning into this book for advice probably means you’re doing something wrong. You know. And there’s other ways out there.
Well, I think that a lot of what I dig into is time management. books like Getting Things Done and looking at people who have really a process that they’re trying to expose you to given all the levels of distraction that can occur in a sales role. Because a lot of times you’re out there flying by yourself, making your own moves and doing things on your own with the home base that you report back to or maybe you own, you know, the process, you know, the company that you’re working for. So I find a lot of that information. Very useful once you get into a rhythm of success in sales. Because a lot of times you can get lazy pretty quickly unless you put that in gear along with your sales process. So I have found I’ve found that to be helpful on my end, just just speaking for myself.
And I’ve got, there’s one name that popped up in my head a minute ago. Ian Altman, if you guys ever heard of that guy, so he’s got a book called Side by Side Selling, I think that’s the name of it. It’s, it’s a very so so I’ve actually said in a conference here, right, where people have hired him to come in and, and speak to leadership, right, and how to, you know, do better sales. And he went through this whole spiel. And he talked about how he did this one deal, right? He was ahead of his time, and he did this one deal. And it became a, you know, a millionaire and selling. But he always had the only the one story to revert back to, and I noticed this a lot, too. And some of the guys you pull out of combat, and they become these trainers for CEOs how to motivate your troops and stuff like that. They always revert back to the one story that they have, right? Well, that story is relevant a couple times, maybe. But there’s so many situations, so many variables. And in the way Ian always explained this stuff. It was really good information. But that’s all it was, there was no personality in it. There was no How do you deal with the customer that tells you to go f yourself in the first five minutes? How do you deal with that, right? Because that’s an option. And everybody’s always so focused on, hey, if you do my process, you win. But what happens if I do the process and you lose? How do you handle it from there, because that’s part of the equation, that’s part of all the stuff. So, you know, I look at those books. I’m like, Okay, this is a, this is a screwdriver in my toolbox that I can now use. Thank, you know, but I’ve also got four other screwdrivers for when that screw type, you know, is in front of me that I need to use it.
So I you know, I jumped on my phone, because, you know, I’m notorious for not remembering movies. That’s why I can watch Pulp Fiction 60 times and still enjoy it. But um, you know, the first thing that pops up on my phone is How to Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. Then the next one’s the Dictionary of Body Language, the 48 Laws of Power, you know, business to retail, yeah, Business Storytelling, and that’s, for Dummies. Measure What Matters. Yeah. All Marketers Tell Stories and are Liars. And that’s by Seth Seth Godin, Never Split the Difference, Winning Body Language in Sales Professionals. So there’s not all there’s a lot of filler in every one of those books. But inside there is something that these people felt compelled enough to write a book and spend some time on. So if you’re not reading, you know, and you look at Warren Buffett, you look at any of the greats out there, they’re gonna they’re gonna revert back to how often you read, and what are you reading? And it’s not to say that you don’t read a lot of stuff that’s gonna mimic other things. But this redundancy and this constantly feeding the big thing between your ears, right? Then practice, right, you got to get out and, you know, make, you know, go through the actions. So yeah.
Well, I mean, that kind of goes to the theory of, you know, like a drug addict, right? You want to stop being a drug addict, then stop hanging out with druggies, right, like, move on, get out of the atmosphere, you’ve got to get out of that. And if you’re losing sales constantly, if you’re constantly losing, and you don’t know how to get out of the hole, look at what you’re doing. And look who you’re surrounded by, right? Because it is, and if you surround yourself with knowledge and information and power that’s winning, then you’re probably going to fall into that, that trap versus the failure side. And I found myself in that many times. You know, I listen to somebody because of their age or their experience, and, and I think, oh, man, this guy kills it kills and kills it. But then you really dig into the weeds and Okay, he’s at a 3% hit ratio, and he’s lost the company million dollars, but he sold, you know, $700 million. So on the sales side, it looks good. But then you look at the backdoor information. It’s like, oh, man, look at all the work that guy had to do, look at all the wheeling and dealing he did just to make nothing. And on the on the surface, it looks great. So you got it. You know, and then you got the guy in there too that sells four or five jobs. So it makes the company millions of dollars. He only sells four or five a year. That’s the guy I want to be around that guy works the least. He works the easiest. And he makes everybody money. And he’s probably the silent guy. You know, that’s the people I want to be around.
Exactly. That is such a good point. Clint. I’m so glad you said that because it is vital who you hang around. Um, you are here.
This came out today and I sent it to my staff. It’s called Warren Buffett says four choices in life that separate doers from dreamers. And it’s a pretty easy to the number one, pick your friends wisely, and you guys can dig it up and read it. This was in E! Today, number two, go to bed a little smarter each day. Number three, improve your communication skills.
That’s what we’re doing.
And number four is saying no more often. Yeah, for sure. Yep. And no, no, he goes on with an explanation behind each one of those. But that was just today’s tidbit. That got me in the right groove to get through my day. And yeah, I mean, those are the things that you do consistently. You reach out, learn something new every day. And then you know, and then ask yourself how you did that day. Right? And what did you learn?
Yeah, yeah. What can you take away?
I’d love to, I’d love to switch this conversation. Now that we’ve got that out of the way too. What’s the best best thing?
I was just gonna say that? I love it.
What do you got Clint?
Oh, no, go around the horn.
Maybe that’s the issue first. I’m the host. Oh, oh. Okay. So So Clint’s now an S, so he doesn’t have to go first. Al, best sales advice you’ve ever gotten?
Um, go for the No.
Go for the No. Okay.
That’s a good one.
Guys. I do. Sorry.
Gotta close the deal. Hold on.
Surgeries on on hold, because
We can all, we can all just be quiet and we can hear the overflow of Al. Are you serious Al? Oh my god. Okay. Al’s been muted. Okay, he’s back. Talk about a high maintenance co host. Good lord. You gotta unmute buddy.
Now I’ll, so all the know, I do like to go for the No, that was that is one of the most solid piece of advice. It’s okay to get. You don’t have to win every deal that is solid man. I will tell you, for me, it is been the personality driven side of you’re not wrong. Whatever personality you are, you’re not wrong, you’re just different than somebody else. And that is probably been, for me, the biggest driver of me being, you know, typically come off as a complete asshole, you know, to some people and realizing that realizing that I came off that way and having no clue. Right? That was, that was huge advice for me and somebody saying, Okay, this is where you’re at. This is where you fall on the personality spectrum. Not you’re not wrong, but also that person opposite to you is also not wrong. And that was just I mean, talk about a mind explosion for me right to be able to deal with people. And, you know, because because what I wanted to do is surround myself constantly with people like me. And guess what, that’s the worst. That’s the worst people that I could surround myself with. Because all you got to do is fight with each other. Right? And learn how to put those personalities in play and work with work within your team and, you know, get customers of all shapes and sizes, man I I mean, that was absolutely the best advice anybody ever gave me. Wow.
Okay. If just real quick, if you’ve gotten good sales advice or bad sales advice, text it to us. We’ll talk about it. I want to be shows 817-345-7449 Miss Nan, what do you got for good advice?
Now, of course, Jesus Christ is my absolute favorite life coach. Yeah, I, life coach ever, because I mean, he just had a servant’s spirit. And I just think that is the best. The human. Well, Christ wasn’t human. But Zig Ziglar is like the coolest man on the planet to me. He, I’m trying to remember exactly. And you can get everything you sorry, let me read it because I’ll forget it. You can get everything in life you want. If you will just help Enough, enough other people get what they want. And that is, if I’m ever successful, that’s what I’ve done. And I haven’t, I can’t say I’m like, amazing. I’ve done it a million times. But when I look back, that was the thing that helped me do well. Well.
So that quote had a big impact on me. Like we were, we were all together at a sales conference. And like, I was like, Okay, cool. I need to change what I’m doing because it was a huge moment. But uh,
What was that when I was at the bar texting you guys to come join me?
Yeah, pretty much. Yeah,
I was I was running out of that room. I was like, wow, this is this. This is where I need to be.
So yes, so so my, I mean, all of these things you guys have talked about have been huge things for me, but like arguably the biggest thing is that it doesn’t need to make sense to me why they do want to buy or why they don’t want to buy because it’s their purchase, right? Because I have talked myself out of some deals in the past because I’m like, this just doesn’t make any sense. And they’re like, oh, okay, yeah, I trust you. This probably doesn’t make sense and then they leave. But like, value is is is in the value is in the eye of the prospect, right? If it makes sense to them, and they’re willing to pay for it, shut up and do it. Right. Like, and by that same token, it doesn’t have to make sense to me why they’re telling me No, right? I need to qualify to make sure it’s a good No, not like a smokescreen, or some bullshit objection or something else like this, or stall. But like, once it’s a real no, you know, like, you know, if I try to bump heads with that, they just dig themselves deeper into that trench, you know, that they’re already in, you know, so it kind of plays into that go for know that that I was talking about, and you know, that we all do a lot, you know, but um, it doesn’t have to make sense to me.
Can I break that down for a minute, psychologically, because it’s really interesting that we all four chose what we chose. Mm hmm. You know, as our is our favorite because Nan’s was very motivational, right? Imagine that the S needs motivation. Doc’s was, I need a no, because typically, that’s what I can’t handle in my personality, as an I, I can’t handle the no’s, I need everybody to like me. And for to overcome that big fear was, Hey, I got to get it once I accept that no’s, okay, hey, I’s are powerful man. And then John, that to you, you know, and that’s, it doesn’t have to make sense on paper, it just needs to make sense for somebody else on paper. Like, imagine that you guys all pick that that’s, that’s pretty crazy. And me, you know, headstrong, personality driven, you know, I have that fear of, you know, not being the dominant one, when I can let an S be the dominant one in her own, or his own situation, right? Like, it’s amazing. That’s how that that alone tells you how much personality drives that everyday life.
And so I’m working at the bank, this is 2012. And so, CDs or CD rates are terrible, right? And just pure trash. It’s like, maybe 2% for five years or something like this. I mean, pretty, pretty low. But the mark, they’re not.
They’re not any better now, but go ahead. Okay. So, so
So, so at the time, we can, they’re worse, these, these, these fixed annuities and variable annuities, you know, they gave you some market access, you had bigger returns, and we had some that had some guarantees on him. And I would call these people in, and I, and I’d be like, Man, you’re probably not happy with that with that rate of return. And they’re like, Well, no, I would love it to be more than like, well, let’s get you over here. And they’d be like, Well, I’m not really sure that I that I want to lock my money up for seven years for, you know, three and a half percent. And I’m like, why wouldn’t you do that? You know, and then they leave and I would just, like, walk around, like kicking rocks, like what an idiot, you know, but, um, you know, it doesn’t have to make sense to me, it needs to make sense to them. And, you know, if we don’t qualify, you know, around, hey, if you’re going to lock your money up for longer, what kind of rate of return would you be looking for? You know, and asking those kinds of questions, I didn’t have those questions in my arsenal, because it was like, this makes sense. You’re an idiot if you don’t buy it, which did not serve me very well.
So that can i segue that for a second because there’s something that I always want to talk about. And and it kind of goes with putting all this together but you know, I’ve got a lot of customers sometimes that will, you know, just because it makes sense to them doesn’t make it make it right either in the industry in what you do. And and construction is huge, I would guess in the medical field is probably as big, John in that, you know, technology CRM field, like somebody may want something and you sell that something, but you know, it’s not the right fit and you know, down the road that they’re not going to be happy with that product. Because you’re the professional at the end of the day, right? There is a time to make sure that they have all the knowledge and there is a time to turn the job down. That will only gain you a bad reputation. You know as much as you want to sell man as much as you want the $30,000 po that you know you don’t get on a daily basis. There is time to turn that shit down for your own benefit down the road. For your own sanity for your own professionalism. Like I have to do it all the time. You know you want this. I don’t put in shit jobs. I don’t want to push it and ship jobs in I don’t want to be known for that guy. You know what gift to give it to my competitor let him do it that way and let his name become trash in the market. And yeah, it’s a 20 year process. You know for that to ever maybe ever show up. And maybe I’ll never do business with that guy ever again. But you know, it there’s a to me man there is a time you got to get out there just is.
And you you lead it to me what you just said his reputation is everything and the honest approach about what you think about your own product and your own ability centered around that product. Because if I’m using something or taking in front of one of my surgeons one of my Doc’s, I want to know when this thing screws up, where’s it break down at, and I asked the manufacturer that so that I can you know some doctors, they’re a little heavy handed some guys are a little too light. Every everything has a fit, but not it doesn’t fit everybody. So you you have to know your product line. And there’s where you couple, knowing a lot about your industry, how you, how you sell them becomes a component of the value that this customer is going to see down the road from what you sold, so that you can come back in and reengage for the next sale. Because, you know, a lot of industries may be one and done. But I think there’s there’s many that are continually it’s a it’s a relationship, you develop the carries you down the road for other deals.
Yeah, and, you know, recent recently, this popped up in a conversation I was having with another, I guess, competitor of mine, you know, another colleague, and the guy said, Yeah, you know, we had a meeting with one of Elon Musk’s companies, you know, and he was building a huge Tesla factory in, in Las Vegas or something like that. So, you know, he, somebody had filled his head, you know, over a drink or over some, you know, somewhere in a conference that you need these type of pumps in your factory. And the guy selling the pumps that look, that doesn’t make any sense. You know, that guy. Yeah, that’s the top of the line pump, but you’re in, you don’t have any humidity, you don’t have this, you don’t have all these elements, it actually makes no sense. It actually becomes more efficient. But because this guy had in his head, an Elon Musk, you know, I think one of the brightest minds on the fucking planet. You know, I love watching what he’s doing. He doesn’t know everything about everything, you are still your, your, you know what we always say your doctor in your field, you are the professional in your field. And sometimes there’s a time to stand up. So you know, just talking to this guy. Oh, yeah. So I said, What do you do, you know, oh, man, we sold them, we sell them whatever you want. It’s Elon musk. And I thought you know that that is one that I would probably lose a sale. But I’d push back and you know, there because it’s unnecessary. It’s a complete, you know, and they, they took all the old equipment, we’re talking millions of dollars in equipment, right? They took all the old stuff, they scrapped it, they bought millions of dollars of this new stuff, because somebody filled his ear. And and what my advice was to this guy was, Why didn’t you fill them, fill his ears with the right stuff? You know, like, if you were so sure if your gut says it, you know, and it’s it’s tough, right? Because part of me says, okay, you’re buying, I’ll sell it.
I’m selling, I’m selling.
And and I and I get that in and don’t hold me, you know, don’t put my feet to the fire on this because I get that side. And I’m not saying that, you know, haven’t done some similar things in the past. But at some point when it’s so wrong against what you know, is right. You got it, you got to you got to let the people now, right. It’s just the right thing to do.
I just ask, right in those kinds of situations, hey, you’re saying this. So far, everything we’ve talked about doesn’t really indicate that you need anything at that level? Are you sure this is what you want to do? I’m sure right, then I can check that box that I’ve done everything that I possibly can, right in that moment. You know, I but I do agree with you though, right? Because sometimes you you have to step away just because it’s, it’s gonna be bad, right? Like, like a guy I’m talking to the other day, we’re, you know, he’s looking for a closer we’re talking about it. And I’m going to build a process and everything else. And he was like, Well, we’ve got a good process. And I was like, Well, here’s the deal. If I can’t have any influence over the process, I’m not the right guy for you. He’s like, Oh, yeah, you can have total control over the process. But it’s really good. We probably don’t need to do anything about it. And I was like, How do you know? And he goes well, because because we’re just killing it over here on the sales? And I’m like, then why would you get a closer? Why? Why are we talking at all, you know? And so like, like, we kind of had to kind of pull it out of him. And then finally, I was like, man, I don’t think that we’re gonna be able to work together. And he’s like, why? And I was like, I, you know, that the processes I build work, if you already have one, you know, it probably has some stuff in there that doesn’t match up with my sales philosophy, which is totally okay. But if I can’t do it, end to end, it’s not going to go very well. And I’m not confident enough to like, even send you an invoice for it. And he was like, he was like, Well, let me think about it. You know, can you send some information over? And I said, I don’t know why I would do that.
Yeah, I mean, it’s a good, you know, that’s one of those situations that you know, to my point, talking about, it’s like, there’s been times I’ve faced been faced with that numerous times where it’s like, we want to hire you to do this and they’re handing me this, you know, so to speak golden ticket, but I look at, you know, six chess moves ahead of what the fallout is what? And I’ll tell you this guy’s in every sales conversation I’ve ever had in my life. I’ve always thought about the fallout. You can’t ever forget about that.
And I mean something. Clint, is that easier or harder when your pipelines full? No,
it’s definitely harder. That’s a good question. And I know you’re being a little sarcastic, but it is it is a good question because I’ve, I’m dealing with some of that right now. My pipeline is not full. And I’m dealing with some of that right now where people are wanting to hand us jobs, if you’ll just do this, and I say, Man, you know, sometimes it’s too good to be true, right? And you look and you’re like, there’s no way I can get there. And they dangle that carrot out there enough. And it’s just, you know, people outside of your, maybe your team, maybe a president of your company, or CEO or whatever, regional vice presidents like this, why wouldn’t you do this job, but you know, too much information, right? And you just say, this is not the right move. Please trust me on this, you know, I’ve had those conversations. So yeah, it is easier when your pipelines full, but it’s also the right thing to do when it’s not, because and when you when you have your pipeline short, and your revenue short, the last thing you want to fucking do is write anything down or take a loss on anything, everything you sell up to that point has to has to break you even take, you know, put the lights on feed the you know, feed to feed the employees keep the doors open, keep your brick and mortar lease paid, or make you money. Like I get those but to take a loss when your pipeline short, it is not a it’s just a bad revenue, it’s a bad move.
You know, along those lines, you know, we, we’re all connected, right? We’re on LinkedIn, we’re I mean, we’re on these social media platforms, and everything else like this, everything is so connected. You’re, we all have these personal brands, right of like who we are and how we operate in our zones. And because everything’s connected, it’s not that difficult if you work in a big company to find someone and be like, hey, how is this guy really, you know, and to dig in and figure that figure that stuff out. And so if you’re not acting with that utmost level of integrity, it’s going to come back on you eventually, right? It might not be in this role, but it might be handicapping you and getting like that sales leadership role, or something else along those lines. So you have to be this that follows you around now, I mean, the world is tiny in the grand scheme.
Well, it does come back to the quality that you want to provide. Absolutely. And if you’re, if you’re going to stand by the sale that you’ve made, and the purchase that your prospect is, you know, that they’ve taken on, you’re gonna have to provide some satisfaction down the road. And unbeknownst to the buyer, you know, if the buyer is wrong, then the satisfaction isn’t gonna come because they’re gonna see it in the end result. So, you know, think with the end in mind, how does this you know, it’s, it’s okay to be excited about it. But if you’re excited about a shitty deal, that’s just putting money in your pocket, but not servicing your client? What does that look like in six months? In a year? In two years? Where are you at?
Yeah, cuz cuz let’s talk about the situation where, you know, the two, the two options, do you want to say six months from now I told you so. And still be the guy that sold the job. And all they have is negative connotation over every word you’re about to say? Or do you want to be the guy that did the right thing and backed out and said, Hey, you know, this isn’t for us and and be the same guy and say, I told you so. compassionately. Oh, yeah. Now next time. Now for life, you’ll know that I did you, right?
I know, I know what side I want to be on. Yeah.
And along those same lines, right. Um, don’t don’t shit on the other person, or the other people that they’re talking to. Right. Like, I mean, it’s one of the worst things you can do anyway. But like, if you’re, if you’re building this wall, between you and the other person, because they feel like they can’t even have a conversation with you, because you’re gonna belittle, their choices and their options and stuff like this, they’re not going to talk to you, right? So, you know, if you can put them into into a position to where they shit on their current provider or something else like that, then that’s totally fine. But it should never be you.
Always play the long game. Yep. I know that play the long game.
And and because if you know, and this happens a lot of times whenever I see it in my industry, where somebody who’s unsatisfied, and they’re, you know, there’s some grumblings I should have and that guy in this guy, you know, either don’t say anything, or if you get an opportunity to say, Hey, I’m sorry, it worked worked out poorly this time. Normally, you know, they’re spot on and what they do, you know, just and leave it at that you don’t have to build them up, but don’t tear them down and then step in with how should we proceed, you know, knowing what we know now about this process,
Because there’s always there’s always the chance that you screw the same freakin thing up. Yeah.
Or if you do that, okay, but then also your client or your your prospect, here’s you run your competitor down and thinks what’s, what’s this guy gonna say about me if this goes south, right, or if I’m unable to carry this project for me mind all the way to fruition. What’s jackass gonna think about me? And how much is that is he gonna say around town, so be aware that you’re, you’re just your client or your prospect is not a dumb ass right? What comes out of your mouth he may be listening to. So choose your words carefully.
Along those same lines, when when, when I see people who just like show up, and they just say, you know what, we’re gonna kill it, you know, like, like, we’re gonna blow this out of the water for you. And like, you haven’t done a good job of qualifying, you know, and you see this a lot on like social selling, you know, someone’s like, Hey, I’m looking for this. And then like, everyone’s in there, Oh, I know, a guy. He’s the best. He’s the best, you know, I like he was the best for you. That’s fantastic. But then you see these people? Like, like the actual provider, they hop in into these, like DMs and chat threads and comments, and they’re like, Oh, yeah, we’re gonna kill it. How do you know? You can do it this same exact way that the other person did. And then you now have to prove it, that you’re better than this other person. Whereas if you could go and have a conversation, like, I’m sorry, that didn’t work out. I’ve heard nothing but good things. What didn’t you like?
Yeah, yeah. You know, I’ll tell you. And it’s funny, because here recently, you know, from the buyer standpoint of myself, like we’ve used a, we use the company recently that said, you know, back six months ago, absolutely, we can do this. But we got to, we got to use this product line. And I’m like, hey, look, that product line doesn’t match what we need, right? I’ve already talked to the engineer, I’ve already got us approved. We’re a go. Trust me, trust me, trust me. While I like the enthusiasm and their number helped us get the job. We qualified it in our, you know, contract language that said, Okay, we’re using all of this stuff, right? So as soon as the job got approved, they said, Oh, yeah, by the way, that equipment, we can’t use any of that shit. And it’s like, Okay, well, it’s a $30,000 change, you know, like that, we knew that we told you that they told you that they told us that it would work. And so there was a lot of, there’s a lot of stuff around it that you know, went bad, but I’ll give it to this. I’ll give it to the company that did this. They said, You know what, we screwed up. We are willing to make everything right. And yes, it’s gonna, it’s gonna hurt, it’s gonna kill us, we’ll take the $30,000 hit. And we’ll make it right for you. Because that what we did, we promise you the world and we you know, under delivered. So they made it right. And literally, they provided us with everything that was supposed to be done on the job for the price that they gave us. And, and look, I know that that hurt them. I know did but I wasn’t going to take the hit. It wasn’t my you know, it’s not my hit to take. We make mistakes, too, that we take hits on all the time. But I will tell you this, that the honesty and the character that that guy, you know, showed us during the whole process. I don’t want to do business with anybody else. Because of that. So you know, doing the right thing is is hugely important in everything you do.
And yes, we exactly. We’re at time.
Like, yep, I can do it in the wrap up.
Yeah, absolutely. Let’s because Clint’s drinking. Al, what do you got last last words, nuggets. Anything else?
Well, back to Clint owning the mistakes that occur in your process. don’t have too many of them, obviously, fix them as you go along. But if you’re in front of a prospect, a client, you’re doing business and something does go awry. Have the nuts, be the man, step up and own it? And then start like hell working to fix it as best you can. And and I think, because nothing’s I mean, there are ups and downs in every sales process. So
yeah, you know, I don’t even think it’s about being the man it thinks about being the adult. Right? There you go, even better. Like, like, like, like own own, Own your mistakes on the good things, because nobody gives a shit about your excuses like nobody on the planet, like, at all. So, Clint, what do you got nuggets? last words?
Yeah, yeah. So you know, good advice, bad advice. There’s a lot of both out there, right. And I think that it all has to be tailored to fit what you do and your industry, your personality, who you’re dealing with. On the other side of the table, there’s so many variables to all the tips and tricks and all this stuff that you have to formulate your own process. And I’m even talking about your own process within a company’s process or team’s process. Everything just doesn’t tailor fit everybody off the shelf, right? You got to tailor it to you. Don’t, don’t be afraid to to buck back and show you know, if you’ve got a reason that it doesn’t work for you. Have the information prove it. I think that everybody has their gut feeling, especially in the personality spectrum. You know, if it feels bad for me, I’m a gut driven person. I just dump it right. If it feels good, I run with it. And I’ll make the best out of each situation, because that’s who I am. But, you know, somebody like John was fact driven. You know, he has his own gut feeling right? Because the facts aren’t there and it doesn’t align on paper. That’s still a gut feeling. You know, whether it’s driven that way or not. You know, it’s still has feelings. And we and we all have those, right. So if it feels good guys make make the best with it, if it feels bad, it’s probably fucking bad and get the hell out.
That’s good. Miss Nan, what you got?
Noisy animals, um, the biggest thing that I listening to everything we’ve said, um, just don’t be a robot, you know, treat other others the way you want to be sold to, or treated, basically, you know, if you go in there with only your motivation, only what you want. Everything we said, is debunks that that’s, that’s just not gonna work. Don’t be a robot, don’t listen to what everyone else is telling you. Figure out your personality and the person you were what we talked about week after week, how important it is to know who you are, and who you’re talking to.
Okay, um, I would say that, like, it’s not enough to just study this stuff without studying yourself, right, you have to have a level of self awareness so that we really understand how you’re coming off to others, because, you know, you can understand that these are dominant and stuff like this, and you know, they want to do their do their things, but until you know, how you’re going to react under that pressure remedy me you know, because sometimes there is pressure there, versus you know, the the ongoing chattiness of an I or something else like this, you know, you have to you have to know yourself well enough. So that way, you can actually run your process in the moment. Along those same lines, there’s so much information out there, the information itself is essentially worthless, you have to put in the reps, you have to have to have to. And, you know, you have to do it enough that you can do it as yourself, right. For a long time. I was just trying to sound like, you know, my coach, my business partner, and these people that I’ve seen on stages and stuff like this, and it wasn’t working for me, because it wasn’t me. There was this odd, you know, imposter syndrome going on, because, because I wasn’t communicating as me and it showed up because people were saying that I was different on the phone than I was in my conversations with them. And so I take that to heart. So put in the reps, do it until you can do it in your sleep and it sounds like you and you know, you can do it in front of people who know you really well.
Or drink real heavily. That also works.
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